Mobil 1 0w-40 (FS)

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Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken


LL01 FE is low viscosity oil. Not the same as LL01.


I am aware of the difference. I thought it was worth mentioning.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
And Bmw M twinPower its not a full GTL oil and we are talking about 0w-40 Pure GTL oils(50% or more) and why they not have not the LL01 as Mobil 1 0w-40 FS, Shell Helix Ultra Pennzoil 0w-40 and their cleaning power of the engine.


This sounds like wild speculation. Why do you think GTL, as a base oil, has magic cleaning power that doesn't exist in PAO or, in particular, POE bases? Base oils, as QP mentioned, aren't what does the cleaning, it is the additive package.


wild speculation? Look at all Full GTL oils? 0w-30 or 0w-40, No one have the LL01. Now we have in EU cheap oils that have the LL01. Why is that Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 does not have it? And now Bmw recommendes Shell.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: mightymousetech
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


BMW's 0w-40, made by Shell, using GTL, is LL-01:


Quote:
Engine oil BMW M TwinPower Turbo Longlife-01 SAE 0W-40 is designed specifically for the BMW M engines of the new generation. Through the use of innovative technology GTL base oil protects the engine at a level exceeding industry standards. This engine oil maintains optimum purity of BMW M engines of the new generation and makes full use of their potential.


Their 0w-30 meets LL-01 FE, and is also GTL.


The 0W40 is not made by Shell, it was leftover from the Castrol days. That is why BMW no longer offers 0W40, it has been discontinued.


The MSDS says it is made by Shell:

https://www.scfuels.com/sds/BMW/bmw-twinpower-turbo-0w-40.pdf






Where is the GTL base stock? LOOKS like the old formula of shell. Like too see VOA of this oil. This prove noting! It can be the old formula or castrols oil even it says Shell. If a company takes over it puts its brand name on evryting.
 
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
No i do not have and read my comment. The spec has noting to do with effect of clening the engine. It does not meet the long life 30k if its clog the filter long before a group 3 does. But there is a spider diagram that show Bmw LL01 vs MB 229.5 and the MB have better wear protection. Same goes with the BMW M series oil recommedation 10w-60(you can google it). Name one oil company that have GTL based 0w-40 that have bmw LL01. Figure it out dude!


LL-01 is far more than just a long-life spec. There are wear requirements as well as turbo coking requirements.


Funny that Mobil super have this spec and not Mobil1 products. Have used them and i will say Mobil1 is waaay better than mobil super after a engine teardown. Common problem is the crank case ventilation on bmw in colder climat. Have not have a singlel one with mobil1 products.
 
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken


wild speculation?


Yes, wild speculation. Unless you have data that you've been holding back from us that you'd care to bring to the thread?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Look at all Full GTL oils? 0w-30 or 0w-40, No one have the LL01.


Why those specific grades? Simply because none of them presently (except the now discontinued BMW product) have LL-01? Shell advertised their 5w-40 as being "full GTL" and yet it still carried LL-01. If your posit about the base oils being "too clean" had merit, then the grade would be irrelevant as long as the base oils were as you claim.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Now we have in EU cheap oils that have the LL01. Why is that Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 does not have it? And now Bmw recommendes Shell.


BMW recommends Shell because Shell got the contract, which used to belong to Castrol. Not surprisingly, back when Castrol had the contract, they recommended Castrol. You are looking for ghosts where there aren't any.
 
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken


Where is the GTL base stock? LOOKS like the old formula of shell. Like too see VOA of this oil. This prove noting! It can be the old formula or castrols oil even it says Shell. If a company takes over it puts its brand name on evryting.


It proves it was made by Shell, that was the purpose of posting it. Or did you miss that part?
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken


wild speculation?


Yes, wild speculation. Unless you have data that you've been holding back from us that you'd care to bring to the thread?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Look at all Full GTL oils? 0w-30 or 0w-40, No one have the LL01.


Why those specific grades? Simply because none of them presently (except the now discontinued BMW product) have LL-01? Shell advertised their 5w-40 as being "full GTL" and yet it still carried LL-01. If your posit about the base oils being "too clean" had merit, then the grade would be irrelevant as long as the base oils were as you claim.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Now we have in EU cheap oils that have the LL01. Why is that Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 does not have it? And now Bmw recommendes Shell.


BMW recommends Shell because Shell got the contract, which used to belong to Castrol. Not surprisingly, back when Castrol had the contract, they recommended Castrol. You are looking for ghosts where there aren't any.



Shell helix ultra 5w-40 have much less gtl and dont confuse your self when we talk about 0w-40. 5w-40 its a diffrent story. And the Shell and castrol story i think evry body knows here. Old Shell formula did have LL01.
Can you tell me why mobil super have the BMW LL01 and why Mobil 1 does not have it? My ponit is that LL01 has noting to do with higher wear protection and are only for longlife. You can google the amount of gtl that is used in the 0w-40 vs 5w-40 and all the test its perform by the 0w-40. Bmw are pretty common cars here. BTW Mobil 1 fs 0w-40 has C14-16-18 alkyl phenol in its formula.
 
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken

Shell helix ultra 5w-40 have much less gtl and dont confuse your self when we talk about 0w-40. 5w-40 its a diffrent story.


Do you have proof it has "much less GTL"?. It was one of the first GTL-based oils they offered, and was, arguably, their flagship product. I remember it being majority GTL when it first showed up, and had LL-01. I'm not confused. I do however wonder why you seem to think there is this massive difference between 5w-40 and 0w-40 when it comes to how this applies to LL-01?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
And the Shell and castrol story i think evry body knows here. Old Shell formula did have LL01.


Old Shell formula of what? The 5w-40 was LL-01, the 0w-40, from Shell, wasn't. Then the BMW-branded Shell 0w-40 was LL-01. All were GTL-based.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Can you tell me why mobil super have the BMW LL01 and why Mobil 1 does not have it?


Sure. Mobil Super is an old formulation. M1 0w-40 was LL-01 prior to the most recent reformulation. Mobil has, for whatever reason, chosen not to pursue LL-01 for the FS product. There's talk about this in the Euro oil section that in fact LL-01 is going away entirely and they've just discontinued the LL-01 5w-30 too. They want you to use LL-01 FE oils now. If you haven't seen the thread, may want to go check it out. This may be why the LL-01 GTL-based BMW-branded 0w-40 went the way of the Dodo as well.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
My ponit is that LL01 has noting to do with higher wear protection and are only for longlife. You can google the amount of gtl that is used in the 0w-40 vs 5w-40 and all the test its perform by the 0w-40. Bmw are pretty common cars here. BTW Mobil 1 fs 0w-40 has C14-16-18 alkyl phenol in its formula.


I am well aware of what the latest FS version of M1 0w-40 has in it for bases, I started the thread about it in the Euro oil section. That still doesn't support your posit that a GTL base is "super clean" and subsequently this is the reason for a couple of 0w-40's that happen to be GTL-based not wearing LL-01. I think the relative newness of those products in conjunction with the potential demise of LL-01 is likely why they don't carry it.
 
Here's the thread about LL-01 and the 5w-30 going away:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4696582/BMW_TwinPower_Turbo_5W-30_(LL-#Post4696582
 
Do you have proof it has "much less GTL"?.
Yes you can email Shell and ask them about GTL amount in 0w-40 vs 5w-40.

Old Shell formula of what? The 5w-40 was LL-01, the 0w-40, from Shell, wasn't. Then the BMW-branded Shell 0w-40 was LL-01. All were GTL-based.

The old formula Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 with active clensing did have bmw LL01. You can google it. Cant get the pdf in here. Then you can read my old comments and read that i am talking about 0w-40 GTL oils that does not have the LL01 whatever oil brand. Then the 0w-40 bmw twin power can be on the old shell formula or rest of castrol. Would be nice to get a uoa or voa off the bmw twin power oil. Need some proof on that oil.
All the cleaning test is done on the 0w-40. You can google it too.
I have used many years Shell helix ultra oils. Do you know where exxonmobil get their gtl from?
 
Bjorn, until you can prove your theories, they will stay just that, theories. Stop spreading speculation as fact.
 
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken

Yes you can email Shell and ask them about GTL amount in 0w-40 vs 5w-40.


Shell is not going to divulge base oil information for their formulas over e-mail, that's just silly.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
The old formula Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 with active clensing did have bmw LL01. You can google it. Cant get the pdf in here.


And it was GTL or it wasn't GTL? If it was GTL, aren't you now contradicting yourself?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Then you can read my old comments and read that i am talking about 0w-40 GTL oils that does not have the LL01 whatever oil brand.


Not trying to be rude, but why would I care to read previous speculation on this subject?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Then the 0w-40 bmw twin power can be on the old shell formula or rest of castrol. Would be nice to get a uoa or voa off the bmw twin power oil. Need some proof on that oil.


It intrigues you because it doesn't align with your theory
wink.gif


Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
All the cleaning test is done on the 0w-40. You can google it too.


Again, you aren't explaining why there is a difference between your cleaning claims for 0w-40 and 5w-40 if they were based the same with GTL. I'm not inclined to google anything here, you've made the claim, I expect you to support it with actual data. Right now, all we have is rather baseless posit.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
I have used many years Shell helix ultra oils. Do you know where exxonmobil get their gtl from?


I have used Mobil 1 for many years, that doesn't make me a tribologist. I assume XOM gets their GTL base oils from Shell unless they've converted one of their other facilities to perform Fischer-Tropsch.
 
Regarding Grupe
smile.gif
III production:

Here is letter by the ILMA from last year regarding NAFTA, but if you will disregard the non-NAFTA data, it is very telling regarding Group III supply and the sourcing of Group III.

https://www.ilma.org/PDF/ILMANews/2017/ILMAEOUSTRLetter.pdf

As far as suppliers of Group III to the worldwide lubricant industry, the S. Korean refineries supply most of the Group III.

I believe Shell uses most of their GTL in their own formulations. Some GTL is given to additive manf. for additive development, but I know I have yet to get one liter from Shell for testing.

However, I can get all the Group III I need from any of the South Korean refineries via American distributors.

It appears Petro-Canada uses most of their internal production of Group III for their own internal products as well, such as their motor oil Blends and Dexron VI.

I see nothing from the Mobil websites regarding any production of Group III, so at present I have to assume they import their Group III from S. Korea as well. Now, this doesn't mean they are not secretly converting some Group II refinery capacity over to Group III.

Now MOTIVA and CALUMET have recently announced production of group III base stock, but their production capacities have not been announced.

http://www.calumetlubricants.com/group-III but only in 4 cSt.

https://fuelsandlubes.com/motiva-starts-...texas-refinery/
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken

Yes you can email Shell and ask them about GTL amount in 0w-40 vs 5w-40.


Shell is not going to divulge base oil information for their formulas over e-mail, that's just silly.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
The old formula Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 with active clensing did have bmw LL01. You can google it. Cant get the pdf in here.


And it was GTL or it wasn't GTL? If it was GTL, aren't you now contradicting yourself?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Then you can read my old comments and read that i am talking about 0w-40 GTL oils that does not have the LL01 whatever oil brand.


Not trying to be rude, but why would I care to read previous speculation on this subject?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Then the 0w-40 bmw twin power can be on the old shell formula or rest of castrol. Would be nice to get a uoa or voa off the bmw twin power oil. Need some proof on that oil.


It intrigues you because it doesn't align with your theory
wink.gif


Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
All the cleaning test is done on the 0w-40. You can google it too.


Again, you aren't explaining why there is a difference between your cleaning claims for 0w-40 and 5w-40 if they were based the same with GTL. I'm not inclined to google anything here, you've made the claim, I expect you to support it with actual data. Right now, all we have is rather baseless posit.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
I have used many years Shell helix ultra oils. Do you know where exxonmobil get their gtl from?


I have used Mobil 1 for many years, that doesn't make me a tribologist. I assume XOM gets their GTL base oils from Shell unless they've converted one of their other facilities to perform Fischer-Tropsch.



Your not even trying to get any facts. And your comments does not make any sense at all. You can ask Shell about it and they will tell you that Shell helix ultra 0w-40 have more gtl than the 5w-40. 5w-40 is common viscosity and chepest oils too in my country. Is it so hard to understand that i was talking about 0w-xx GTL oils? Do you really think that mobil 1 didnt want to pay to get the Bmw LL01? Their is no oil brand with viscosity of 0w-xx that have gtl over 50% that will get the BMW Longlife 1. Mobil 1 fs 0w-40 contain 40-70% gtl,this info is via your old post here at the forum. Nice work! Now bring me someting about the bmw twin power 0w-40,voa or a uoa so i can compere zink amount or titanium
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


...That still doesn't support your posit that a GTL base is "super clean" and subsequently this is the reason for a couple of 0w-40's that happen to be GTL-based not wearing LL-01. I think the relative newness of those products in conjunction with the potential demise of LL-01 is likely why they don't carry it.



Quote:
...In addition, GTL processes can be made to hydroisomerise the waxes to produce heavier
liquids in the lubricant base oil range of viscosities. Since the base oils produced also are
very low in sulphur, as well as having very high viscosity index (VI) and excellent oxidative and
thermal stabilities, more attention is being paid to the future use of GTL processes to produce
combinations of fuels and base oils...


https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STLE_ORG/BOK/OM_OA/Base Oils/GTL Base Oils_Nov15 TLT.pdf

Also see,

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/422/gas-to-liquids

GTL based, base oils (Group III+) simply have lower sulfur content and slightly higher Viscosity Indices than do Group III base oils.

They have less polarity, similar to PAO's, which in effect means they have low solubility for additives. Solubility of additives has to be provided by other base oils and or additives.

I.e., they do NOT have any real inherent cleaning power.

In fact, at least for a while, Pennzoil was using a Glycol component for their "cleaning" claims.

So the claim by our Finnish member that GTL has an inherent cleaning attribute is without merit.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken

Your not even trying to get any facts.


I'm asking you to provide them to back your assertions. I'm simply not willing to "google" results, as those aren't facts. Hopefully Molakule can provide some insight here, given he's a blender.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
And your comments does not make any sense at all. You can ask Shell about it and they will tell you that Shell helix ultra 0w-40 have more gtl than the 5w-40.


The people at the Shell tech support desk do not have intimate knowledge of their oil formulations. In that context, my comments make perfect sense. They are not going to divulge proprietary blending information to a random end user.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
5w-40 is common viscosity and chepest oils too in my country. Is it so hard to understand that i was talking about 0w-xx GTL oils?


I'm aware 5w-40 is cheaper and more common generally. That doesn't in any way affect how much GTL base oil is in the product however. There are majority PAO 5w-40's out there that would be more expensive to blend than a Group III 0w-40. I fully understand that you want to keep this discussion focused on 0w-xx, my question for you, and one you still haven't answered is why the GTL-based 5w-40 that had LL-01 is being overlooked here.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Do you really think that mobil 1 didnt want to pay to get the Bmw LL01?


It is certainly possible if they knew the spec was going away, as per the post in the Euro oil section I linked you to earlier. Same reason Shell may have not pursued it for their recent 0w-40 blend and likely why the TwinPower 0w-40 has gone away, along with the LL-01 5w-30.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Their is no oil brand with viscosity of 0w-xx that have gtl over 50% that will get the BMW Longlife 1.

As per your posit. Again, I'm just asking for some supporting information. Telling me to google it isn't going to cut it. I would like a technical explanation, preferably from somebody who actually blends oils as to why this is the case.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Mobil 1 fs 0w-40 contain 40-70% gtl,this info is via your old post here at the forum. Nice work! Now bring me someting about the bmw twin power 0w-40,voa or a uoa so i can compere zink amount or titanium


A VOA or UOA isn't going to tell us much about the GTL content though, right? And since that oil is now discontinued, obtaining new information is going to be even more difficult.

Does it feel like we are going round-and-round yet?
grin.gif
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL


...That still doesn't support your posit that a GTL base is "super clean" and subsequently this is the reason for a couple of 0w-40's that happen to be GTL-based not wearing LL-01. I think the relative newness of those products in conjunction with the potential demise of LL-01 is likely why they don't carry it.



Quote:
...In addition, GTL processes can be made to hydroisomerise the waxes to produce heavier
liquids in the lubricant base oil range of viscosities. Since the base oils produced also are
very low in sulphur, as well as having very high viscosity index (VI) and excellent oxidative and
thermal stabilities, more attention is being paid to the future use of GTL processes to produce
combinations of fuels and base oils...


https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STLE_ORG/BOK/OM_OA/Base Oils/GTL Base Oils_Nov15 TLT.pdf

Also see,

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/422/gas-to-liquids

GTL based, base oils (Group III+) simply have lower sulfur content and slightly higher Viscosity Indices than do Group III base oils.

They have less polarity, similar to PAO's, which in effect means they have low solubility for additives.

Thus, do NOT have any real inherent cleaning power. This has to be provided by additives and other base oils.

In fact, at least for a while, Pennzoil was using a Glycol component for their "cleaning" claims.

So the claim by our Finnish member that GTL has an inherent cleaning attribute is without merit.


thumbsup2.gif


Thank you!
 
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken

Yes you can email Shell and ask them about GTL amount in 0w-40 vs 5w-40.


Shell is not going to divulge base oil information for their formulas over e-mail, that's just silly.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
The old formula Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 with active clensing did have bmw LL01. You can google it. Cant get the pdf in here.


And it was GTL or it wasn't GTL? If it was GTL, aren't you now contradicting yourself?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Then you can read my old comments and read that i am talking about 0w-40 GTL oils that does not have the LL01 whatever oil brand.


Not trying to be rude, but why would I care to read previous speculation on this subject?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Then the 0w-40 bmw twin power can be on the old shell formula or rest of castrol. Would be nice to get a uoa or voa off the bmw twin power oil. Need some proof on that oil.


It intrigues you because it doesn't align with your theory
wink.gif


Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
All the cleaning test is done on the 0w-40. You can google it too.


Again, you aren't explaining why there is a difference between your cleaning claims for 0w-40 and 5w-40 if they were based the same with GTL. I'm not inclined to google anything here, you've made the claim, I expect you to support it with actual data. Right now, all we have is rather baseless posit.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
I have used many years Shell helix ultra oils. Do you know where exxonmobil get their gtl from?


I have used Mobil 1 for many years, that doesn't make me a tribologist. I assume XOM gets their GTL base oils from Shell unless they've converted one of their other facilities to perform Fischer-Tropsch.



Your not even trying to get any facts. And your comments does not make any sense at all. You can ask Shell about it and they will tell you that Shell helix ultra 0w-40 have more gtl than the 5w-40. 5w-40 is common viscosity and chepest oils too in my country. Is it so hard to understand that i was talking about 0w-xx GTL oils? Do you really think that mobil 1 didnt want to pay to get the Bmw LL01? Their is no oil brand with viscosity of 0w-xx that have gtl over 50% that will get the BMW Longlife 1. Mobil 1 fs 0w-40 contain 40-70% gtl,this info is via your old post here at the forum. Nice work! Now bring me someting about the bmw twin power 0w-40,voa or a uoa so i can compere zink amount or titanium

So far you DID NOT provided ANY facts. You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.
Provide evidence! Provide us here copy of that e-mail from Shell that spells out amount of GTL? Shell does not want even to answer to people how much sulfated ash there is in their oils, let alone to spell out to you what is exact content of their oils.
Besides your temper tantrum here, LL-01 is not particularly difficult specification to meet. IMO, M1 0W40 FS is not also particularly special oil, and I find for me some issues there (as why they need such high sulfated ash content in their oil). But you behave like someone owes you answers while at the same time you did not provide single evidence to support your claims. When you claim something then you are the one to provide evidence. You do not tell people: send e-mail to Shell. You are the one to send that e-mail, and once you get an answer provide it here and support your claim.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken

Yes you can email Shell and ask them about GTL amount in 0w-40 vs 5w-40.


Shell is not going to divulge base oil information for their formulas over e-mail, that's just silly.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
The old formula Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40 with active clensing did have bmw LL01. You can google it. Cant get the pdf in here.


And it was GTL or it wasn't GTL? If it was GTL, aren't you now contradicting yourself?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Then you can read my old comments and read that i am talking about 0w-40 GTL oils that does not have the LL01 whatever oil brand.


Not trying to be rude, but why would I care to read previous speculation on this subject?

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
Then the 0w-40 bmw twin power can be on the old shell formula or rest of castrol. Would be nice to get a uoa or voa off the bmw twin power oil. Need some proof on that oil.


It intrigues you because it doesn't align with your theory
wink.gif


Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
All the cleaning test is done on the 0w-40. You can google it too.


Again, you aren't explaining why there is a difference between your cleaning claims for 0w-40 and 5w-40 if they were based the same with GTL. I'm not inclined to google anything here, you've made the claim, I expect you to support it with actual data. Right now, all we have is rather baseless posit.

Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
I have used many years Shell helix ultra oils. Do you know where exxonmobil get their gtl from?


I have used Mobil 1 for many years, that doesn't make me a tribologist. I assume XOM gets their GTL base oils from Shell unless they've converted one of their other facilities to perform Fischer-Tropsch.



Your not even trying to get any facts. And your comments does not make any sense at all. You can ask Shell about it and they will tell you that Shell helix ultra 0w-40 have more gtl than the 5w-40. 5w-40 is common viscosity and chepest oils too in my country. Is it so hard to understand that i was talking about 0w-xx GTL oils? Do you really think that mobil 1 didnt want to pay to get the Bmw LL01? Their is no oil brand with viscosity of 0w-xx that have gtl over 50% that will get the BMW Longlife 1. Mobil 1 fs 0w-40 contain 40-70% gtl,this info is via your old post here at the forum. Nice work! Now bring me someting about the bmw twin power 0w-40,voa or a uoa so i can compere zink amount or titanium

So far you DID NOT provided ANY facts. You have a right to your own opinion, but not to your own facts.
Provide evidence! Provide us here copy of that e-mail from Shell that spells out amount of GTL? Shell does not want even to answer to people how much sulfated ash there is in their oils, let alone to spell out to you what is exact content of their oils.
Besides your temper tantrum here, LL-01 is not particularly difficult specification to meet. IMO, M1 0W40 FS is not also particularly special oil, and I find for me some issues there (as why they need such high sulfated ash content in their oil). But you behave like someone owes you answers while at the same time you did not provide single evidence to support your claims. When you claim something then you are the one to provide evidence. You do not tell people: send e-mail to Shell. You are the one to send that e-mail, and once you get an answer provide it here and support your claim.


If i send a email it wont prove anyting. Please read my old comments before you comment any blame on me. Then you can find MSDS on their website but that seems to be too hard.
 
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken

If i send a email it wont prove anyting. Please read my old comments before you comment any blame on me. Then you can find MSDS on their website but that seems to be too hard.


Please read Molakule's post above. He's an actual oil formulator, so his weighing in here carries considerably more weight.
 
Originally Posted By: Bjornviken
If i send a email it wont prove anyting. Please read my old comments before you comment any blame on me. Then you can find MSDS on their website but that seems to be too hard.

At least you're demonstrating that you really are just a troll on here to gain attention, not someone who deals with facts. Multiple individuals are making virtually the same comment and you're not responding to any of it, that is the indicator.
 
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