That's why I watch about 90% of my Youtube in 2x speed. People think I'm crazy, but I get more for less time spent.
Watching things 1x is a drag now.
Tribologist discusses 0W8 motor oil
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Watching things 1x is a drag now.
Remember when monetized video wasn't a thing and you could actually read articles? Now we're stuck with 30 minute videos for 3 minutes of actual content that you could have skimmed in 60 seconds if it were written text.
Maybe it's not a case of having to "overcome" anything. Maybe the thin oil engine prefers thin oil because it was built with that in mind.
I say that acknowledging that anything less than Xw-40 would certainly kill one of our engines in short order. It was either built or has worn to a point where sustaining oil pressure under heavy load at low RPM requires thickie fill. So the right tool for that job is the thick stuff. If I could conveniently buy Xw-50 diesel oil, I would.
So if you did an apples-to-apples comparison in the same engine, it would be moot. 0w-8/16 in appropriate applications. 5w-30 in appropriate applications. Additive packages to taste.
Oils and additives can't really fix design and or manufacturing problems.
There was a study posted here and discussed a few year ago iirc, that compared a few oils with the same add pack but in diferent viscosity grades, and the one with the highest HTHS viscosity showd the least wear. No surprise, because viscosity will always rule when more film thickness gives more parts separation film and wear protection when all other operating variables are constant.
He showed a slide that had ionic liquids mentioned. Thats an interesting additive (if used) thats unknown to the typical DIYer here and probably isnt shown right in the current UOA. these might be the key to the new 0W-8/12 engine oil performance.
Not sure those engine prefer that thinner oil, but they can certainly tolerate them better because of their specific design. The parts clearances in those engines really are not much different than in modern engines specifying a xW-40 or xW-50, like a C8 Vette or a Mustang Shelby, or motorcycles that rev to 12K RPM and spec xW-40 and 50 oils. Journal bearing clearences (and other parts clearances) have been optimized to basically the same in all engines for decades.
An engine specifying a 0W-8 could run a xW-40 or xW-50 and not be harmed (it would lose some MPG of course), but running a 0W-8 in a C8 Vette, Mustang Shelby or motorcycles would be a different story.
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He kept it to 16 minutes - good
I'm not picking on anything he said, really, not nitpicking - good
No engine is built for a grade and doesn’t prefer it either. It’s either adequate to prevent excessive wear or it isn’t.
As ZeeOsix notes it can tolerate low HT/HS.
Interesting.
I had a discussion about this the other week with the main engineer from a major OEM.
It’s less about the oil. More about the manufacturing techniques and materials. His consensus was; it’s not worth the squeeze right now.
But the oil technology and manufacturing technology is there. Just not cost effective.
I had a discussion about this the other week with the main engineer from a major OEM.
It’s less about the oil. More about the manufacturing techniques and materials. His consensus was; it’s not worth the squeeze right now.
But the oil technology and manufacturing technology is there. Just not cost effective.
My thought was that if we can’t see a practical difference in an application where known boundary/mixed contact occurs, then how much can additives really help? I’d imagine putting 0W8 in a Corvette is going to yield some results that could look like a “design flaw”. Imperfect and anecdotal, yes. Perhaps these new ultra thin oils do have novel additives that do help with the journal bearings though.
You could probable drive around in it like a grocery getter most of the time and not cause much added wear. It certainly wouldn't "blow-up" the engine. One menber here is famous for doing that in a Ferrari (using oil 2-3 grades lower than spec). But take it out on a track and beat it hard for 30-45 minutes at a time, and do that multiple times. I'd bet you'd see some BMW like wear on the journal bearings after some of that action. Probably wouldn't spin a bearing and window the block, or maybe it would, lol.
I still watch a ton more of my curated list on Youtube as opposed to whatever it is that is shown on 'normal tv'.
So according to the chart he shows, 0W-8 requires a large dose of super-rare, expensive, unobtanium additives to perform on par with an off-the-shelf 5W-30. I will watch the follow-up UOA reports with interest. He seems to be well aware that the only reason Toyota is pushing 0W-8 and long oil change intervals is the Cafe standard credits. Place your bets now. If he keeps this 0W-8 in the crankcase for the full 10k miles, I bet the wear metals will be way up.
BTW, in another recently published lubricity test by PF, Toyota-brand oil came dead last when compared to equivalent Motorcraft, ACDelco, Mopar and Mobil1 oils. Disappointing. I hoped for a better result.
BTW, in another recently published lubricity test by PF, Toyota-brand oil came dead last when compared to equivalent Motorcraft, ACDelco, Mopar and Mobil1 oils. Disappointing. I hoped for a better result.
Link to the paper he briefly shows in the video:
www.osti.gov
Using Ionic Liquid Additive to Enhance Lubricating Performance for Low-Viscosity Engine Oil (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV
The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information
www.osti.gov
Thanks for the link. Interesting stuff, especially under References. So the rare, expensive, unobtanium additives are Ionic Liquids. If I understand correctly, these are basically salts in liquid state which supposedly have friction/wear reducing properties but their chemical stability is still debated (potentially reducing oil shelf life?). I wonder if the Toyota 0W-8 contains any ILs and whether the OA labs will test for them.Link to the paper he briefly shows in the video:
Using Ionic Liquid Additive to Enhance Lubricating Performance for Low-Viscosity Engine Oil (Journal Article) | OSTI.GOV
The U.S. Department of Energy's Office of Scientific and Technical Information
wemay
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As I'm sure occurred in the advent of "multi-viscosity" oils, and Xw30 vs Xw40/50 and so on.
The push for better fuel economy didn't begin with 0/5W-20.
4WD
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OMG - the thick crowd will put 0W20 in their Corolla bcs they track them on WE’s 
In typical bitoger mentality, if more of a good thing is better, more of a non-bad thing must be in the direction of goodness too. (0w-40 in all things!)
Tolerate vs prefer vs agnostic. Either wear is present due to metal parts touching or it isn't. If it isn't, the lubricant is doing its intended job through one or more mechanisms.
Perhaps it's not all about the MFT. For example, there is a following for HPL no-vi/low-vi on bitog for a reason. Threads focusing on IVD as a aspect of oil selection do happen. If toyota figures they've achieved wear targets, are they now going after other wholistic aspects of the engine/lubricant system? (Tiny fuel economy gains being one of them?)
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