Made in China oil filters.. why all the hate?

[iExcel]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
I found an interesting observation at my local Canadian Tire a couple of days ago. Motomaster, The CT house brand changed their oil filter suppliers from Fram to a Chinese brand last year. Shelves were full of the new Chinese supplied Motomaster filters. Well, a couple of days ago I see all of the China filters are gone and all of the Fram ones are back.


I noticed this as well. There were still some of the Chinese Motomasters available, but you could see that the Fram-built filters are returning to the shelves.

Obviously there must be a rather significant reason for this..... I'm curious now!


Went to CT this weekend, and the china filters are almost gone. All newly stocked Fram built filters. I know you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but those filters gave me a bad impression first time I saw them. That shiny rough metal for threads was enough to put me off. I too would like to know the reason!
Why not give CT a call and find out why?

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Hootbro

This!

The Chinese can build to any quality standard that is asked of them. Most times it is not asked of them.


At the risk that a positive stereotype is still a stereotype, I still maintain that the Chinese are one of the most innovative ethnicities in the world.

It's not the people. It's the single party Communist state.

We saw that with Zastava/Yugo. Malcolm Bricklin went into Yugoslavia and set up some basic quality control. The initial Yugo GVs weren't that bad for being an out of date Fiat made with Eastern European materials. But then the West started to consume them in great numbers. (something like 1500 of them were sold in one day) There was no incentive for the factory workers to work harder, longer, and with any consistancy, No bonuses. No overtime. The quality slipped and you've got hundreds of Yugo jokes.

A man walks into an auto parts store and says,
"I'll take a gas cap for a Yugo"
"Sounds like a fair trade", says the couter worker.

Why do Yugo's have a heater for the back window?
To keep your hands warm when pushing

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
Originally Posted By: Hootbro

This!

The Chinese can build to any quality standard that is asked of them. Most times it is not asked of them.


At the risk that a positive stereotype is still a stereotype, I still maintain that the Chinese are one of the most innovative ethnicities in the world.

It's not the people. It's the single party Communist state.

We saw that with Zastava/Yugo. Malcolm Bricklin went into Yugoslavia and set up some basic quality control. The initial Yugo GVs weren't that bad for being an out of date Fiat made with Eastern European materials. But then the West started to consume them in great numbers. (something like 1500 of them were sold in one day) There was no incentive for the factory workers to work harder, longer, and with any consistancy, No bonuses. No overtime. The quality slipped and you've got hundreds of Yugo jokes.

A man walks into an auto parts store and says,
"I'll take a gas cap for a Yugo"
"Sounds like a fair trade", says the couter worker.

Why do Yugo's have a heater for the back window?
To keep your hands warm when pushing


Agreed, maybe a better way to describes these products is "cheap looking filters that happen to be made in China"

 

[greenaccord02]

They hate our freedoms.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: defektes
because you can get US made filters for little or no more cost and keep money here instead of china. If I stepped into your shop and you had chinese or mexican filters for .25 cents, I would go out of my way to pay 2.86 for a US made supertech, or even fram if it came down to it.


I wish I could purchase those Mexican built Amsoil filters for .25 each. I'd buy cases.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I don't have a current example but the Fram oil filters that came apart and were ingested into 80's Suzuki GS motors were reportedly repackaged Chinese filters.

If you do have an odd application that you cannot find a reasonably priced US/Canadian made filter for, you should probably be sticking with OEM.

Otherwise, it's just not worth it to risk your engine to a Chinese filter of unknown quality from the People's (not really the people's at all...) Republic (not as much a Republic as it is a single party Communist state )of China (it is China.which is historically the most innovative culture in the world....until Communism that is)


My oem filters are Denso Indonesia, and the Nissan filters we sell here are China

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I don't have a current example but the Fram oil filters that came apart and were ingested into 80's Suzuki GS motors were reportedly repackaged Chinese filters.

If you do have an odd application that you cannot find a reasonably priced US/Canadian made filter for, you should probably be sticking with OEM.

Otherwise, it's just not worth it to risk your engine to a Chinese filter of unknown quality from the People's (not really the people's at all...) Republic (not as much a Republic as it is a single party Communist state )of China (it is China.which is historically the most innovative culture in the world....until Communism that is)


My oem filters are Denso Indonesia, and the Nissan filters we sell here are China

Originally Posted By: eljefino
Hey Mainer... you've seen the Chinese "Pronto" filters VIP sells (sold?) on sale for $1.69. (I bet about their cost.) I haven't cut one open but the baseplate machining looks nice and I like the little plastic wrap cover to keep the inside from rusting from humidity. (I am not lumping "china" together as one factory.) I've used them, no rattles or obvious problems.

You want to undercut this?

What's your target customer, quick lube shops? They can already get filters for around $1.50 or so. I bet the bigger ones have heard of alibaba the wholesale importing website.

What's your sales angle on why they should switch to you? Price alone? Your LLC sounds small enough one ruined engine might do you in. I'm not being snide, just analyzing your business plan.

FWIW one can get purolator made $1.99 jobber filters at Advance auto, and, IIRC, white box wix's for about the same price elsewhere.

Haters... OP is starting his own business, not waiting for someone else to "give" him a job. Enterpreneurship = America, even if it could be replacing someone else's job. Henry Ford put a bunch of horseshoeing blacksmiths out of work...


A lot of the cheap wix filters are imported now though

 

[Pete C.]

Quote:
A lot of the cheap wix filters are imported now though

You have a source for this information? It would be better if you said "some" Wix Filter components are imported from China.
As for cheap, if you mean the less than Wix standards filters, manufactured to someone elses specs in a Wix facility, I guess you'd be correct. If you mean a Wix branded filter, you'd be 100% wrong. Just because we assemble it in our plants does not make it a Wix filter. FYI we sell filters to our competitors as they also sell to us. Does that make that Purolator labled filter you just installed, a Wix filter or is it a Purolator filter that Wix manufactured for Purolator to their requirements/specs?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Pete C.
FYI we sell filters to our competitors as they also sell to us. Does that make that Purolator labled filter you just installed, a Wix filter or is it a Purolator filter that Wix manufactured for Purolator to their requirements/specs?


So WIX sells filters to Purolator and Purolator puts their sticker on it? New one on me ... or was that just an bizarre example?

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Quote:
A lot of the cheap wix filters are imported now though

You have a source for this information? It would be better if you said "some" Wix Filter components are imported from China.
As for cheap, if you mean the less than Wix standards filters, manufactured to someone elses specs in a Wix facility, I guess you'd be correct. If you mean a Wix branded filter, you'd be 100% wrong. Just because we assemble it in our plants does not make it a Wix filter. FYI we sell filters to our competitors as they also sell to us. Does that make that Purolator labled filter you just installed, a Wix filter or is it a Purolator filter that Wix manufactured for Purolator to their requirements/specs?


By cheap I meant whatever a Napa ProSelect filter is. They Say Affina(sp?) on them, but at some point I noticed that many of the common numbers we stocked started coming with stampings of being made in other countries. The last one I took apart said made in the USA on the filter, and when I removed the filter element, it had "INDIA" stamped on it. So to me if the main component is imported, than the fitler is not really USA made.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
The last one I took apart said made in the USA on the filter, and when I removed the filter element, it had "INDIA" stamped on it. So to me if the main component is imported, than the fitler is not really USA made.


I think the correct term is "Assembled in the USA".

 

[My442]

The average Chinese factory worker makes $140 USD per month.

Compare that to the average US factory working making $2400.

Add in minimal to no environmental laws, no pensions, no health care, no benefits...and currency tricks....

The world revolves around COGS (cost of good sold) as a barometer for profit and loss.

There is NO WAY that the USA can compete. Even if labor is 10% of product cost, China trumps.

And, the majority of people here only care about low cost - they don't think about selling out to a communist country.

20 years from now, yhe USA will be a second rate power after allowing all the waelth prodicing jobs to leave.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: My442
The average Chinese factory worker makes $140 USD per month.

Compare that to the average US factory working making $2400.

Add in minimal to no environmental laws, no pensions, no health care, no benefits...and currency tricks....

The world revolves around COGS (cost of good sold) as a barometer for profit and loss.

There is NO WAY that the USA can compete. Even if labor is 10% of product cost, China trumps.

And, the majority of people here only care about low cost - they don't think about selling out to a communist country.

20 years from now, yhe USA will be a second rate power after allowing all the waelth prodicing jobs to leave.
Since the 1970s I have been reading that the Bringing the USA down to third world status is the plan.

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
The last one I took apart said made in the USA on the filter, and when I removed the filter element, it had "INDIA" stamped on it. So to me if the main component is imported, than the fitler is not really USA made.


I think the correct term is "Assembled in the USA".

It is still somewhat misleading to a average customer trying to do the right thing.

 

[Pete C.]

Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
So WIX sells filters to Purolator and Purolator puts their sticker on it? New one on me ... or was that just an bizarre example?


Nope that's the way it is. We're nice to our customers tho, we label the filters for them.

 

[Pete C.]

Originally Posted By: Johnny248
By cheap I meant whatever a Napa ProSelect filter is. They Say Affina(sp?) on them, but at some point I noticed that many of the common numbers we stocked started coming with stampings of being made in other countries. The last one I took apart said made in the USA on the filter, and when I removed the filter element, it had "INDIA" stamped on it. So to me if the main component is imported, than the fitler is not really USA made.


Oh I see, you were talking about a NAPA filter, not a Wix filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
So WIX sells filters to Purolator and Purolator puts their sticker on it? New one on me ... or was that just an bizarre example?


Nope that's the way it is. We're nice to our customers tho, we label the filters for them.


So WIX makes filters for Purolator and puts stickers that say "Purolator" on them?

 

[Pete C.]

I believe that is exactly what I said!

 

[Johnny248]

Originally Posted By: Pete C.
Originally Posted By: Johnny248
By cheap I meant whatever a Napa ProSelect filter is. They Say Affina(sp?) on them, but at some point I noticed that many of the common numbers we stocked started coming with stampings of being made in other countries. The last one I took apart said made in the USA on the filter, and when I removed the filter element, it had "INDIA" stamped on it. So to me if the main component is imported, than the fitler is not really USA made.


Oh I see, you were talking about a NAPA filter, not a Wix filter.


Right. I'm not sure how that Wix/Napa program works. Back in the day you had a Napa Gold which was a premium Wix, and a Napa Silver which was less expensive, did not have a silicone adbv etc. Then they switched from Silver to Pro Selected, which they seemed like they were still Wix filters, and had the normal Afina Gastonia, NC deal on them but noticed that they started to have other countries of origin on them. I don't think that Wix sells their economy filters under their own product line?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: Pete C.
I believe that is exactly what I said!


Well, that's pretty hard to believe that WIX actually makes oil filters for Purolator, and even puts a 'Purolator brand name' sticker on for them.

Will Purolator verify this is true?