Anyone remember cash for clunkers

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Originally Posted By: turtlevette
I'm going to keep my 84 3/4 ton burban going forever just to make environmentalists cry.

Just bought another gallon of bondo the other day.



Good for you bud lol in fact keeping the same vehiclecgoing for 30 years is probably more environmentally friendly .
 
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
It generally was a good program for the economy, the environment and the carmakers and their employees and shareholders.

The losers out of it were the second hand market buyers.


I'm sure it hurt the repair industry and parts retailers too.
 
Originally Posted By: motor_oil_madman
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
It generally was a good program for the economy, the environment and the carmakers and their employees and shareholders.

The losers out of it were the second hand market buyers.


I'm sure it hurt the repair industry and parts retailers too.


You can't keep everyone happy all of the time.
 
CFC should have been exclusively for the buyers from domestic manufacturers, since they were the ones that needed gov't money for the bailout loans. I too saw some decent older cars junked.
 
I almost did it with my 1997 Lincoln Continental with 220K miles...worth about $500. Thing was, I couldn't find any nice used or new car from a dealership that I felt was worth the $13K-$22K it would cost to upgrade. Even with the $2K-$3K or so from CFC I was better off just going out and finding a nice used car from a private party that was priced reasonably. I ended up buying for cash my current 2002 Lincoln ($9K at 22K miles). 8 yrs later and it was the smarter thing to do.
 
No one was forced to do anything, other than the taxpayer.

There is irrational response at all points of the ideological spectrum.

First, while C4C had a target of 700k cars, that was a drop in the bucket for the market.

I think new car sales, most of which had a trade in, was running at 16 million cars and light trucks per year. So getting 700 thousand to turn in old vehicles probably didn't move the meter very much as new sales dropped below 10 million / year, IIRC.

So while C4C did take a number of cars off the used car market. The big thing that took used cars out of the market was the 6-7 million trade ins that didn't happen because new car sales dropped.

C4C took less than 10% of one years worth of trade ins out of the market. The 30% plus drop in sales over the course of the next 3-5 years did far more to the used car market than did C4C.

However, C4C was very wasteful as it really didn't move the market and cars that could have been used by another owner (and I'm not saying all could) were destroyed.

To me, it looked like the government was just trying to look busy, instead of addressing the real issues, which were how those who drove the economy into the ditch suffered few if any consequences for their actions.

We are distracted by C4C instead of wondering why some bankers are not in jail.
 
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
It generally was a good program for the economy, the environment and the carmakers and their employees and shareholders.

The losers out of it were the second hand market buyers.


See my post above.

New sales prior to the recession were running at 16 million/year.
Post recession, I think they fell to 9-10 million/year, maybe lower.

C4C had a max of 700k cars, IIRC and was for a very short time.

That was on the order of 10% of the lost sales of one year. Probably didn't do anything other than make the G look busy.
 
Originally Posted By: Greggy_D
How was the program funded? Our tax dollars?


lol.gif


We don't pay enough tax to fund many things. It was borrowed money.
 
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
I read where someone traded in some nice, good condition classic car, like a 67 Mustang or something.

False. Only vehicles from 1984 or newer qualified for the program.
 
No one was forced to do anything, other than the taxpayer.

All taxpayers were forced to subsidize a program that benefited very few.

There. Fixed it for you.

Taxpayers paid $24,000 per vehicle sold (edmunds.com)
Edmunds.com analysts calculated that only 125,000 of the sales were incremental. The rest of the sales would have happened anyway, regardless of the existence of the program.
 
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: bubbatime
I read where someone traded in some nice, good condition classic car, like a 67 Mustang or something.

False. Only vehicles from 1984 or newer qualified for the program.
There was other programs that were like cash for clunkers. Hot Rod magazine/Dave Freiburger bought a 67 Camaro off a guy that was doing a program like this in California. They paid like $500 for it and call it the Crusher Camaro.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Immature politicians get to play games like this and we pay the freight. It's a wonderful system, for them. Unintended consequences just mean there's going to be a new game to play. There's lots of games to play because we'll pick up the tab.
This ^
 
Originally Posted By: khittner
Worked fine for me. My mother-in-law fobbed off my father-in-law's early-90s Suburban gas-guzzler, and bought the most American car available (in terms of U.S.-made parts and assembly content)---a Tennessee-built Toyota Camry. She's still driving it eight years later, and saved more than half the fracked dinosaur juice that the Suburban would've swilled. She also sold her '02 Camry to me in the deal, and my son is still driving that one at 260+K miles. Multiple wins for my family from that "public policy failure".
but a perfectly good suburban got ruined out of it.
 
Some of the highlights from the Brookings Institute Paper:

"The net result was a negligible increase in GDP, shifting roughly $2 billion into the third quarter of 2009 from the subsequent two quarters."

"The CARS program created 0.7 jobs for each million dollars of program cost, resulting in a cost of $1.4 million per job created. This suggests that the CARS program was far less cost effective at creating jobs than other fiscal stimulus programs, such as increasing unemployment aid, reducing payroll taxes, providing an additional social security payment, or allowing the expensing of investment costs."

"The CARS program led to a slight improvement in fuel economy and some reduction in carbon emissions. The cost per ton of carbon dioxide reduced from the program suggests that the program was not a cost-effective way to reduce emissions, although it was more cost effective than certain other environmental policies, such as the tax subsidy for electric vehicles or the tax credit for ethanol."


"In the event of a future economic recession, we would not recommend repeating the CARS program. While the program did accomplish both of its goals of stimulating the automobile market and decreasing carbon emissions, there are more cost effective policy proposals to achieve these objectives."

So in other words, not cost effective. But interestingly, still a better deal than subsidies for ethanol and electric vehicles.

So if this wasn't cost effective, and was a better deal than ethanol and electric car subsidies, how bad are those subsidies?
 
Originally Posted By: jdawg89
Originally Posted By: khittner
Worked fine for me. My mother-in-law fobbed off my father-in-law's early-90s Suburban gas-guzzler, and bought the most American car available (in terms of U.S.-made parts and assembly content)---a Tennessee-built Toyota Camry. She's still driving it eight years later, and saved more than half the fracked dinosaur juice that the Suburban would've swilled. She also sold her '02 Camry to me in the deal, and my son is still driving that one at 260+K miles. Multiple wins for my family from that "public policy failure".
but a perfectly good suburban got ruined out of it.

Maybe. Maybe not. Could have been a piece that was going to go to the wrecker anyway.
 
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