Made in China oil filters.. why all the hate?

[Audioquest]

Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
I found an interesting observation at my local Canadian Tire a couple of days ago. Motomaster, The CT house brand changed their oil filter suppliers from Fram to a Chinese brand last year. Shelves were full of the new Chinese supplied Motomaster filters. Well, a couple of days ago I see all of the China filters are gone and all of the Fram ones are back.


I noticed this as well. There were still some of the Chinese Motomasters available, but you could see that the Fram-built filters are returning to the shelves.

 

[aquariuscsm]

How well are the Made In Mexico Wix filters compared to the US ones? The ones for my car are the Mexico filters. I do like the fact that the Frams are American made.

 

[bimmerdriver]

I generally distrust anything made in China. There are a few exceptions such as Lenovo computers, but many products made in China are garbage. Lenovo is probably an exception because it's a US brand.

Car and Driver tested tires a year or so ago and they included a set of Chinese tires which looked like Yokohama AVS. They were absolute garbage.

I was given a bench vice for Christmas a few years ago. It is a piece of [censored]. The casting looks like it was done in a child's sandbox.

The problem with China is that they have no accountability. Take the problems with many food products. They put melanine in pet food and baby formula and antifreeze in toothpaste. These products were toxic and in some cases fatal. Chinese manufacturers often put lead and other toxic chemicals in children's toys. Why would they do that, knowing that lead is toxic and was banned years ago? They reason is because they can get away with it.

If I have a choice to purchase a product made in China with a product made anywhere else, I will not purchase the product from China.

Coming back to oil filters, I would ask the question why would you purchase an oil filter made in China when there are so many other alternatives that are proven?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
I found an interesting observation at my local Canadian Tire a couple of days ago. Motomaster, The CT house brand changed their oil filter suppliers from Fram to a Chinese brand last year. Shelves were full of the new Chinese supplied Motomaster filters. Well, a couple of days ago I see all of the China filters are gone and all of the Fram ones are back.


I noticed this as well. There were still some of the Chinese Motomasters available, but you could see that the Fram-built filters are returning to the shelves.

Obviously there must be a rather significant reason for this..... I'm curious now!

 

[stuntboy79]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
We need to make stuff here. Our economic health relies on it. OTW bye bye USA.


+1

 

[webfors]

Buying anything that's made in China is 'buyer beware' and due diligence is required, IMHO. Not all stuff that is made in China is junk. There's a wide spectrum, from good products like my NAD audiophile system which happens to be made in China, to real bad, and some times dangerous products like toxic paint on toys for kids, or poisonous baby food.. why the heck is baby food made in China anyway, that's another rant of mine.

Just be an educated, and investigative, shopper. Blind shoppers are the ones that get bitten, not us Bitogers

As for the Motomaster chinese made filters, I wouldn't touch them.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I wouldn't trust the actual China filter in hand to meet the published data anyway. China dumps a lot of products here that are suppose to but actually don't meet quality specs.


I would agree that any Chinese vendor/exporter/producer/etc. will cut any possible corner that they think they can possibly get away with.

I doubt there's any issues with name brand filters produced in China. The facilities are co-owned by the manufacturer and basically they (the domestic filter man) run it. It's a jobs program brokered by our nobles.





Chinese factories are like factories anywhere else.
You get the quality you are willing to pay for.
There are high quality Chinese products.
The problem comes when a US importer arranges for reverse engineered products to be made under contract in China.
The Chinese contract factories will bid for the work, and the winning bid will end up so low that the contractor is forced to cut corners just to avoid a net loss per piece.
In the case of a relatively low value good, like an oil filter, there just isn't that much cost to safely cut, so there is the potential for a very low quality product.
Testing also does no good unless it is ongoing, since the cheapening process will be ongoing as well.
Kind of a perversion of continuous improvement.
So, yeah, you could make high quality oil filters in China for the US market, and by the time they get shipped here, they won't be a standout value, so they would not be particularly marketable.

 

[Gary Allan]

Everything you say is true ...except that if WIX produces filters in China ..they co-own the plant. They would own the whole thing except it's a requirement in China. Wix OPERATES the plant. Not some low life scum dirt bag with a commercial cultural mandate to cut your throat if able.

Where do you think GAP or GUEST (one or the other) is made? Bangladesh. I know many people from there. I asked if a wealthy American wanted to do a flood control project to save tens of thousands of lives every monsoon, how would he go about it. They laugh and say that the project would never get done. After you bribed the officials and contracted for the labor and goods, the contractor would either leave with your money ..or half of the goods would be hijacked ..or convenient complications would arise that doubled the cost.

It would be like an economic smorgasbord where locusts swooped in for lunch.

But GAP (or was it GUEST)'s product line is just fine. It's a way of them getting U$D to pay settle their petroleum and other tabs that require it.

 

[SERonBLAST]

If these filters are anything like the cheap china made Rotors that everybody seems to have, then i am sure they will be all rusty and ugly inside. And dont forget about the bootleg high end tires that come from there too, 10km tread wear. Brutal.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: webfors
Buying anything that's made in China is 'buyer beware' and due diligence is required, IMHO. Not all stuff that is made in China is junk. There's a wide spectrum, from good products like my NAD audiophile system which happens to be made in China, to real bad, and some times dangerous products like toxic paint on toys for kids, or poisonous baby food.. why the heck is baby food made in China anyway, that's another rant of mine.

Just be an educated, and investigative, shopper. Blind shoppers are the ones that get bitten, not us Bitogers

As for the Motomaster chinese made filters, I wouldn't touch them.

+1

Now I did get lucky on my generator. I ran to the store thinking of the countless $$$'s worth of food melting in my upright freezer.
Chinese: $399.
Onan: $699.
DeWalt: $1899.
Grab the Chinese...save the steaks.
And it has been an absolute trooper. I'm continuously amazed at how easy it starts and how well it runs.

But I expected it to be a piece of junk going in. Maybe get 50 hours out of it. But it keeps running. Company picnics. Church music outings at the park....etc...

But, my experience is not typical. You say caveat emptor. I say you won't be let down if you don't expect too much from your Chinese purchases.

But in the case of filters, the price difference is not worth the risk. I saved $300+, saved the contents of my freezer, and accidently ended up with a good product. With a filter, you could save .36 cents and trash your engine

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
I found an interesting observation at my local Canadian Tire a couple of days ago. Motomaster, The CT house brand changed their oil filter suppliers from Fram to a Chinese brand last year. Shelves were full of the new Chinese supplied Motomaster filters. Well, a couple of days ago I see all of the China filters are gone and all of the Fram ones are back.


I noticed this as well. There were still some of the Chinese Motomasters available, but you could see that the Fram-built filters are returning to the shelves.

Obviously there must be a rather significant reason for this..... I'm curious now!


Maybe those china filters were causing some engine failurers lol? It's entirely possible. But alos likely they weren't really saving much cost for the value or lack of they offered.

 

[iExcel]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: mechanicx
I wouldn't trust the actual China filter in hand to meet the published data anyway. China dumps a lot of products here that are suppose to but actually don't meet quality specs.


I would agree that any Chinese vendor/exporter/producer/etc. will cut any possible corner that they think they can possibly get away with.

I doubt there's any issues with name brand filters produced in China. The facilities are co-owned by the manufacturer and basically they (the domestic filter man) run it. It's a jobs program brokered by our nobles.





Chinese factories are like factories anywhere else.
You get the quality you are willing to pay for.
There are high quality Chinese products.
The problem comes when a US importer arranges for reverse engineered products to be made under contract in China.
The Chinese contract factories will bid for the work, and the winning bid will end up so low that the contractor is forced to cut corners just to avoid a net loss per piece.
In the case of a relatively low value good, like an oil filter, there just isn't that much cost to safely cut, so there is the potential for a very low quality product.
Testing also does no good unless it is ongoing, since the cheapening process will be ongoing as well.
Kind of a perversion of continuous improvement.
So, yeah, you could make high quality oil filters in China for the US market, and by the time they get shipped here, they won't be a standout value, so they would not be particularly marketable.
+1 very well said.

 

[OneEyeJack]

One problem with stuff made in China is that China will make any quality you specify if you monitor and control the process for the whole production run. A big part of the problem is the purchase specification. If you specify just, you will get it.

 

[CivicFan]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
I found an interesting observation at my local Canadian Tire a couple of days ago. Motomaster, The CT house brand changed their oil filter suppliers from Fram to a Chinese brand last year. Shelves were full of the new Chinese supplied Motomaster filters. Well, a couple of days ago I see all of the China filters are gone and all of the Fram ones are back.


I noticed this as well. There were still some of the Chinese Motomasters available, but you could see that the Fram-built filters are returning to the shelves.

Obviously there must be a rather significant reason for this..... I'm curious now!


I can think of two:
1. Fram intended to raise their prices which would force Canadian Tire to increase its prices;
2. Canadian Tire wanted to increase its shelf fees and was twisting Fram's arms.

As a result of that tactic, Canadian Tire got what it wanted and Fram is back.

 

[mechanicx]

But what I think is happening is China producers claim they will deliver quality spec X at price Y, but in reality the product does not meet the quality spec and is junk. China will do anything and everything to be at an advantage to get the contracts. If you have to monitor and control every step of the production process to get the quality, how much cost is really saved? Probably nothing at the consumer end. Definitely not enough to make up even partially for what domestic jobs and revenues are lost.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Originally Posted By: mechanicx
If you have to monitor and control every step of the production process to get the quality, how much cost is really saved?


It's a viscous circle. If there is no or little QA then the manufacture most likely will fail to produce a quality product at some point. I can't see how US companies can just let a foreign manufacture loose and trust they will produce a product to spec without some over the shoulder monitoring to some degree.

 

[Ursae_Majoris]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan

The funny thing is that the junkiest Chinese products are not found in China but on the shelves of places like Dollar Tree or Walmart in this country.

I take it, you have never been to an open-air market in China?
If you want to see junky Chinese products, that's where you go.

How about a leather jacket that bleeds black dye inside and out when it barely gets wet and also shrinks a full size?

My JCPenny bought made-in-China leather jacket does not do that.

Here is how differences in quality in Chinese goods were explained to my wife by a Chinese gal working in factory in China. Western companies used to sell only products made in Chinese factories that they managed and did the QC. Labor cost were cheaper than in the West, but substantially higher than local wages. She used to make more money than both of her parents together (both doctors). As demand in the West grew, more and more products were made in Chinese owned and operated factories paying going local rates and having no QC. That's where you get lead paints in the toys and melamine in food.

 

[Hootbro]

Originally Posted By: Ursae_Majoris

I take it, you have never been to an open-air market in China?
If you want to see junky Chinese products, that's where you go.

How about a leather jacket that bleeds black dye inside and out when it barely gets wet and also shrinks a full size?

My JCPenny bought made-in-China leather jacket does not do that.

Here is how differences in quality in Chinese goods were explained to my wife by a Chinese gal working in factory in China. Western companies used to sell only products made in Chinese factories that they managed and did the QC. Labor cost were cheaper than in the West, but substantially higher than local wages. She used to make more money than both of her parents together (both doctors). As demand in the West grew, more and more products were made in Chinese owned and operated factories paying going local rates and having no QC. That's where you get lead paints in the toys and melamine in food.


This!

The Chinese can build to any quality standard that is asked of them. Most times it is not asked of them.

 

[mechanicx]

I don't know if it is that simple. China sort of is taking over the factories and doing whatever they can to cut costs for their own benefit. Like I said I wouldn't be surprised if they claim they are meeting the spec and taking short cuts and not meeting them. I'm not sure if a western company has as much control there as they would in the US. But to me it is kind of irrelevent that China could make higher quality products. The main thing is they do not and the products are often not a good value.

 

[webfors]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: Audioquest
Originally Posted By: Autobahn88
I found an interesting observation at my local Canadian Tire a couple of days ago. Motomaster, The CT house brand changed their oil filter suppliers from Fram to a Chinese brand last year. Shelves were full of the new Chinese supplied Motomaster filters. Well, a couple of days ago I see all of the China filters are gone and all of the Fram ones are back.


I noticed this as well. There were still some of the Chinese Motomasters available, but you could see that the Fram-built filters are returning to the shelves.

Obviously there must be a rather significant reason for this..... I'm curious now!


Went to CT this weekend, and the china filters are almost gone. All newly stocked Fram built filters. I know you shouldn't judge a book by it's cover, but those filters gave me a bad impression first time I saw them. That shiny rough metal for threads was enough to put me off. I too would like to know the reason!