Valvoline restore and protect ford 3.7

KCJeep said:
We are not off to a good start here. šŸ˜±. Discussions can be profitable, arguments rarely so.
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It's ok...when someone offends the Castrol, mobil 1 and pennzoil hierarchy they'll try to find ways to nit pick lol not my first foray with forums
 
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mostanggt95 said:
So you're telling me based on the analysis of not only mine...a mere hobbyist, but my uncle who's been a mechanic for 40 years and my cousin who's been a mechanic for 12, both of whom who have been repairing cars and rebuilding engines and have done a few waterpumps on 3.7 stangs, f150's with the external waterpump as well as transverse who have saved their customers potentially $1200+ dollars on a rebuild or diff engine simply because they noticed the oil getting a little milky during the oil change are wrong? And after replacing waterpump the oil was not milky at the next oci after replacing the water pump? I think you are misinformed bud
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Let me add...the guy I bought my rebuilt engine off of was a retired machinist...specializing in...engine rebuilds I don't know...if a machinist also confirmed having the same issue then on tear down saw the bearings getting decently wiped...Id listen. Now back to the oil. Valvoline R&P good
 
mostanggt95 said:
Let me add...the guy I bought my rebuilt engine off of was a retired machinist...specializing in...engine rebuilds I don't know...if a machinist also confirmed having the same issue then on tear down saw the bearings getting decently wiped...Id listen. Now back to the oil. Valvoline R&P good
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You should see if Triax is hiring. They could use some more propaganda based on bad information.

IBTL šŸ˜±
 
hemitom said:
I have used Valvoline in three mustangs mind you not the restore and protect version and never an issue.
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I'm getting a little thrown off here not gonna lie...might want to read my posts...valvoline good! I've used other valvoline synthetics in all my cars at various points they were one of the brands that burned the least. Valvoline good! R&P so far even better based on initial impressions
 
I do believe molybdenum plays a part in engine quietness and smoothness, but I am no tribologist.

OP, for your consideration, the Valvoline Extended Protection virgin oil analysis shows decently higher additives in almost every area over Restore and Protect. Iā€™m not sure what Iā€™m missing here, but in the VOA database on this forum, the EP shows double the moly versus the R&P and slightly higher in most other good elements.

I considered the R&P but realized the Valvoline Advanced and EP were nearly the same or appeared to have more of what we consider ā€œgoodā€ stuff in VOAs.

Might be worth trying the Advanced or EP in your vehicles if itā€™s more accessible in Canada than the R&P. I think I recall that R&P is a rebrand of what was Advanced for quite some timeā€¦

Anyone feel free to correct me if Iā€™m off in any of this!

Link to another thread with some interesting info
R&P
 
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stwremains said:
I do believe molybdenum plays a part in engine quietness and smoothness, but I am no tribologist.

OP, for your consideration, the Valvoline Extended Protection virgin oil analysis shows decently higher additives in almost every area over Restore and Protect. Iā€™m not sure what Iā€™m missing here, but in the VOA database on this forum, the EP shows double the moly versus the R&P and slightly higher in most other good elements.

I considered the R&P but realized the Valvoline Advanced and EP were nearly the same or appeared to have more of what we consider ā€œgoodā€ stuff in VOAs.

Might be worth trying the Advanced or EP in your vehicles if itā€™s more accessible in Canada than the R&P. I think I recall that R&P is a rebrand of what was Advanced for quite some timeā€¦

Anyone feel free to correct me if Iā€™m off in any of this!
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Could they be using trinuclear vs dinuclear moly, perhaps? Iā€™m not sure you can conclude anything about the relative performance from ppm on a VOA. Valvoline claims RP is its top of the line oil.
 
goingplacesanddoingstuff said:
Could they be using trinuclear vs dinuclear moly, perhaps? Iā€™m not sure you can conclude anything about the relative performance from ppm on a VOA. Valvoline claims RP is its top of the line oil.
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Right, I understand we have limited insight into the power of an oil just by a $35 analysis but it seems interesting that a bunch of the core stats are the same or similar. I do wonder what he unicorn pee in this R&P batch is all about, cause youā€™re right, Valvoline does indeed claim itā€™s their best oil.
 
mostanggt95 said:
I actually know it's buckets and not lifters...I just call it lifter tick because that's what it pretty much sounds like EXCUSE ME MR LET ME EDUCATE THE YOUNG...and the coolant leaking internally is a very well documented issue regardless of internal or external pump. We even tore down the old engine and confirmed the leak came from the waterpump INTERNALLY and not headgasket or a crack in the block somewhere. Get off your high horse.
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Well it's going to o be hard for any of us to believe any of your story when you're saying a water pump that's external leaked coolant into the oil system which it isn't connected to. It's physically not possible.
There is a tsb about a check valve that can cause the water pump to fail but it only leaks externally. Nothing on a google search about internal leaks on these mustang 3.7s. The problem you are claiming to have had is well documented on Taurus, Edge and explorers but nothing at all on the Mustang or trucks.
 
Coolant had to have been getting into the crankcase some other way-but, bearings get destroyed just the same either way. Cousin had an Edge that grenaded without warning because of sudden WP failure.
 
mostanggt95 said:
Very well documented issue...they leak internally, regardless of it being an internal chain driven pump on transverse cars or external serpentine belt driven pump on longitudinal cars...very well known nowadays to just change it out every 60k miles as preventative maintenance... infact the guy I bought my replacement engine from had the exact same thing happen on his 3.7 before he had it rebuilt
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I disagree. The n/a Cyclone engines with external water pumps do NOT have any reliability issues regarding internal water leak problems. You made the claim; I'd ask in fairness for you to provide some real documented proof (not anecdotal stories we cannot corroborate). You are conflating issues between the two applications (longitudinal vs transverse).

It's certainly possible that you had some other internal leak (head gasket for example). But that's outside the bounds of your emphasis here. You claim the external pumps on Cyclones are a problem. I find that incredibly hard to believe. There's no search history that supports your claim.
 
mostanggt95 said:
I actually know it's buckets and not lifters...I just call it lifter tick because that's what it pretty much sounds like EXCUSE ME MR LET ME EDUCATE THE YOUNG...
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If you know it's buckets, then you should understand that there is no hydraulic circuit in that valve actuation. How is it that you can claim this Valvoline product made a 70% reduction in "lifter tick", when those don't have the kind of actuation which causes the noise you claim????? I acknowledge that you claim to know it's not a "lifter"; OK - then just what is it that you believe is making the noise ???

"Lifter tick" is commonly associated with lifters that bleed down their oil pressure and then need to be pumped up upon engine start up. During that period when the lifters are not completely full of lube, they will "tick" (slap due to excess clearance) until full again. However, the DAMB (aka mechanical bucket; shim and bucket; etc) has no hydraulic circuit in them. The valve clearance is set by the shim under the bucket. That clearance relationship does NOT change with oil pressure; it simply can't.

DAMB is a very proven, well sorted system that is often used in very high-rpm applications (motorcycle sport bikes, for example). I cannot say why Ford chose DAMB for that Cyclone application, but it's been historically nothing but trouble free and very quiet. Whatever noise you are hearing (or perceiving) most certainly is NOT the "lifters" in the Cyclone. DAMB systems don't slap; they don't make ticking. It's absurd to associate noise in DAMB systems with any oil brand claims; the surfaces where the cam lobe and bucket meet are splash-lubricated (not pressure fed). Because DAMB rides directly over the valve stem, the lobe force required to lift the valve is much less than a traditional rocker-arm type arrangement. Hence, lower valve spring rates are needed. This makes them very smooth and quiet, especially at moderate rpms.

Sir - it's my belief that you're full of conjecture and hyperbole, and it's apparent to me that you don't understand what you're talking about.


BTW - our family has owned three different Cyclone engines in Taurus's; I'm very familiar with them.
 
The rwd 3.7 engines do have seals between the back of the water pump housing and the engine block, inside the timing cover. These could fail and cause problems. The transverse 3.7 have the whole water pump inside the timing cover so when the crappy plastic pump fails in any way it will cause problems
 
dumkid said:
The rwd 3.7 engines do have seals between the back of the water pump housing and the engine block, inside the timing cover. These could fail and cause problems. The transverse 3.7 have the whole water pump inside the timing cover so when the crappy plastic pump fails in any way it will cause problems
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True. But that's not what he claims caused the problem.

There is a coolant transfer tube between the inner block and the outer pump area on these longitudinal applications. In several videos, you can see that tube sticking out at the lower end of the pump area. But there are two seals (o-rings) for that tube; one inner at the block and one outer at the timing cover. Then there's a third one in the pump body that seals to that tube.

For a "water pump leak" to generate oil contamination inside one of these engines in this application, the coolant would somehow have to overcome the pump seal, making it drop to atmospheric pressure, then again defeat the other seal at the timing cover (overcoming something above a pressure of atmospheric conditions). NEVER in my life have I known a liquid at atmospheric pressure to be able to overcome a seal and fight its way INTO an engine.

He claims that the water pump leaked internally to the engine; pretty much impossible on this application. If it was the cross-over (transfer) tube seal that was the root cause, then he should have been specific. And at that point, if it's the seal on the tube, WHY ADAMANTLY BLAME THE WATER PUMP ??????????? If it was the seal on the tube at the timing cover, then say so. And why replace a water pump if the tube seal is what failed ? He specifically said it wasn't a head gasket or other problem; he directly blamed the water pump. A near improbability in this application. Since when does a pressurized fluid escape to atmospheric conditions, and then somehow fight it's was BACK into the engine past a secondary seal???? IF that seal leaks at the pump/tube junction, it just leaks down the timing cover to the ground. It surely does NOT force its past the second seal back inside the timing cover.
 
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Sounds like you have it all figured out, why make an advice thread? I highly recommend filing a patent for this finger-rubbing lubricity test, clearly this is something that has somehow eluded both the oil and engine manufacturers as well a the API and ACEA. This could be incredibly profitable, licensing this process to all of these agencies, replacing all that expensive testing equipment.
 
mostanggt95 said:
It's ok...when someone offends the Castrol, mobil 1 and pennzoil hierarchy they'll try to find ways to nit pick lol not my first foray with forums
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Welcome to BITOG..... Much like New Mexico, it's the land of enchantment.

And the hierarchy here doesn't really have 2 of those 3 in the top 3.
 
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