Recent Topics
Ran My First Full Road Marathon - Race Report!
by john_pifer. 12/10/18 07:33 PM
Atlas Pinnacle Pristine shingles
by gregk24. 12/10/18 07:24 PM
CZ-97B Warped Plastic Recoil Spring Guide Rod
by billt460. 12/10/18 07:19 PM
to buy or not to buy
by briggyman. 12/10/18 07:09 PM
Strange tire failure - w picture
by Cressida. 12/10/18 06:10 PM
Looking for a budget steam cleaner
by 2008wrx. 12/10/18 05:04 PM
3.3 V-6 in 2017-18 Santa Fe engine concerns?
by blupupher. 12/10/18 05:00 PM
(NEW) NAPA ProSelect 21060 Cut Open
by rooflessVW. 12/10/18 04:19 PM
True or false
by 53' Stude. 12/10/18 04:15 PM
First repair on Jeep
by OVERKILL. 12/10/18 03:06 PM
Eureka vacuum beater bar
by Donald. 12/10/18 03:04 PM
Talk about keeping ones lungs clear
by BMWTurboDzl. 12/10/18 01:50 PM
Notorious Parts
by DoubleWasp. 12/10/18 01:04 PM
2007 Yaris no oil when draining
by Audios. 12/10/18 12:10 PM
Raptor 700- M1 vs. T4
by Torch94. 12/10/18 11:38 AM
Unusual 75W-90 Cold Specs
by badtlc. 12/10/18 10:39 AM
BITOG Mobile Login
by RamFan. 12/10/18 10:20 AM
Newest Members
Maputocar, ESTEBAN, Torch94, EvilFox, Hawkerpilot05
66643 Registered Users
Who's Online Now
97 registered members (andyd, 77GrandPrix, advocate, askani79705, 2strokeNorthstar, 7 invisible), 1,934 guests, and 41 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics294,889
Posts4,923,785
Members66,643
Most Online2,553
Oct 27th, 2018
Donate to BITOG
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 2 1 2
New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post #4030026
03/05/16 05:23 PM
03/05/16 05:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline OP
WellOiled  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
This is a cut and post of a new AC Delco PF1250 (25014520).
Date code: 15125ES 12:41 Product of USA
Birthday: May 5, 2015 12:41

The as built condition of the filter is very good and includes design improvements I will address. In many respects, this is a work of art compared to other filters made by other manufacturers.



IMG_0539-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Exterior Label
Good looking blue paint scheme with a stick on label that is easily read.



IMG_0541-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Date Code
Date Code: 15125ES 12:41 Product of USA
Birth Date: May 5, 2015 12:41



IMG_0542-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Base End
You can see the gasket, auxiliary base plate, some of the inlet holes and the edge of some of the bypass holes.



IMG_0543-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Base End #2
Portions of the anti drain back valve are visible, thread end and small portion of the cage and filter media.
Some manufacturers crimp the base plate to hold the gasket but this one has bumps on the ID of the gasket.



IMG_0544-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Base plate interior
The surgery begins with an interior view of the base plate. No problems or rust noted here. The 8 inlet holes and 6 bypass holes were sufficiently deburred.



IMG_0545-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Combo Valve on thread end of filter
Combo valve and interior gasket appeared well centered by the nubs on the thread end filter end cap.



IMG_0546-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Combo valve on thread end #2
Angled view of the combo valve and also showing the core. There are 8 vertical supports on this filter. The last one I cut&posted had the 4 vertical supports. The new one also has more rings to support the media. This greatly reduces the window size and I believe supports the media better than the old design and should reduce the risk of a media blow out while still maintaining a free flowing design. The Combo valve was also pliable and I believe would serve it's purpose.



IMG_0547-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter 0 degrees
Nice even pleat spacing in the 0 degree sector. The two closest pleats are the splice as the glued end is turned into the core.



IMG_0548-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter 90 degrees
Nice even pleat spacing in the 90 degree sector. No pleat spaces greater than 0.25" wide.



IMG_0549-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter 180 degrees
Nice even pleat spacing in the 180 degree sector. No pleat spaces greater than 0.25" wide.



IMG_0550-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter 270 degrees
Nice even pleat spacing in the 270 degree sector. No pleat spaces greater than 0.25" wide.



IMG_0551-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter dome end with combo valve in place
This is a dome end view without the leaf spring in place. The combo valve is in place on the base plate. The 8 vertical supports are in clear view. The 5 intermediate rings are visible while the top and bottom ring can not be seen.



IMG_0552-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Leaf spring
The leaf spring actually seals quite tightly in the dome end of the filter and holds everything together very well.



IMG_0553-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Combo valve on base plate
The combo valve has a relatively wide land to seal against the base plate and does not interfere with the inlet or bypass holes.



IMG_0554-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter thread end
They almost missed the mark on the thread end filter end cap.



IMG_0556-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter on base plate without combo valve
This view clearly shows the bypass inlet holes are well within the ID of the cage.



IMG_0557-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Filter without dome end cap
The end cap was not as easily pulled off as the previous AC Delco PF1250 that I cut & posted. Pleat spacing was very even and glued well.



IMG_0558-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-New style cage
The new cage has 8 verticle supports and 7 rings to support the media. This design change reduces the window size and the vertical supports can also lend support to the media. A free flowing design with reduced risk of media blowout. I prefer this design over the old one.



IMG_0559-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-New style cage #2
Second view of the new cage.



IMG_0560-ACDelco PF1250-15125ES-Old vs New style cage
Side by side old cage on the left with new cage on the right. The new cage has 8 verticle supports and 7 rings to support the media. This design change reduces the window size and the vertical supports can also lend support to the media. A free flowing design with reduced risk of media blowout. I prefer this design over the old one.


The measurements:
Filter assembly height: 2-3/16"
Paper width: 2-1/8"
Number of pleats: 54
2X pleat depth: 1.5"
Media area: 172.125 sq in.
Filter OD: 3-3/16"
Core OD: 1-11/16"
Core ID: 1-1/2"
4 pleats were 0.25" wide
Thread end cap peeled off very easily
Cage height: 2-1/8"
8 vertical supports 45 degrees apart
7 circles on 1/3" centers


In summary this is a well manufactured filter with a new cage design. The dome end fiber cap peeled off with a good amount of effort I do not think this will be a problem in use. The end caps of the Champ Labs PH820 were very tightly glued and I tore the fiber end cap getting it off on that cut and post. There were four 0.25" wide pleats which I don't believe would cause a problem either. I prefer to use one with the new cage design over the old cage design. I really do not have the necessary equipment to evaluate the media but this media looks pretty good and potentially thicker than the Champ Labs PH820.

If I had old ones in the stash, I would not pitch them, I would check them out and use them up if they don't cause issues.

There is one thing missing in these photos. There is absolutely no RUST!!!

In about 1 month, I will have 5000 miles on one with the new cage design to do a used filter cut and post.


Until then, enjoy the post.


Related links:

New AC Delco PF1250 old design cut and post
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4023398/New_AC_Delco_PF1250_%2825014520%29

New WIX 51372
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ut_#Post4009590

Unused CarQuest R85372-A43301
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...cut#Post4002381

Unused Champ PH820-011514ES1
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...d_c#Post3998005

Unused Motorcraft FL-820S-909031527
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3997575/Motorcraft_FL-820S_Date_code:_#Post3997575

Used (Torn) Motorcraft FL-820S-904121217
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...Dat#Post3994569

Used Firestone TF4651-092314ES
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...Dat#Post3994624


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: WellOiled] #4030045
03/05/16 05:47 PM
03/05/16 05:47 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
The new center tube cage looks pretty good now - smaller windows and beefier structure. Still don't like the way the end caps are bonded to the pleats, or the combo valve. The end caps look much thicker than in some eCore filters (ie, old SuperTechs were paper thin).

Here's a nice Julian Date calendar to decipher the date code with for those who don't have one to reference.

http://www.skjos.net/garand/images/Julian%20Date.jpg

Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: WellOiled] #4030088
03/05/16 06:34 PM
03/05/16 06:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,906
Northern Kentucky
901Memphis Offline
901Memphis  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 12,906
Northern Kentucky
Much better cage design, that tells you they knew there was an issue


2012 Chevy Cruze LT 1.4T - 50k
2002 Buick Century 130k - Built 4T65e(Maxlife) - Edge 0w40 + Fram XG3980
Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: 901Memphis] #4030110
03/05/16 06:57 PM
03/05/16 06:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,932
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Kira Offline
Kira  Offline
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 5,932
Champlain/Hudson Valley
Heavens ZeeO six, that calendar layout you linked to sure makes a year look small. Kira

Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: ZeeOSix] #4030165
03/05/16 08:08 PM
03/05/16 08:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline OP
WellOiled  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
ZeeOSix - I agree with you, the bonding on these could be better. The first AC Delco I cut, the cover separated from the media way too easily. This one took some effort. The Champion PH820, I tore the end cap getting it off. There seems to be some variables they have not worked out. They might need a bit more hot glue wicking into the thicker covers. I have not yet noticed any issues with the anti drain back function or the bypass function. In my view we really have not had winter here. The stethoscope confirmed the filter is not in bypass on cold startup and the alternator is the noisiest accessory on the engine. I will do a cut and post on current filter when my oil change comes due.

So far the best one I have cut is the standard WIX filter. And I got those mail order for a bit over a dollar more than AC Delcos. So for a dollar it is a no brainer.

Anything that does not tear is a plus in my view.

Thanks for the Julian calendar that is a good one. Much better than what I have been doing.


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: WellOiled] #4030182
03/05/16 08:29 PM
03/05/16 08:29 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
ZeeOSix Offline
ZeeOSix  Offline
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 19,260
PNW
Originally Posted By: WellOiled
ZeeOSix - I agree with you, the bonding on these could be better. The first AC Delco I cut, the cover separated from the media way too easily. This one took some effort. The Champion PH820, I tore the end cap getting it off. There seems to be some variables they have not worked out. They might need a bit more hot glue wicking into the thicker covers.


Yep, the bonding between the end caps and pleats doesn't always seem real good on some of the eCores.

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
I have not yet noticed any issues with the anti drain back function or the bypass function. In my view we really have not had winter here. The stethoscope confirmed the filter is not in bypass on cold startup and the alternator is the noisiest accessory on the engine.


Please give details on how you used the stethoscope to determine if the bypass valve was opening or not.

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
Thanks for the Julian calendar that is a good one. Much better than what I have been doing.


No problem, I just happened to come across that one and it seemed easy to read, so thought others might like to use it too.

Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: WellOiled] #4030234
03/05/16 09:25 PM
03/05/16 09:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,996
United States of America
mjoekingz28 Offline
mjoekingz28  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,996
United States of America
WellOiled,

In the Wix thread you say it was ~ seven dollars from an auto parts store.




Why is this AC Delco filter not labeled with an E suffix?

Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: WellOiled] #4030245
03/05/16 09:35 PM
03/05/16 09:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,408
Kansas
Kruse Offline
Kruse  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,408
Kansas
I've used some E-Cores in the past and was always a little worried about the media blowing out. With this improvement, I'd sleep good at night without any worries.
The new E-Core should be CrazyOilDude's "go to" filter.....

Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: ZeeOSix] #4030252
03/05/16 09:45 PM
03/05/16 09:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline OP
WellOiled  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
[quote=WellOiled]ZeeOSix - I agree with you, the bonding on these could be better. The first AC Delco I cut, the cover separated from the media way too easily. This one took some effort. The Champion PH820, I tore the end cap getting it off. There seems to be some variables they have not worked out. They might need a bit more hot glue wicking into the thicker covers.


Yep, the bonding between the end caps and pleats doesn't always seem real good on some of the eCores.

Originally Posted By: WellOiled
I have not yet noticed any issues with the anti drain back function or the bypass function. In my view we really have not had winter here. The stethoscope confirmed the filter is not in bypass on cold startup and the alternator is the noisiest accessory on the engine.


Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Please give details on how you used the stethoscope to determine if the bypass valve was opening or not.


I have heard filters in bypass before say at 10F or 20F. They can make considerable noise. In this case it was only close to 32F. So I mapped out all the points I wanted to check. I used the stethoscope to isolate / localize the noise. I started the engine and quickly checked the PS pump, idler and tensioner, and alternator. I was able to check the filter for noise and it was quiet. All the noise came from the alternator bearings. 27 miles later and the alternator is quiet. What irritates me is I just replaced this alternator about 6 months ago. At 32F and 5W30, this filter could not have been in bypass unless it was defective. What would be cool (no pun intended) would be to listen to the filter in bypass as it goes out of bypass so you know for certain. With 5w30 it just is not cold enough here to check it.


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: mjoekingz28] #4030261
03/05/16 10:07 PM
03/05/16 10:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline OP
WellOiled  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: mjoekingz28
WellOiled,

In the Wix thread you say it was ~ seven dollars from an auto parts store.




Why is this AC Delco filter not labeled with an E suffix?


This filter was purchased from Pepboys for about $7.

As to why AC Delco does not use the E I do not know.

PF1250 is eCore
PF-1250F is eCore 12 pack
PF1250CL is classic
PF1250FCL is classic 12 pack


Last edited by WellOiled; 03/05/16 10:14 PM.

2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: Kruse] #4030266
03/05/16 10:11 PM
03/05/16 10:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline OP
WellOiled  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
Originally Posted By: Kruse
I've used some E-Cores in the past and was always a little worried about the media blowing out. With this improvement, I'd sleep good at night without any worries.
The new E-Core should be CrazyOilDude's "go to" filter.....


I have used perhaps 100s of AC Delco filters so I have no fear in using one. However, the glue job could be better. See the exchange ZeeOSix and I had.


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: WellOiled] #4030279
03/05/16 10:32 PM
03/05/16 10:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline OP
WellOiled  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
i have following to look at:

STP S2 from AutoZone
Parts Plus PH820 (not the same as Champ PH820) ordered the Champ and Amazon shipped a Parts Plus
Fram PH2
Fram TG2

Which one would you be most interested in?

The Parts Plus may not always be readily available.


2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: WellOiled] #4030420
03/06/16 06:24 AM
03/06/16 06:24 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,629
The Old North State
Sayjac Offline
Sayjac  Offline
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 12,629
The Old North State
First and foremost, I have no problem with the filter anyone chooses to use. Free country.

That out of the way, appears some improvements to the cage and media pleating uniformity on this ACDelco ecore have been made. That should help with the blown out media that has occurred on some ecore anecdotes posted here over the years. And the ecore 'type' nylon cage design has long been used successfully in cartridge filter applications, and continues to be.

However, referenced ACD still uses a nitrile combo valve shown. I've said often one thing to use nitrile/rubber which is known to harden faster than silicon and thus 'generally' used on lower tier or more value line filters. It's one thing when nitrile controls just the adbv function, worst one might get with loss of pliability is a start up rattle from drain back. Not a significant issue.

But when nitrile/rubber also controls the much more critical bypass function, another matter. And as the ultimate proof of that fact, the new made for newer GM vehicle ACDelco ecores completely eschew the use of a combo valve. Instead GM has spec'd the traditional dome end Fram poppet type bypass. That tells me what GM thinks of the combo valve for use in standard oci's.

So, while the improvements noted look good, the continued use of a combo valve wouldn't make this filter, one I would chase. While likely 'ok' for a 3-5k mi. oci, just not my preference over other similar tier filters (or higher tier at similar cost) using tradition metal dome or thread end bypass. To each their own. My .02

Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: WellOiled] #4030430
03/06/16 06:49 AM
03/06/16 06:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,996
United States of America
mjoekingz28 Offline
mjoekingz28  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,996
United States of America
Thanks for cutting and providing detailed cataloguing .


I somehow seemed to have missed alot of the other filters you have posted.

I have a queue to look at, and compare, this Delco with the Wix, Champ and the CQ you have assessed.

Re: New AC Delco PF1250 15125ES cut and post [Re: Sayjac] #4030884
03/06/16 04:01 PM
03/06/16 04:01 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
WellOiled Offline OP
WellOiled  Offline OP
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,515
Houston, Texas
Building on what Sajac said. I believe that GM discovered there are real issues with combo valve functions. For proper anti drain back valve function, the filter would need a soft pliable rubber lasting the full OCI/OFI with some margin. For proper bypass valve function, the filter would need a much harder rubber that lasts with some margin. These two can not be optimized with a single piece nitrile combo valve. By separating the functions, both can be optimized.

As a real example the Fram Extra guard uses a nitrile ADBV and a separate dome end bypass valve. I submit Fram optimized the filter for 3k to 5k miles with some margin for conventional oil changes. For 6k to 10k miles the Fram Tough Guard uses a silicone ADBV and separate dome end bypass valve. Again both functions can be optimized with margin.

The CQ Red has a very soft and pliable nitrile ADBV and a separate bypass valve, however the pleat spacing was incredibly wide. I think it might break in use. I will avoid this one for the moment. Many BITOG goers swoon over this filter. Time will tell.

The WIX standard filter has a soft pliable silicone ADBV and a separate bypass valve. I mail ordered these for a little over $4 plus postage. If I stopped here, this would be the one.

I will use up the AC Delco PF1250's and not buy any more. The glue job could be better. In the Houston area, they will do fine for 5k miles. If I lived in the center of the country I would eschew these to borrow Sajac's language.

The Motorcraft FL-820S just simply tore. So what good does a silicone ADBV and thread end bypass valve do for the engine when the media tears? Some Motorcraft users swoon over these too.

Does a great quality filter exist for less than $4 USD street prices?

Users should consider that nitrile rubber does work harden with use and loses pliability over time.

When I started this project, the MC filter was going for $3.56 at WM. I was initially looking for filters with price points less than $4.

Last edited by WellOiled; 03/06/16 04:08 PM.

2004 Ford Ranger 4.0L V6
Valvoline Advanced Full Synthetic 5W30 + Fram Tough Guard
Page 1 of 2 1 2

BOB IS THE OIL GUY® Powered by UBB.threads™