I think it was KIA that I saw on a TV ad saying they have an electric parking brake. Which would no doubt be even more useless in this situation.
Run Away KIA
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I'm wondering if her claim that she put it in neutral was her CYA way of saying she thought of that after the fact. I've put my Honda in neutral on empty roads and confirmed that it has no trouble going into neutral while in motion.
I will say the Honda's parking brake is enough to hold the car on a hill, but that's it. It's not too hard to drive away with it on, though you do notice it's kind of sluggish before you notice the BRAKE light is glaring at you. Supposedly it will start beeping at you politely before you burn up the parking brake, but I haven't gotten that far yet.
Years ago I knew a girl whose pre-fuel injection car was prone to stalling occasionally, but she insisted the brakes didn't work when the engine quit so one time when I was riding with her and her engine stalled, she shoved it into park at 30 MPH (ouch). Tried to explain the brakes need more effort without the vacuum assist, and that the parking brake would be a much better alternative than shoving into park, but she insisted she had no brakes and she knew how to drive. Uh huh.
I will say the Honda's parking brake is enough to hold the car on a hill, but that's it. It's not too hard to drive away with it on, though you do notice it's kind of sluggish before you notice the BRAKE light is glaring at you. Supposedly it will start beeping at you politely before you burn up the parking brake, but I haven't gotten that far yet.
Years ago I knew a girl whose pre-fuel injection car was prone to stalling occasionally, but she insisted the brakes didn't work when the engine quit so one time when I was riding with her and her engine stalled, she shoved it into park at 30 MPH (ouch). Tried to explain the brakes need more effort without the vacuum assist, and that the parking brake would be a much better alternative than shoving into park, but she insisted she had no brakes and she knew how to drive. Uh huh.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
3) I would say a good portion of drivers don't know what the "N" is.
Sad but probably true.
3) I would say a good portion of drivers don't know what the "N" is.
Sad but probably true.
Quote:
The 911 operator – who was in constant contact with the Highway Patrol’s headquarters in Jefferson City – had told her to lift up the accelerator and push on the brake. It worked, the third time she did it.
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/24/3778134/horror-ride-on-i-35.html#storylink=cpy
Sounds like the pedal was physically stuck down. Maybe a floor mat or something caught it.
The 911 operator – who was in constant contact with the Highway Patrol’s headquarters in Jefferson City – had told her to lift up the accelerator and push on the brake. It worked, the third time she did it.
http://www.kansascity.com/2012/08/24/3778134/horror-ride-on-i-35.html#storylink=cpy
Sounds like the pedal was physically stuck down. Maybe a floor mat or something caught it.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: Miller88
3) I would say a good portion of drivers don't know what the "N" is.
Sad but probably true.
The same can be said for idiots who love to ride other people's bumper. If the front driver even take their foot off the gas, it is enough for a rearend collision, let alone brake check. Just because accidents do not kill or cause major setback in video games does not mean they won't in real life. I hate tailgaters.
By the way, it is very easy to put just about every vehicle in Neuntal. The last thing a driver should do in an unintentional acceleration is to get on the phone. What'll be next, texting the police.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
3) I would say a good portion of drivers don't know what the "N" is.
Sad but probably true.
The same can be said for idiots who love to ride other people's bumper. If the front driver even take their foot off the gas, it is enough for a rearend collision, let alone brake check. Just because accidents do not kill or cause major setback in video games does not mean they won't in real life. I hate tailgaters.
By the way, it is very easy to put just about every vehicle in Neuntal. The last thing a driver should do in an unintentional acceleration is to get on the phone. What'll be next, texting the police.
Originally Posted By: Miller88
2)Everything is computed. If the computer freaked out and was thinking "wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open " it likely wasn't thinking "Oh, lets turn on the brake lights" or "lets turn the engine off" or "lets put it in neutral".
Brake lights typically have their own dedicated circuit. I'll have to look next time I have a Kia in but I don't think it runs the brake lights through the PCM or BCM. The control modules will get a signal through the brake light switch but do not typically run the brake lights. The brake lights should operate independantly.
2)Everything is computed. If the computer freaked out and was thinking "wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open wide open " it likely wasn't thinking "Oh, lets turn on the brake lights" or "lets turn the engine off" or "lets put it in neutral".
Brake lights typically have their own dedicated circuit. I'll have to look next time I have a Kia in but I don't think it runs the brake lights through the PCM or BCM. The control modules will get a signal through the brake light switch but do not typically run the brake lights. The brake lights should operate independantly.
My Volvo is Fly-By-Wire, but the throttle does not cut out when I hit the brake pedal. I know this because I can left foot brake and heel-toe with no issues. However the car does have the mystical third pedal for if it does accelerate I can stab that or toss it into neutral.
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Kia said they "could not duplicate the issue"
at the end of the video here: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/20...fe-horror-ride/
Whatever the cause was, how come NTSB doesn't require brake override on those cars with push start buttons?
Every car maker should do it for their own liability.
And not require it for all those idiots in Toyotas with KEY ignitions that had the same "problem"? I wouldn't blame the start/stop switch as much as I would blame her for most likely not reading the owners manual and learning about the vehicle before she ever got into it. I am betting KIA couldn't duplicate the problem because KIA couldn't duplicate the drivers stupidity, much like Toyota couldn't duplicate it.
Kia said they "could not duplicate the issue"
at the end of the video here: http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/20...fe-horror-ride/
Whatever the cause was, how come NTSB doesn't require brake override on those cars with push start buttons?
Every car maker should do it for their own liability.
And not require it for all those idiots in Toyotas with KEY ignitions that had the same "problem"? I wouldn't blame the start/stop switch as much as I would blame her for most likely not reading the owners manual and learning about the vehicle before she ever got into it. I am betting KIA couldn't duplicate the problem because KIA couldn't duplicate the drivers stupidity, much like Toyota couldn't duplicate it.
Originally Posted By: Rand
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Doesn't make sense.
On my vehicles, the pedal to the left of the accelerator will always cause deceleration, regardless of what the engine is trying to do. Get down to a reasonable speed, find a straight stretch, and turn off the ignition.
it has "push to start button" how is she supposed to turn it off.
also the more momentum you have the less effective brakes work.
go 85 and try stepping on the gas and brake at the same time..
(ok don't but you may be surprised)
alternative: try reading the article before commenting
you can also use the delete post button to delete your post.
A magazine (Car & Driver, I think) did just that with several cars, including a V6 Camry, a Maxima, and a fire-breathing Rousch Mustang. All stopped.
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Doesn't make sense.
On my vehicles, the pedal to the left of the accelerator will always cause deceleration, regardless of what the engine is trying to do. Get down to a reasonable speed, find a straight stretch, and turn off the ignition.
it has "push to start button" how is she supposed to turn it off.
also the more momentum you have the less effective brakes work.
go 85 and try stepping on the gas and brake at the same time..
(ok don't but you may be surprised)
alternative: try reading the article before commenting
you can also use the delete post button to delete your post.
A magazine (Car & Driver, I think) did just that with several cars, including a V6 Camry, a Maxima, and a fire-breathing Rousch Mustang. All stopped.
Originally Posted By: Tim H.
And not require it for all those idiots in Toyotas with KEY ignitions that had the same "problem"?
I presume by the idiots you are referring to the CA HP officer who got killed with his family in that rental Lexus with wrong floor mat?
And not require it for all those idiots in Toyotas with KEY ignitions that had the same "problem"?
I presume by the idiots you are referring to the CA HP officer who got killed with his family in that rental Lexus with wrong floor mat?
Originally Posted By: Jarlaxle
A magazine (Car & Driver, I think) did just that with several cars, including a V6 Camry, a Maxima, and a fire-breathing Rousch Mustang. All stopped.
Yes, with cold brakes. When the brakes are taxed first, you can't do it.
If someone panics and doen't apply brakes properly the first time, then there are no brakes.
Quote:
With other vehicles, however, stopping the car while the accelerator is depressed is a much more difficult proposition. Testers used a Toyota Venza and a Chevrolet HHR, for instance, and were unable to bring the cars to a stop from highway speed using just the brake pedal. CNET explains, "Both cars downshifted quickly when put through this test, and the drivers had to struggle to keep pressure on the brakes, fighting engine torque. But they were able to bring the cars to a stop. Repeating the test on these cars by running up to the full 60 mph, the drivers were able to slow to about 10 mph," but were unable to stop the cars.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/car...Pedal-Is-Stuck/
A magazine (Car & Driver, I think) did just that with several cars, including a V6 Camry, a Maxima, and a fire-breathing Rousch Mustang. All stopped.
Yes, with cold brakes. When the brakes are taxed first, you can't do it.
If someone panics and doen't apply brakes properly the first time, then there are no brakes.
Quote:
With other vehicles, however, stopping the car while the accelerator is depressed is a much more difficult proposition. Testers used a Toyota Venza and a Chevrolet HHR, for instance, and were unable to bring the cars to a stop from highway speed using just the brake pedal. CNET explains, "Both cars downshifted quickly when put through this test, and the drivers had to struggle to keep pressure on the brakes, fighting engine torque. But they were able to bring the cars to a stop. Repeating the test on these cars by running up to the full 60 mph, the drivers were able to slow to about 10 mph," but were unable to stop the cars.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/car...Pedal-Is-Stuck/
ls1mike
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Panic is a strange thing. If you don't practice and practice some more you will panic. That is why on Submarines you practice and practice. Then when the real thing happens it is no big deal.
Hard to do with a car if you don't go to the track and practice. I am certain only the driver knows the real story so I won't comment on her situation. However, I do like my keys and drive by cable cars. Not to keen on the DBW stuff. Although both of mine have been trouble free.
Hard to do with a car if you don't go to the track and practice. I am certain only the driver knows the real story so I won't comment on her situation. However, I do like my keys and drive by cable cars. Not to keen on the DBW stuff. Although both of mine have been trouble free.
^^^This is so true. I had a 427 Impala in my stable at one time set up for drag racing. Broke a motor mount and had 600+ raging horsepower jammed wfo!
Simply turned the key while stomping the brake. Brought the whole rig home safely. Not too much fuss or drama.
No matter what we do to 'idiot-proof' the cars someone will always find a way to get around it with ignorance. A runaway car is a sign of a befuddled driver.
Simply turned the key while stomping the brake. Brought the whole rig home safely. Not too much fuss or drama.
No matter what we do to 'idiot-proof' the cars someone will always find a way to get around it with ignorance. A runaway car is a sign of a befuddled driver.
Operator error, simple as that. Had she read the manual with a serious demeaner, or her DH done so with her (as I did with my wife), this may have been a complete non-incident.
Our two pushtostart vehicles have physical keys in the key fob in case of a no-charge situation. I suspect many others do as well.
That type of vehicle takes some work to get right, but so does keeping eggs from sticking in the pan, diapering a wiggly 2 yr old, and juggling driving/phone/coffee/makeup at the same time. It's not beyond the average male or female if THERE IS A DESIRE TO DO SO.
Our two pushtostart vehicles have physical keys in the key fob in case of a no-charge situation. I suspect many others do as well.
That type of vehicle takes some work to get right, but so does keeping eggs from sticking in the pan, diapering a wiggly 2 yr old, and juggling driving/phone/coffee/makeup at the same time. It's not beyond the average male or female if THERE IS A DESIRE TO DO SO.
Ya know, not everybody is going to know the secret handshake, of holding down the "start button" for 3 secs.
I suspect she tried it and that it did not work.
digitally controlled systems can go haywire and it's not unheard of for them to become 100% non responsive. We had an aircraft related "similar situation" with FAA certified components on our Gulfstream G550.
Shutdown and re-start cures the problem and it's impossible to duplicate.
I suspect she tried it and that it did not work.
digitally controlled systems can go haywire and it's not unheard of for them to become 100% non responsive. We had an aircraft related "similar situation" with FAA certified components on our Gulfstream G550.
Shutdown and re-start cures the problem and it's impossible to duplicate.
"Shift to neutral" is the advice that still grates my nerves. I'm used to old-school computer-less cars where doing that while the throttle is stuck will potentially blow the engine and get you a lap full of engine parts and a windshield full of oil and scalding coolant in addition to all your other problems. Yes, new cars will rev-limit and not blow the engine, but 30 years of habit dies hard. Count me in the "turn the key off" camp. I can deal with the lack of power steering and power brakes once the engine quits turning.... which it won't do until you're below about 15 mph even with an automatic.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Ya know, not everybody is going to know the secret handshake, of holding down the "start button" for 3 secs.
I suspect she tried it and that it did not work.
digitally controlled systems can go haywire and it's not unheard of for them to become 100% non responsive. We had an aircraft related "similar situation" with FAA certified components on our Gulfstream G550.
Shutdown and re-start cures the problem and it's impossible to duplicate.
The method to stop a runaway car should NEVER require reading of a manual. If you need to read a manual to get a runaway to stop, then the idiot is the engineer. Stopping a runaway car should be an intuative manuver. The idiots are the car makers.
Ya know, not everybody is going to know the secret handshake, of holding down the "start button" for 3 secs.
I suspect she tried it and that it did not work.
digitally controlled systems can go haywire and it's not unheard of for them to become 100% non responsive. We had an aircraft related "similar situation" with FAA certified components on our Gulfstream G550.
Shutdown and re-start cures the problem and it's impossible to duplicate.
The method to stop a runaway car should NEVER require reading of a manual. If you need to read a manual to get a runaway to stop, then the idiot is the engineer. Stopping a runaway car should be an intuative manuver. The idiots are the car makers.
Originally Posted By: Cujet
Ya know, not everybody is going to know the secret handshake, of holding down the "start button" for 3 secs.
I suspect she tried it and that it did not work.
digitally controlled systems can go haywire and it's not unheard of for them to become 100% non responsive. We had an aircraft related "similar situation" with FAA certified components on our Gulfstream G550.
Shutdown and re-start cures the problem and it's impossible to duplicate.
Think about it, three things had to have failed on this KIA all at once.
1. Drive by wire.
2. Ignition turn off button/circuit.
3. Transmission would not come out of gear.
These are not cascading failures. Odds are driver is at error here more than anything.
Ya know, not everybody is going to know the secret handshake, of holding down the "start button" for 3 secs.
I suspect she tried it and that it did not work.
digitally controlled systems can go haywire and it's not unheard of for them to become 100% non responsive. We had an aircraft related "similar situation" with FAA certified components on our Gulfstream G550.
Shutdown and re-start cures the problem and it's impossible to duplicate.
Think about it, three things had to have failed on this KIA all at once.
1. Drive by wire.
2. Ignition turn off button/circuit.
3. Transmission would not come out of gear.
These are not cascading failures. Odds are driver is at error here more than anything.
1. if engine is at WOT, there is no vacuum available to the brake booster. It's going to require 2 feet. and you're going to have to stop it in under 30 seconds, or the brakes will heat, fluid will boil, and you will have no brakes.
2. I have tested this. In a 2.2L subaru, in 5th gear, at 70. You can yank the e-brake all the way past the ratchet stops, the brakes will heat up, then the cable gets stretchy and you can pull it all the way up and back, and the car will then accelerate beyond what the ebrake will do.
3. so to me, it's either to stomp the foo out of the pedal with to lillyfooting around, or a neutral drop. I don't know why we don't hear of neutral drops. maybe the people that do them never make the news.
2. I have tested this. In a 2.2L subaru, in 5th gear, at 70. You can yank the e-brake all the way past the ratchet stops, the brakes will heat up, then the cable gets stretchy and you can pull it all the way up and back, and the car will then accelerate beyond what the ebrake will do.
3. so to me, it's either to stomp the foo out of the pedal with to lillyfooting around, or a neutral drop. I don't know why we don't hear of neutral drops. maybe the people that do them never make the news.
This sounds like operator error to me, it could have been something as simple as a floor mat stuck around the pedal.
This happened a few years ago to a boat I know. It was a 63ft Ocean that was just sold to an attorney who was new to boating. He was coming into the harbor at WOT and when he went to pull the throttles back the port diesel would not throttle back. So instead of doing what an experienced skipper would do and wheel the boat around, head back out to sea and try to figure it out, or worst case run the boat back and forth and run that motor out of fuel. He decided to take it out of gear. Now a 12V92TA running balls to the wall under max load when suddenly taken out of gear...well lots of not so good things happen. I forget exactly what happened originally to prevent it throttling back but my friend who rebuilt it said it was an internal failure. So the motor spun up to like an insane RPM, I want to say over 5k, and after a few minutes of blowing enough black smoke to make the boat look like it was on fire, self destructed and blew a few rods threw the block, took the transmission out as well in the process and filled the bilge with oil and metal chunks. $80,000 later all was fixed.
This happened a few years ago to a boat I know. It was a 63ft Ocean that was just sold to an attorney who was new to boating. He was coming into the harbor at WOT and when he went to pull the throttles back the port diesel would not throttle back. So instead of doing what an experienced skipper would do and wheel the boat around, head back out to sea and try to figure it out, or worst case run the boat back and forth and run that motor out of fuel. He decided to take it out of gear. Now a 12V92TA running balls to the wall under max load when suddenly taken out of gear...well lots of not so good things happen. I forget exactly what happened originally to prevent it throttling back but my friend who rebuilt it said it was an internal failure. So the motor spun up to like an insane RPM, I want to say over 5k, and after a few minutes of blowing enough black smoke to make the boat look like it was on fire, self destructed and blew a few rods threw the block, took the transmission out as well in the process and filled the bilge with oil and metal chunks. $80,000 later all was fixed.
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