using "Nitrogen" as a deal breaker
- Thread starter GumbyJarvis
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Dealers try to sell nitrogen, paint sealant, fabric protectant, leather conditioner.
Do you know what these things have in common? They are all INVISABLE!!
I don't buy things at a car shop I can not SEE! My wife sold cars decades ago and the "polyglycoat sealant" they sold was almost never even put on the car...just added to the addendum sticker. Even if it was applied...it was at best a 20min wipe on-wipe off wax job.
Do you know what these things have in common? They are all INVISABLE!!
I don't buy things at a car shop I can not SEE! My wife sold cars decades ago and the "polyglycoat sealant" they sold was almost never even put on the car...just added to the addendum sticker. Even if it was applied...it was at best a 20min wipe on-wipe off wax job.
Strategy: Vehicle MSRP = $20,000
Dealer Profit Package = $2,000
Vehicle sticker price is now $22,000
So, if they're lucky you start negotiating off a $22,000 price instead of a $20,000 price. If you still want to do business with these, as stated earlier, crooks then tell them the starting point for negotiation is $20,000 because you will not pay a dime for anything that was not on the car when it left the factory.
I guess I got lucky four years ago. The Mazda dealer that sold me my Mazda3 did none of that. I'm a bit surprised since they are the only Mazda dealership in this area. I guess they must want repeat customers.
Dealer Profit Package = $2,000
Vehicle sticker price is now $22,000
So, if they're lucky you start negotiating off a $22,000 price instead of a $20,000 price. If you still want to do business with these, as stated earlier, crooks then tell them the starting point for negotiation is $20,000 because you will not pay a dime for anything that was not on the car when it left the factory.
I guess I got lucky four years ago. The Mazda dealer that sold me my Mazda3 did none of that. I'm a bit surprised since they are the only Mazda dealership in this area. I guess they must want repeat customers.
Originally Posted By: MWisBest
Originally Posted By: ejes
I can't remember where it is, but I just read a study where study showed, if I remember correctly, that regular air eventually seeps into the tire over time and dilutes whatever percentage of Nitrogen is in your tire.
Interesting, I had been under the impression that the opposite is true: the more you need to top up your tires with regular air, the higher the concentration of nitrogen gets. If oxygen is the problem and 'leaks out' like the nitrogen believers claim, and the nitrogen doesn't do that, then over time your tires eventually become more and more nitrogen-concentrated anyway.
When I got new tires last year I needed to add air fairly often. Now they're very stable, but of course correlation does not imply causation.
I should correct myself and say that O2 seeps back in and it has to do with certain percentages of both; not regular air. Both of these links talk about the physics behind it.
http://www.getnitrogen.org/why/
http://www.branick.com/Nitrogen - What you Need to Know/Optimal Purity.pdf
Originally Posted By: ejes
I can't remember where it is, but I just read a study where study showed, if I remember correctly, that regular air eventually seeps into the tire over time and dilutes whatever percentage of Nitrogen is in your tire.
Interesting, I had been under the impression that the opposite is true: the more you need to top up your tires with regular air, the higher the concentration of nitrogen gets. If oxygen is the problem and 'leaks out' like the nitrogen believers claim, and the nitrogen doesn't do that, then over time your tires eventually become more and more nitrogen-concentrated anyway.
When I got new tires last year I needed to add air fairly often. Now they're very stable, but of course correlation does not imply causation.
I should correct myself and say that O2 seeps back in and it has to do with certain percentages of both; not regular air. Both of these links talk about the physics behind it.
http://www.getnitrogen.org/why/
http://www.branick.com/Nitrogen - What you Need to Know/Optimal Purity.pdf
Originally Posted By: Trav
Friggin crooks, that's all there is to it.
+1000
"[censored]"
Friggin crooks, that's all there is to it.
+1000
"[censored]"
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Wow. I'd be out the door of that dealership so fast their heads would spin.
I don't buy dealer extras. If a dealer cannot sell me the car I want without them I walk. With the competition among the many dealers of the same models where I live, they normally don't want to let you walk away. Nitrogen in tires is a huge ripoff IMHO.
When I was working transport refrigeration for a living we leak tested with dry nitrogen out of a bottle sized like the big oxygen bottle for our oxy/acetylene cutting-welding rig. It was the cheapest of all the compressed products we used.
I can only imagine how long one of those bottles would have lasted inflating simple auto tires. I suspect years!
Huge profit center. Just like dealers that surcharge for pinstripping, window etching etc., they are automatically off my shopping list.
I can only imagine how long one of those bottles would have lasted inflating simple auto tires. I suspect years!
Huge profit center. Just like dealers that surcharge for pinstripping, window etching etc., they are automatically off my shopping list.
Caution - sarcasm ahead: Pure Nitrogen would be an advantage in some situations - for example storing a brand new vehicle for say 300 years. It's likely there'd be less corrosion of the wheels and the tires would be in better condition - if they still held air (oops Nitrogen) that is. Another example would be shipping a vehicle to Mars. The tenths (or hundredths) of a gram saved might be important.
In the real world, compressed air works fine. Dried compressed air is a little better - we don't need or want water in there. And Nitrogen is fine too.
A reasonable price for compressed Nitrogen is zero dollars. The shop is saving on supplying and servicing a compressor by using a tank of Nitrogen instead - which might even be cost effective. Good for them.
A charge for Nitrogen is like "dealer extra profit". As one of my more colourful friends used to say, "Don't eat that son, that's b.....t."
In the real world, compressed air works fine. Dried compressed air is a little better - we don't need or want water in there. And Nitrogen is fine too.
A reasonable price for compressed Nitrogen is zero dollars. The shop is saving on supplying and servicing a compressor by using a tank of Nitrogen instead - which might even be cost effective. Good for them.
A charge for Nitrogen is like "dealer extra profit". As one of my more colourful friends used to say, "Don't eat that son, that's b.....t."
Up there with the Dealership logo,
Thankfully, all I've ever had to deal
With are the "bubble" style decals that come off easy
Never had an issue with the vinyl decal style, due to never having a time where one was on there.
I see used cars that have about 2-6 "dealer" decals on them that have accumulated over the years.
Give me a shirt or something I won't wear, don't put that crud on my paint though.
Dealers are always going to be shady, regardless of on what.
I have seen advertisements for "free XM radio for a year"
Looking at the sticker, "premium dealer upgrade audio" is listed and suspiciously, the same cost as a year of XM Radio or more
Thankfully, all I've ever had to deal
With are the "bubble" style decals that come off easy
Never had an issue with the vinyl decal style, due to never having a time where one was on there.
I see used cars that have about 2-6 "dealer" decals on them that have accumulated over the years.
Give me a shirt or something I won't wear, don't put that crud on my paint though.
Dealers are always going to be shady, regardless of on what.
I have seen advertisements for "free XM radio for a year"
Looking at the sticker, "premium dealer upgrade audio" is listed and suspiciously, the same cost as a year of XM Radio or more
Has to be because you are near an army base. For real
AZjeff
$50 Site Donor 2023
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Stop worrying about line item charges and focus on the bottom line, out the door price.
Most important reply in this thread. Everybody gets all butt-hurt over the profit centers dealers come up with, get over it, it's how they play the game. An informed buyer knows before he sets foot on the lot what his OTD number is and what his trade is worth.
The Toyota dealer where we bought the RAV4 had:
Window tint: $400
Security stickers: $300
and now they install blinking 3rd brake gizmo for $400
Who cares? Bottom line is all that matters.
Stop worrying about line item charges and focus on the bottom line, out the door price.
Most important reply in this thread. Everybody gets all butt-hurt over the profit centers dealers come up with, get over it, it's how they play the game. An informed buyer knows before he sets foot on the lot what his OTD number is and what his trade is worth.
The Toyota dealer where we bought the RAV4 had:
Window tint: $400
Security stickers: $300
and now they install blinking 3rd brake gizmo for $400
Who cares? Bottom line is all that matters.
Use Edmunds.com
Worked well for me when shopping
Worked well for me when shopping
The first time he has a flat or the guy at iffy lube tops off his tire pressure the nitrogen will be contaminated with air. I'd defiantly walk and never look back at those clowns
Originally Posted By: MWisBest
Originally Posted By: ejes
I can't remember where it is, but I just read a study where study showed, if I remember correctly, that regular air eventually seeps into the tire over time and dilutes whatever percentage of Nitrogen is in your tire.
Interesting, I had been under the impression that the opposite is true: the more you need to top up your tires with regular air, the higher the concentration of nitrogen gets. If oxygen is the problem and 'leaks out' like the nitrogen believers claim, and the nitrogen doesn't do that, then over time your tires eventually become more and more nitrogen-concentrated anyway.
When I got new tires last year I needed to add air fairly often. Now they're very stable, but of course correlation does not imply causation.
Nitrogen atoms are SMALLER than Oxygen and would leak more quickly. Rubber is a porous solid. Helium atoms are very small and leak when other gases won't. Sam Adams is selling BEER with Nitrogen added instead of CO2 the smaller bubbles are supposed to make it taste better. I'm waiting for someone to buy me one. May be a long wait.
Originally Posted By: ejes
I can't remember where it is, but I just read a study where study showed, if I remember correctly, that regular air eventually seeps into the tire over time and dilutes whatever percentage of Nitrogen is in your tire.
Interesting, I had been under the impression that the opposite is true: the more you need to top up your tires with regular air, the higher the concentration of nitrogen gets. If oxygen is the problem and 'leaks out' like the nitrogen believers claim, and the nitrogen doesn't do that, then over time your tires eventually become more and more nitrogen-concentrated anyway.
When I got new tires last year I needed to add air fairly often. Now they're very stable, but of course correlation does not imply causation.
Nitrogen atoms are SMALLER than Oxygen and would leak more quickly. Rubber is a porous solid. Helium atoms are very small and leak when other gases won't. Sam Adams is selling BEER with Nitrogen added instead of CO2 the smaller bubbles are supposed to make it taste better. I'm waiting for someone to buy me one. May be a long wait.
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Stealers tend to load up the popular models with add on bleep, if you "gottahavit" then you'll see lots of additional gee gaws added to the "unit". The more trouble they are having moving a slug the less likely you'll see add ons.
Originally Posted By: GumbyJarvis
"Nitrogen is factory spec and will void your warranty with normal air"
-Actual mazda Salesguy
That would be a deal breaker for me. However, I'd dare him to put it in writing first, and then fire a copy off to head office.
"Nitrogen is factory spec and will void your warranty with normal air"
-Actual mazda Salesguy
That would be a deal breaker for me. However, I'd dare him to put it in writing first, and then fire a copy off to head office.
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