Trying Renewable Lubricants ....

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Originally Posted By: Grambo
i go to school for automotive engineering and they are doing research on BIO-OILS there are inherent problems with natural fatty oils.


Not that I want to start bickering on the Internet (which, BTW, is the most awesome thing ever), but that's a strange comment to make without backing it up.
 
Sounds like TD sold his soul to RLI. He is recommending RLI to everyone.
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Originally Posted By: deven
Sounds like TD sold his soul to RLI. He is recommending RLI to everyone.
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Wrong. And wrong.

Dyson does like the RLI products. For good reason.

But RLI doesn't pay him as a spokesman for their products. And he freely recommends other motor oils he believes in.
 
Originally Posted By: CougarRed
Originally Posted By: deven
Sounds like TD sold his soul to RLI. He is recommending RLI to everyone.
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Wrong. And wrong.

Dyson does like the RLI products. For good reason.

But RLI doesn't pay him as a spokesman for their products. And he freely recommends other motor oils he believes in.

Exactly.

deven, suffice it to say that if you were actually using his services, you wouldn't have said that.
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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
But it does shear, so it wouldn't be that much thicker than necessary.

And you know this thanks to what body of statistically valid knowledge?

Do I detect a hint of defensiveness?
As I mentioned before I don't consider shear necessarily a problem.
There are a few UOA on this site, A.E. HAAS has posted a few, and I don't recall seeing one yet that hasn't sheared close to 10% in less than 2,500 miles.
But if you know of even one with no shear I'd be happy to see it.

The following is Dr. Haas' latest UOA. Despite the 10% viscosity loss the oil retained it's 180 VI:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2115971&page=1
 
Originally Posted By: deven
Sounds like TD sold his soul to RLI. He is recommending RLI to everyone.
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Just to echo the other two comments, this is incorrect. Terry recommends things that work, and RLI is among them. I'm presently running Quaker State in one car and Mobil 1 in another, both on account of his input.

jeff
 
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Originally Posted By: Grambo
i go to school for automotive engineering and they are doing research on BIO-OILS there are inherent problems with natural fatty oils.

This seems like a very general statement. What problems are you referring to? Do you think these apply to RLI oils?
 
The statement you made that I quoted was worded in terms of certainty. Thus, I question whether you've seen enough data to know whether this particular grade will shear in this particular app.

AEHaas's cars are very high-horsepower and used for short trips in which he often does things like light up the rear tires and cruise around at 8k RPM in first gear just to hear the engine. It's hard to imagine how they would be a basis on which to make assertions about shear stability in a 2004 Wrangler. If you want to use data from his cars, the thing to do would be to find UOAs from other oils of the same grade and see if they sheared more or less. That might be somewhat informative.

Besides, where are you getting "10% viscosity loss" from? The spec sheet I'm looking at indicates a KV100 of 8.6 cSt, which would make the viscosity loss more like 7%. But either way, I can't imagine either number being something to be worried about; in fact, considering the application and your reason for arguing that RLI tends not to be shear-stable (i.e. use of VIIs), it might be pretty impressive. Or, it might simply fall within the range of manufacturing error.

Here are some everyday cars using RLI 0w-20:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1120860
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=83089&Number=1075398
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1025079

Even this is not much of a trend, and we still don't have any Jeeps, but these UOAs together suggest that viscosity seems to track quite neatly with fuel dilution, as it tends to do with all oils. No big surprise. The KV100 from UOAs with zero (or near-zero) fuel dilution is 8 or 8.1.

AEHaas's UOA bucks the trend... in the wrong direction. Despite fuel dilution, it shows a KV100 of 8 cSt, which corresponds with the zero-fuel-dilution numbers from those other UOAs.

The appropriate conclusion to come to here is "not enough data to make a call." Which is my point.


Now, if what you meant to say was, "But it often shears, so it might not be that much thicker than necessary," that's another story. It's technically true of almost all oils, so you would still have to demonstrate that it was more true of RLI than of others; however, I've seen you make the latter argument before and I find it plausible in theory (if not also backed by evidence), so I would not pick that nit.
 
Thanks for posting the additional UOA.
Every UOA shows shear of at least 7%, some as high as 13% which isn't really bad and I would agree it likely falls in the range of average for a VII containing oil.

The real point of my comment on the shear was to justify (or at least not discourage) Fred from trying what is really a 30wt oil in a 20wt application.

If Fred is interested in trying an ester based oil he might want to consider instead RL's 0W-20 which is a true 20wt oil with it's
HTHS vis' of 2.7cP. Again it is still heavier than spec' and since it contains no VII's is impervious to shear.
 
Originally Posted By: Bruce T
Fred, what oil viscosity is specified for your Wrangler?


It's 5w30, but I plan on using the 0w30. I've already switched our Cherokee from 10w30 to 0w30, with good results especially in colder weather.

I noticed the posts about this oil shearing badly....however I've also seen some posts about an Audi engine having trouble with shearing - with oils other than RLI, which was fine. So I guess it can go both ways and if they're constantly improving then maybe that issue is going away?
 
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Fred I thought Chrysler had switched to 5W-20 on the new Jeeps?
Anyway, yes the RLI 0W-30 does shear a lot but I wouldn't worry about it as I believe it starts as a heavy 30wt in the first place.
 
I'm looking into RLI also, based on research about DI engines and fuel dilution issues in general. Although my 2010 Equinox seems to do well on Schaeffers 9k, I am interested in keeping the valve train as clean as possible, one thing that RLI seems to be very good at from posts here and other sites. I will make that decision after the 20k UOA- should be well broken in by then. The 0w30 looks good for my use.
 
Originally Posted By: fredjacksonsan
It's 5w30, but I plan on using the 0w30. I've already switched our Cherokee from 10w30 to 0w30, with good results especially in colder weather.

I noticed the posts about this oil shearing badly....however I've also seen some posts about an Audi engine having trouble with shearing - with oils other than RLI, which was fine. So I guess it can go both ways and if they're constantly improving then maybe that issue is going away?

When you talk about an Audi engine, I assume you're talking about an RS4, owned by someone who goes by RI_RS4 on the forums. Correct me if I'm wrong. But if so, the oil in that case was the 5w-40 HD, which used the toughest VIIs available and thus was quite shear-stable.

Until recently, the 0w-30 used different VIIs that were not as tough. However, the formulation has recently been updated and now uses the same VIIs as the 5w-40 HD (among other things), so it should be a lot more shear-stable now.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

Until recently, the 0w-30 used different VIIs that were not as tough. However, the formulation has recently been updated and now uses the same VIIs as the 5w-40 HD (among other things), so it should be a lot more shear-stable now.


I used RLI 0W30 in the past but I stopped when I was not able to obtain the same, more robust 0W30 formulation that AEHaas has access to.

d00 how do you know that all the 0W30 has been reformulated and is available to all? I dont think I see any change on their website and no change in the posted PDS.
 
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
d00 how do you know that all the 0W30 has been reformulated and is available to all? I dont think I see any change on their website and no change in the posted PDS.

Last time I spoke with RLI, the new formulation was what was being sold; in other words, if you buy 0w-30 from them now, you'll get the new stuff.

AFAIK, the changes aren't things that would show up on the PDS.
 
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
d00 how do you know that all the 0W30 has been reformulated and is available to all? I dont think I see any change on their website and no change in the posted PDS.

Last time I spoke with RLI, the new formulation was what was being sold; in other words, if you buy 0w-30 from them now, you'll get the new stuff.


Is this a relatively new development? I ask this because when I spoke to RLI about this this past August I did not get the impression that the AEHaas formula was available to all.
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Originally Posted By: dparm
What's the HTHS on the 0w30?


All we know from the PDS is that it is > 2.9. But looking at its 40C and 100C viscosity, coupled with its HTHS being in the 3s leads one to conclude that it isnt a light 30 weight.
 
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge
Originally Posted By: d00df00d

Until recently, the 0w-30 used different VIIs that were not as tough. However, the formulation has recently been updated and now uses the same VIIs as the 5w-40 HD (among other things), so it should be a lot more shear-stable now.


I used RLI 0W30 in the past but I stopped when I was not able to obtain the same, more robust 0W30 formulation that AEHaas has access to.

d00 how do you know that all the 0W30 has been reformulated and is available to all? I dont think I see any change on their website and no change in the posted PDS.

On the Cdn distributors website their is a picture of good old Dr. Haas and his toys and a picture of a gallon of RLI 0W-30 labeled as the "Dr.Haas Enzo formula", so I guess it is indeed available to all. See below:

http://www.dmsbiobased.ca/PDF's/Testimonials/RLI%20Performance%20Pictures%202.pdf

P.S. I wonder if Ali gets is RLI for free now?
 
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: 21Rouge

I used RLI 0W30 in the past but I stopped when I was not able to obtain the same, more robust 0W30 formulation that AEHaas has access to.

d00 how do you know that all the 0W30 has been reformulated and is available to all? I dont think I see any change on their website and no change in the posted PDS.


On the Cdn distributors website their is a picture of good old Dr. Haas and his toys and a picture of a gallon of RLI 0W-30 labeled as the "Dr.Haas Enzo formula", so I guess it is indeed available to all. See below:

http://www.dmsbiobased.ca/PDF's/Testimonials/RLI%20Performance%20Pictures%202.pdf


All I can tell you is what I was told last August by RLI and at that time it was my strong impression that the Haas formula was not available for all. I guess a further direct inquiry to RLI is needed for confirmation.
 
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