Caravan and transmissions

[Nick1994]

I just can't see stepping down to an old Dodge van.

Working on cars can be fun, but when a lot of repairs could be needed, it takes a lot of time away from family and can be expensive etc.

If you can find an 11' or 12' for a good price, it might be cheaper to have the head replaced (if the slim chance it goes bad) than to buy a newer van.

If you'll also pull your camper or utility trailer with it, you'll definitely want the Pentastar for the power. Boy do those vans go!

Here, use my search link on Autotrader. There's a TON of 2011 and newer for cheap. Don't forget about the Chrysler Town & Country too.

Autotrader LINK

 

[Crispysea]

My wife’s 2012 GC just hit 140k and still works perfectly. The 3.6 doesn’t burn a drop of oil, and gets about 24 MPG on the highway. We bought it at 100k. I changed the OEM plugs, then I changed the ATF at 120k. It had no shifting problems, but the fluid was getting brown. I see dozens of them as taxis and Ubers around here, so they can take abuse.

 

[sloinker]

Fire, wheel, antibiotics, Stow & Go in order of important inventions.

 

[Koz1]

I had a 2000 3.0 one of the sensors went, it would not shift out of 2nd gear, two dealers told me I needed a new trans. I looked into the codes myself changed one sensor about 10 min job and it was working great again no other problems really. I should not have gotten rid of it. I change the trans fluid every 50k

 

[KrisZ]

Looks like the 62te replacement cost is about $4k from a dealer.

62te transmission replacement

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: dogememe
Get an Astro van?


Sorry, forgot to reply. Need more of a people mover, plus long out of manufacture. I'd like one but I think the Caravan is a better fit for me.

Originally Posted By: Billy_D
Here is a 2012 Grand Caravan for $8700 with 80k miles 3.6 with 6spd Transmission. Just don't expect the reliability of a Toyota. Good luck!


https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inventoryl...sting=210323976


Car Gurus, had not heard of them. Great, yet someplace else to look! LOL. CL, Autotrader, now CG. Thanks for the link, I tried looking at the actual dealers site and it doesn't come up, but that is a good solid lead.

But I don't understand your other comment. I thought all vehicles were good now?

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Looks like the 62te replacement cost is about $4k from a dealer.

62te transmission replacement


$4k, thanks. I realize that if I find a nice van with good records etc that I'm 99% unlikely to need to replace. And with my driving habits all the more likely. But still. It's a number to keep on hand.

Originally Posted By: Nick1994
I just can't see stepping down to an old Dodge van.

Working on cars can be fun, but when a lot of repairs could be needed, it takes a lot of time away from family and can be expensive etc.

If you can find an 11' or 12' for a good price, it might be cheaper to have the head replaced (if the slim chance it goes bad) than to buy a newer van.

If you'll also pull your camper or utility trailer with it, you'll definitely want the Pentastar for the power. Boy do those vans go!

Here, use my search link on Autotrader. There's a TON of 2011 and newer for cheap. Don't forget about the Chrysler Town & Country too.

Autotrader LINK


No, I think I'm giving up on the towing aspect. Oh I'll always have a utility trailer but I'll never hit the weights that should tax anything. I've realized that we as a family just don't have the time to go out camping. Summer is busy and too hot, fall is too busy. It's really only something that I might have time for, and it's pretty hard to justify anything fancy/large for a single person.

As such, I'll avoid the pricey Nivomats and do air bags if I ever have too much sag in the rear. I mean, if I get them that's great, but like rear a/c I won't mind avoiding.

Edit: Yes, car repairs can be a drag. That's why I am strongly N+1 on vehicles. Like this week. I ordered a pair of tires for the wife's car. We'll probably drop that off, it'll get tires over the day while she drives the truck. Zero impact to us. Same vein, I buy a minivan that needs work, I do that on the weekends. Or drop it off.

*

Thanks all.

 

[badtlc]

I'm not sure why anyone would avoid the 3.6L and the 6spd ATX. Those are great.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
I'm not sure why anyone would avoid the 3.6L and the 6spd ATX. Those are great.


Cost. Can I get something cheaper? I'm concerned about TCO. My target is usually under 10c/m for depreciation. I made an allowance for my truck (so as to justify it) and I regret that now.

Plus older tends to be simpler and I'm a Luddite at heart. Year and a half ago I bought my '99 Camry and I'm tickled pink that keys for it cost a buck ninety five. Last set of RT43's I bought for about $175. Talk about keeping my TCO in check on all fronts. New(er) makes me feel all warm and fuzzy--right until I look at the bill.

But I agree, all the reviews say the Caravan with 3.6/6AT is the bees knees.

 

[itguy08]

I'd skip the Dodge as at those ages you're looking at a worn out van. And budgeting for major repairs out of the gate is crazy, IMHO. Last thing I'd want to do is put the wife and kids in a vehicle that right out of the gate you know will be problematic.

In that budget if you can't go CUV maybe look at the Huyndai/Kia vans - I'd imagine they would be cheap and if you can get the powertrain warranty transferred would be great.

The Astro even out of production is pretty solid - solid drivetrain but very utilitarian.

You could possibly get into a used Transit Connect in passenger version too. Or the Nissan/Chevy equivalent.

Or look at a used Ford Flex - solid drivetrain (the 3.5 and 6f55 are in everything from Edges to Taurus for years) and is basically a not tall minivan. Usable 3rd seat and it folds flat into the floor. Can tow 5k lbs and AWD.

I'm no Honda person but the Element could fit the bill as well.

 

[Delta]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
You could possibly get into a used Transit Connect in passenger version too. Or the Nissan/Chevy equivalent.


Hah, those have worse transmission issues than the Caravans, especially the first gen (US model)! Severely under-powered empty, let alone loaded.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: Delta
Originally Posted By: itguy08
You could possibly get into a used Transit Connect in passenger version too. Or the Nissan/Chevy equivalent.


Hah, those have worse transmission issues than the Caravans, especially the first gen (US model)! Severely under-powered empty, let alone loaded.


Seem to be a lot of them around though. Even taking that out of the running there's still plenty of choice other than something that will need major work or be a money pit.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
I'd skip the Dodge as at those ages you're looking at a worn out van. And budgeting for major repairs out of the gate is crazy, IMHO. Last thing I'd want to do is put the wife and kids in a vehicle that right out of the gate you know will be problematic.

In that budget if you can't go CUV maybe look at the Huyndai/Kia vans - I'd imagine they would be cheap and if you can get the powertrain warranty transferred would be great.

The Astro even out of production is pretty solid - solid drivetrain but very utilitarian.

You could possibly get into a used Transit Connect in passenger version too. Or the Nissan/Chevy equivalent.

Or look at a used Ford Flex - solid drivetrain (the 3.5 and 6f55 are in everything from Edges to Taurus for years) and is basically a not tall minivan. Usable 3rd seat and it folds flat into the floor. Can tow 5k lbs and AWD.

I'm no Honda person but the Element could fit the bill as well.


Not sure how you can rule out older Caravan but rule in Astrovan--similar age, and Astro's use the somewhat problematic 4L60.

I also don't understand why I wouldn't budget for anticipated repairs, new or used. Know the costs going in, and plan around it. I mean, going in I know these vans will eat tires, so it'll be $500-700 or so every 30k. Understood. It is what it is. Just like the fact that the trans will likely go. Build those expectations into the TCO. Lastly, I'm not sure how often the wife will be driving this. If it's a clunker, never. If it's nice, then more often. She would be keeping her Camry after all. Our thinking is, if we buy an old(er) minivan and she finds that she really likes it, needs to use it a lot, then when her Camry is due for replacement we'll find a nice minivan.

I'll look into Flex (looks like an SUV) and the Kia, I keep forgetting about the Koreans for some reason. Probably because of all the praise heaped on the Pentastar.

 

[pandus13]

Originally Posted By: supton
...
I'll look into Flex (looks like an SUV) and the Kia, I keep forgetting about the Koreans for some reason. Probably because of all the praise heaped on the Pentastar.

If looking at Ford, also:
-Ford Taurus X
-Ford Connect Wagon (comes in 5 or 7 -passenger versions); get the turbo (power when loaded)

Mini-minivan:
-Mazda5; 2010-up; should be pretty cheap; if really loaded, you may get in the same mpg as regular minivan...

hybrid:
-Prius v (wagon);

Dodge/Chrysler: the 3.6 is a the more you loaded, the more it likes it....

If with the planned/new house you get a fixer upper, nothing beats a minivan!

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: supton
Not sure how you can rule out older Caravan but rule in Astrovan--similar age, and Astro's use the somewhat problematic 4L60.

The 4L60 has been in tons of stuff over the years so in a later version they should have all the bugs worked out. GM usually made a decent transmission.

Quote:
I also don't understand why I wouldn't budget for anticipated repairs, new or used. Know the costs going in, and plan around it. I mean, going in I know these vans will eat tires, so it'll be $500-700 or so every 30k. Understood. It is what it is.


There's a difference between budgeting for normal things like brakes/tires/other maintenance and then catastrophic drivetrain failure. I'd pass on any vehicle where "I need to put away $10/week for a transmission" is part of the equation. Yes, at some point it will wear out and need to be replaced but the hope is that it will be a long time away and at that point the vehicle will be worth less than the repair.

Quote:
I'll look into Flex (looks like an SUV) and the Kia, I keep forgetting about the Koreans for some reason. Probably because of all the praise heaped on the Pentastar.


I had a Kia for a loaner back in 2008 or so and it was decent. Peppy and utilitarian. Hyundai/Kia have been building decent stuff for a while now so it's worth the look.

There's really nothing special about the Pentastar. It's a 3.x V6 that makes about the same power as the the others, is about as refined as the others, and gets about the same FE as the others. It's good for a Mopar but par for the corse.

 

[KrisZ]

In the minivan segment, the pentastar equipped Caravans and Town & Countries are on par with the competition. Chrysler has its sins, but they do make a good minivan.

As far as pentastar engine, only recently with the adoption of DI has Honda and Toyota cought up with it with power and torque figures. Also, having an MPI engine in a minivan is a plus in my book, as they tend to see a lot of short trips, where DI suffers fuel dilution the most.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: itguy08
Originally Posted By: supton
Not sure how you can rule out older Caravan but rule in Astrovan--similar age, and Astro's use the somewhat problematic 4L60.

The 4L60 has been in tons of stuff over the years so in a later version they should have all the bugs worked out. GM usually made a decent transmission.


They do. But 4L60 is known for sun shell failure. Was it all of them? Was it nearly as many as the 41TE? Probably not. But it still has a rep for it.

Quote:
Quote:
I also don't understand why I wouldn't budget for anticipated repairs, new or used. Know the costs going in, and plan around it. I mean, going in I know these vans will eat tires, so it'll be $500-700 or so every 30k. Understood. It is what it is.


There's a difference between budgeting for normal things like brakes/tires/other maintenance and then catastrophic drivetrain failure. I'd pass on any vehicle where "I need to put away $10/week for a transmission" is part of the equation. Yes, at some point it will wear out and need to be replaced but the hope is that it will be a long time away and at that point the vehicle will be worth less than the repair.


Why would I get rid of a car just because repair cost exceeds value? I get the idea of not dumping repair after repair into a car. But let's just pretend for a moment: buy an otherwise well maintained vehicle for pennies on the dollar (under a grand let's say), put in a $2k transmission and get 100k out of it. Sounds rather cheap to me.

Unfortunately eljefino makes it sound like there are more expensive repairs than that (computer, harness)...

Quote:
Quote:
I'll look into Flex (looks like an SUV) and the Kia, I keep forgetting about the Koreans for some reason. Probably because of all the praise heaped on the Pentastar.


I had a Kia for a loaner back in 2008 or so and it was decent. Peppy and utilitarian. Hyundai/Kia have been building decent stuff for a while now so it's worth the look.

There's really nothing special about the Pentastar. It's a 3.x V6 that makes about the same power as the the others, is about as refined as the others, and gets about the same FE as the others. It's good for a Mopar but par for the corse.


As long as I can get a good one for under $10k I'm game. $10k should buy something good for 100k with few (if any) repairs. But for some reason I'm feeling like I have better odds with an AVP or SE (stow and go, no rear a/c) to do that metric.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
As far as pentastar engine, only recently with the adoption of DI has Honda and Toyota cought up with it with power and torque figures. Also, having an MPI engine in a minivan is a plus in my book, as they tend to see a lot of short trips, where DI suffers fuel dilution the most.


All from Wikipedia...

Pentastar - 230-305 hp, 210-268 lb-ft
Ford 3.5 NA (port)- 265-290 hp, 250-255 lb-ft
GM 3.6 (port) - 242-275 hp, 232-253 lb-ft
Nissan VQ (port) - 228-300 hp, 246-274 lb-ft
Toyota 2GR-FE (port) - 268-396 hp, 248-260 lb-ft

So it's about where everyone else is. Great for a Mopar but not the revolutionary engine the Mopar fanatics make it out to be.

 

[jeepman3071]

I think you would have better luck finding a well maintained used Caravan for a decent price than a well maintained Odyssey or Sienna.

Many owners of Hondas and Toyotas unfortunately view them as "maintenance free" so they just drive them until they start having issues then sell them. The ones who maintain them know they are sought after and demand a premium price.

Different vehicle class, but my sister was looking at small sedans about a year ago. The Civics and Corollas she looked at were beat. Alignment was off, tires chewed up, etc. The prices were firm because the dealers knew they would sell based on reputation, not necessarily condition. Some of them we test drove only about a mile before turning back because there was so much wrong. She ended up buying a cream puff 2013 Jetta with lower miles for the same price and it has been flawless.

 

[itguy08]

Originally Posted By: supton
Why would I get rid of a car just because repair cost exceeds value? I get the idea of not dumping repair after repair into a car. But let's just pretend for a moment: buy an otherwise well maintained vehicle for pennies on the dollar (under a grand let's say), put in a $2k transmission and get 100k out of it. Sounds rather cheap to me.


Cause the rest of the mechanicals have that old mileage/age/whatever. You're making a big assumption that a rebuild transmission would go another 100k. So you now spent $3k on, say an 18 year old vehicle with, what, 150k on it? The engine is 150k and may not have had the best maintenance. The rest of the vehicle is 150k so that could mean lots of suspension parts or lots of rust depending on where you are. All $$$ on a car that's old enough to vote.

Would be much better to take that $3k as a downpayment on something a little newer or even buy multiple under $1k cars and drive them until the first big repair and then dump them. That's my thinking - I'd rather not dump thousands into an old car to keep it limping along.

 

[jeepman3071]

Originally Posted By: itguy08

Would be much better to take that $3k as a downpayment on something a little newer or even buy multiple under $1k cars and drive them until the first big repair and then dump them. That's my thinking - I'd rather not dump thousands into an old car to keep it limping along.


Depends on the condition of the vehicle and how much it is to replace. $3k transmission on a vehicle in perfect shape may be worth it if replacing the vehicle is going to be many times that.