Unbelievable!

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I don't see it as being as simple as black or white. Sure there are trends, but most of what you see as racial problems are concentrated in certain areas. My town for example is 60% black 36% white. The majority of people here white or black are good people. We do have a lot of problems with drugs and thefts by both whites and blacks, but most of us live and work together and get along just fine.

Then if you go north to Albany, there is so much black on black crime that the people of the community have started neighborhood watches because of it.

I guess using yall's terminology it would be warring factions within the tribes.
 
Sure each area has its dynamic but if you're black, your social and economic mobility is more constrained because of attitudes.
 
That only goes so far.

I'm not black, but when I was a kid I had a perfectly good and innocent attitude. Yet I suffered from racism, overt or otherwise.

I do agree that if you're determined you'll find a way around these things. The question though is should you have to put up with it? And how much is too much. A lot of people seem to define the standard of what black people should put up with. Kind of the same as judges who overall punish blacks disproportionately.

Another question: Should women have to work as hard to earn less? Or have to work harder to get promotions? It's been proven time and time again that they are discriminated against. Should they change their attitude too?
 
Originally Posted By: TrevorS

However, when was the last time it was pointed out that perhaps the more serious crimes and anti social behaviors by Wall St, politicians and Lobbyists is a white cultural problem?



I figure you can neatly sweep this group into the vilified "one percenter" category if you want. Naturally there are also one percenters who got there honestly who carp about being swept up on a class warfare net.

If I bumped into the CEO of Bank of America on the street in casual clothes I wouldn't recognize him. If I ran into someone online I wouldn't know their race or gender. About all I could go on to prejudge is their competence in grammar and ability to write a persuasive argument with limited verbosity.
 
If I were to vilify 1% of the population (3 million people?) then that would be the same prejudging behavior.

It's a smaller number of people and not strictly defined by them being the top 0.0x% of earners.

Take the NRA - Restaurant not Rifle - led by Herman Cain.

These guys have successfully lobbied to hold the minimum wage for tipped restaurant workers at the same level for 22 years at, wait for it, $2.13 an hour.
 
No one should have to put up with discrimination, but it will never end. Some people are just closed minded, others haven't had enough positive experiences with other races due to where they live. The media doesn't help either.

The minimum wage issue, I'm not sure about. On one hand I don't think there should be a minimum wage. You get what you pay for.
 
Problem with the minimum wage for tipped restaurant workers is that these workers are becoming the poorest workers in our country. They use food stamps twice as frequently as the US average and are three times more likely to be below the poverty line.

And 1 in 10 Americans work in restaurants.
 
That isn't a problem with minimum wage though, as long as someone is willing to work for what the job is paying then the employers don't have any reason to offer more pay. Unless they want better quality than they can get at that price.
 
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Technically you're correct, but it doesn't do the country any good when so many costs to society are incurred by doing things on the cheap.

One way or the other we pay for these people and the results if doing things as cheaply as possible. Low wages and poor benefits mean we pay through food stamps, subsidized healthcare eg emergency room, food standards dropping so customers get sick.

If a minimum wage passes the costs onto consumers rather than tax payers, its a far better solution. Less government and less subsidizing from taxpayers who don't visit such restaurants.
 
Originally Posted By: itguy08
Doesn't sureprise me. Grew up in North Jersey and you don't get involved unless you want to get shot. And since you can't carry to protect yourself you are very likely to get shot. Best thing to do is call the cops from a safe distance.

And I'm not sure about the race baiting. I think it has more to do with differences than anything else. The area they went to has a low black population so any would look out of place. I wonder if the role would be reversed if they took the the premise down to the ghetto of Newark. Would be interesting to see if white kids got the cops called and the black kids didn't.


I suspect that is the case. See someone out of place and it attracts attention.

Anyone who has spent anytime in a city knows that you learn to ignore a lot. Getting involved can get messy. Its a long way from the rural midwest in Camden.
 
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Originally Posted By: TrevorS

Which leads me to another point which is how some got defensive about how this was all one way and anti white. Like a few said, it was to show how tribes behave. Yes it wanted to portray the black experience of this but that doesn't automatically mean that anyone denies the principle that this happens in reverse too.


Really? So how come they did not show white kids trashing a car in black neighbourhood?
There is nothing generic about these two videos and they were certainly not meant to show tribal behaviour in general. They were meant to show how white people react to black people, period. There was never any implication in those videos that black people would react the same to white kids trashing the car.
You can sugar coat this all you want, but these videos were meant to be one sided.
 
I was listening to the professors explanation of the behavior rather than jumping to biased conclusions.

It was surprising to see the lack of calling police period and the differential rate between the two groups of kids. It tells us that the majority of people don't get involved while there is a significant minority who seem to react if criminals are black.

There are plenty of other videos in the same series. You can see similar rates of apathy in other situations. You also find a few people who defend people on the end of racist behavior.

Again, I don't see why people link evidence of racism against black kids with examples of racism against whites.

Both are wrong but the fact is that on the whole, racism against black people is worse, purely due to the numbers and they belonging to the minority. Majorities always pick on minorities.

For me, an analogy of this would be getting up here and complaining about rates of domestic violence or sexual harassment against women and the response being that women do it to men also.
 
You don't correct broad brush painting (racism) with other broad brush painting (majorities always pick on minorities.)

I don't know if it was addressed in the thread so far, but I think one of the strikes against many minorities is the inability or unwillingness to conform to the social mores of the majority.

Looking at who immigrates to this nation, it seems those who conform to the social standards do well. Those who cannot or will not don't do well.

Once cannot look at just one variable to judge what is going on. There are many minority groups who immigrate here, knowing full well they are not the majority, who do well, if not better than their contemporaries in the majority who are born here.

So it's more than simply a racial issue. It's also an issue of what each population is doing with respect to fitting in with the population.

I'm not saying there are not racist whites. I'm simply saying that blacks and others who refuse to stop living in the 1860's, claiming they are still oppressed may be erecting many of the roadblocks they claim prevent them from succeeding in US society.

Borrowing from the parlance today, it was the 1 percenters who owned slaves and that was ended in the South years before the Civil War. So chances are, few whites here are related to anyone who owned slaves and with the exception of a few Saudi Princess' who were caught with slaves, I don't think anyone alive in the US today is or ever has been a slave owner.

I for one am weary of the attempt to shift the blame to me and my generation for the continued "black struggle."

We had the Treyvon Martin case, but where is the outrage over black on black crime which kills hundreds if not thousands for every white killing a black? That's not the white man keeping folks down. The black community is doing that to itself.

Having 16 different kids with 16 different "baby daddies" is another white man keeping the black man down? Not hardly. Dropping out of school, another white man keeping the black man down?

Oh, and sagging. We totally made that up to see if folks would fall for it. Looks like that worked too.

Sarcasm aside. My point is, the time is past for blaming white folks and blaming racism for where the black community finds itself today. Other groups have figured out how to succeed in America.

Final point. Who sold the slaves to European slave traders? African tribes did. They sold rival tribe members to the traders. Imagine, blacks selling other blacks into slavery.

I have no white guilt over this. I'm saddened that many continue to point fingers at others instead of spending the time, treasure and energy needed to address their own issues.

I may not know what it means to be black, but I also don't know what it means to be an oppressive, bigoted white slave owner. I resent that folks would paint with a broad brush and try to blame me for their choices.

I've worked with talented and hardworking folks of all creeds, races, colors, genders and faiths.

Success or failure is not due to any of the descriptive factors mentioned in the previous sentence. Success or failure is due to hard work, perseverance and if it's long lasting, good character.

Those who are racist may deny themselves the most talented and pay the consequence by not being able to compete against those they dismissed due to such superficial descriptive factors.

Those who play the victim card may deny themselves access to many opportunities by not adopting the characteristics that lead to success.

This is true, regardless your race, color, creed, gender, faith or sexual orientation.

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
I was listening to the professors explanation of the behavior rather than jumping to biased conclusions.

It was surprising to see the lack of calling police period and the differential rate between the two groups of kids. It tells us that the majority of people don't get involved while there is a significant minority who seem to react if criminals are black.

There are plenty of other videos in the same series. You can see similar rates of apathy in other situations. You also find a few people who defend people on the end of racist behavior.

Again, I don't see why people link evidence of racism against black kids with examples of racism against whites.

Both are wrong but the fact is that on the whole, racism against black people is worse, purely due to the numbers and they belonging to the minority. Majorities always pick on minorities.

For me, an analogy of this would be getting up here and complaining about rates of domestic violence or sexual harassment against women and the response being that women do it to men also.
 
Again, I'm mystified why it appears these observations are taken personally, defensively or comparatively.

I don't disagree with much of what you say. I can simultaneously say that generally blacks suffer from stereotyping but also don't help them themselves.

I think its important that we all appreciate how others are made to feel and to think whether we, completely unwittingly, play a part in that.

The fact that many have negative impressions of black people must surely play a role in how you treat them, even if unconsciously. That's what the clip was showing. People who didn't think they were racist behaved with certain feelings and assumptions.
 
Can't always defeat your programming. But racism is very clearly present on all sides. Yet the preoccupation these days is with the application of labeling to only whites as it relates to blacks. Black on white crime is minimized, even though statistics do not support the focus.

Javacontour said it well, we employ black PEOPLE here and they are great to work with. We have had both white and black who could not perform, they are long gone. We make our decisions based on performance by specific metrics, not color or creed/tribe.

The crime stats are very revealing. So are the birth and family unit stats. They clearly show that there is a specific issue in the Black community that is getting worse and is horribly destructive. Whites of course face many of the exact same issues yet the stats are overwhelmingly indicative of a specific issue. Until the Media begins promoting another agenda expect more "racist" videos and perhaps more guilty white folk...
 
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Originally Posted By: AVB
That isn't a problem with minimum wage though, as long as someone is willing to work for what the job is paying then the employers don't have any reason to offer more pay. Unless they want better quality than they can get at that price.


Landlords and utilites don't take less...if a person has a choice between not paying 100% of their bills, or not paying 20% of their bills, they will do what they can to be "less bad".

Withholding their labour, or holding out for better pay puts them back at defaulting on the 100% part.

i.e. much easier to say from the armchair than the firing line.
 
Probably as mystified as I am to hear that whites are racist.

I shouldn't take that personally, be defensive, or consider it to be a comparative statement when a comparison is made in the example?

To borrow from what you wrote,

Quote:

I think its important that we all appreciate how others are made to feel and to think whether we, completely unwittingly, play a part in that


Wittingly or unwittingly, your actions in posting this link plays a part in how I feel.

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Again, I'm mystified why it appears these observations are taken personally, defensively or comparatively.

I don't disagree with much of what you say. I can simultaneously say that generally blacks suffer from stereotyping but also don't help them themselves.

I think its important that we all appreciate how others are made to feel and to think whether we, completely unwittingly, play a part in that.

The fact that many have negative impressions of black people must surely play a role in how you treat them, even if unconsciously. That's what the clip was showing. People who didn't think they were racist behaved with certain feelings and assumptions.
 
Originally Posted By: AVB
My dad had something similar happen in NJ, he was up there painting a water treatment plant in the early 90's. My dad was in the grocery store shopping and his workers who were black were waiting for him in the truck. Come to find out black people don't live and weren't welcome in that town, so someone called the police. It turned into a pretty big deal. One of the men who were with him was telling me a few years ago that the police were just waiting for a chance to shoot them on the side of the road. It scared those black men, they would not go back up there.



Wow. This reminds me of when I worked in Detroit. We had a carpenter who,once returning from Vietnam went into law enforcement in Detroit city in the late 60's till the 90's.
He was on an elite squad that was armoured and very well trained for hostile encounters.
He found God,then promptly retired and became a carpenter.
Anyways he told me umpteen stories,trying to find some lesson in it for me. He said once they got the call the squad cars would establish a perimeter,then they would drive in with their armoured van to deploy.
What truly disturbed me is he said they looked for the whites of their eyes.
In a few minutes the smoke clears,his unit heads home and they send in the firemen to clean up the mess.
It truly bothered me when he said that. What I got from it is they weren't looking to see if the people were armed,or anything else for that matter.
White eyes,BANG BANG. BANG.
He said often that he was unable to return the lives from the people who died by his hand but he can help people today to improve their tomorrows.
Another funny thing.
My sister took a self defence class while living in Brampton. Her instructor said point blank that if she was being attacked to scream fire and not help.
Apparently people will not answer a cry for help however the word fire brings spectators that may potentially help.
ISN'T THAT UNREAL?
 
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