Fram Tough Guard 3387A cut open [PICS]

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I am not sold on glued together fiber endcaps.....if it is so good then why are all the BETTER filters..inluding FRAM'S premium filters have endcaps made of metal?????


The Ultra needs metal end caps because of the two layer full synthetic media with the wire backing. They could not construct it to work well if it didn't have metal end caps. It's been said many times.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I am not sold on glued together fiber endcaps.....if it is so good then why are all the BETTER filters..inluding FRAM'S premium filters have endcaps made of metal?????


The Ultra needs metal end caps because of the two layer full synthetic media with the wire backing. They could not construct it to work well if it didn't have metal end caps. It's been said many times.



That is true...but what about other filters like Bosch and Purolators? Regular media and steel endcaps.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: GMBoy



No - it would take a lot more than that to make it a better filter. The media would need to be better and the rubber used would need to be better too. My point is simply that there are better filters at this price point.


The TG uses a silicone anti-drainback valve. I thought this was the best?


It is the best and also the TG uses a synthetic blend media with 99% efficiency, he's just bashing without facts at this point.


I am not bashing. My simple point is only that at the price point of the FRAMS there are better filters. That is all. I do stand corrected on the silicone valve on the TG. I knew the media is better too. I just belong to the club (along with a lot of BITOG members) that doesn't like glued fiber endcaps. I understand this is more opinion than factual and nobody I know lost an engine to a Fram. I really think the cheapie orange can EG is simply an awful filter for the price. Even not considering the endcaps, the media is just so awful no matter what the rating is. The construction of the orange can is dollar store territory compared to other comparable filters. I agree tough guard does have good media and is a step up for sure.

Open a fram next to even a purolator classic and you can see the differences in quality.

My opinion only but also my choice.


(note - I do like Fram air filters)

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I am not sold on glued together fiber endcaps.....if it is so good then why are all the BETTER filters..inluding FRAM'S premium filters have endcaps made of metal?????


The Ultra needs metal end caps because of the two layer full synthetic media with the wire backing. They could not construct it to work well if it didn't have metal end caps. It's been said many times.



That is true...but what about other filters like Bosch and Purolators? Regular media and steel endcaps.


That's just the way Bosch and Purolator choose to design those filters. They could use fiber/non-metal end caps too if they'd like. Who knows, someday they might.

 

[ZeeOSix]

One thing I've brought up before is that if Fram used thicker fiber end caps like the filters they make for Honda, then I think it would raise the design up a notch. The Honda filters made by Honeywell have noticeably thicker end caps, which gives them more strength and helps them stay more rigid and flat over the OCI.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I am not sold on glued together fiber endcaps.....if it is so good then why are all the BETTER filters..inluding FRAM'S premium filters have endcaps made of metal?????


The Ultra needs metal end caps because of the two layer full synthetic media with the wire backing. They could not construct it to work well if it didn't have metal end caps. It's been said many times.



That is true...but what about other filters like Bosch and Purolators? Regular media and steel endcaps.


That's just the way Bosch and Purolator choose to design those filters. They could use fiber/non-metal end caps too if they'd like. Who knows, someday they might.



I agree with you. If you look at the the e-core style filters, they are similar in design as far as endcaps. Perhaps if you added all the Fram and e-core's together we would find that there are more "soft" endcaped filters than metal.

 

[Sayjac]

Since the subject has been broached, at one point in the past Purolator had fiber end caps, pics have been posted here before showing that. But if Purolator decided to go back to that type construction they would have to significantly lower the everyday price of their filters 'for me' to even consider future purchase. And 'imo' such a move would be a step backward, literally and figuratively. That said, while obviously anything is possible, with Mann&Hummel as current owner I'd be shocked if such a change is even a minor consideration for future production. Enter 'Mann oil filters' on youtube and note the first 5-6 videos, three of which are Mann promotional vidoes for their specific filter construction.

Everyone is entitled to their preference to for a filter and that includes the type of construction. Cost for construction as a prime consideration and current trendiness aside, my preference for a specific type construction hasn't changed.

 

[NormanBuntz]

Can't say I like the wide spacing of those pleats. I thought TG was a better upgrade over the EG. Also, if I knew in the 1990's what I've since learned about oil filters, I would not have used so many orange cans on my all-time favorite car, my 1990 Acura Legend LS. Then the engine could have gone 400K instead of just 250K. If I can buy a Baldwin or a Hastings for an extra $1 or $2, the choice is a no brainer.

 

[HTSS_TR]

The weakest part of Fram Extra Guard is thin media and little of it. The Tough Guard has much better media and much more than Extra Guard, also the fiber endcaps look thicker.

The Tough Guard is as good as other filter in their price range.

The Extra Guard is overpriced for its low quality. With this said, I'm currently using Extra Guard in my S2000 without obvious problem. I use PH2849A which is almost 2" longer than the PCX-004. I have 3 TG3985's, it's about 3/4" longer and 3/4" wider than PCX-004. I will use these filters in the near future.

 

[Merkava_4]

No metal end caps. Why an educated member of BITOG would buy such a thing is beyond me.

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
No metal end caps. Why an educated member of BITOG would buy such a thing is beyond me.


Thank you! This filter looks like it was engineered to be built as cheaply as possible. It's not going on my engine!

OCOD in a silver can!

 

[sevenznuf]

all these (cheap made frams) don't seem to have media tears like all these (high quality metal end capped puros), quality control with puros now seems to be quite frankly a joke!!! so I will stick with my (cheap made frams) and rest assured the media is doing its job and not torn!!!

 

[Dallas69]

Porous end caps will adhere to porous media bettet than non porous metal

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
No metal end caps. Why an educated member of BITOG would buy such a thing is beyond me.


They bond better, so they work as well or better. Fram actually had a patent on them that has since expired.

A search on here will find you dissected filters with metal endcaps that were not properly bonded and would pop right off. Been at least two metal endcap "poppers" in the last 3 months on here, all Puro made I believe.

I don't recall seeing a poorly bonded metal endcap on anything by Wix though.

 

[dishdude]

Metal endcaps are pretty much submerged in adhesive and under constant pressure while installed in the can. "Poppers" have no effect on the operation of the filter.

 

[chainblu]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
No metal end caps. Why an educated member of BITOG would buy such a thing is beyond me.


Sorry, it's not that simple. I'm as educated as any member here and the fiber vs metal end cap debate that consumes waaayy too much space here is a total NON-issue for me.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Metal endcaps are pretty much submerged in adhesive and under constant pressure while installed in the can. "Poppers" have no effect on the operation of the filter.


Yes they probably don't. Certainly not desirable though, as the endcap is supposed to keep the media in place which includes the pleat to pleat spacing, a "popper" is falling down on the job there although I have not seen any media "issues" on those that exhibited the flaw either.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Metal endcaps are pretty much submerged in adhesive and under constant pressure while installed in the can. "Poppers" have no effect on the operation of the filter.


Yes they probably don't. Certainly not desirable though, as the endcap is supposed to keep the media in place which includes the pleat to pleat spacing, a "popper" is falling down on the job there although I have not seen any media "issues" on those that exhibited the flaw either.


Once the potting glue has dried, the pleats and their spacing is 100% locked in, even if the end cap pops off.

 

[KCJeep]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Once the potting glue has dried, the pleats and their spacing is 100% locked in, even if the end cap pops off.


Whats the point in gluing the pleats to the endcaps then? Just pop 'em all off at the factory.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix

Once the potting glue has dried, the pleats and their spacing is 100% locked in, even if the end cap pops off.


Whats the point in gluing the pleats to the endcaps then? Just pop 'em all off at the factory.

The metal end caps are basically used to provide a structure for the potting material to sit in. The metal end caps are typically also used to incorporate a bypass valve also.

Theoretically, you could pop off the end caps and just let the dried glue be the end cap if the resulting surface was smooth enough. But you would then have to use a separate bypass valve sub-assembly like FRAM uses on their fiber end caps. Some cartridge filters actually have end caps which are made of just the potting material.