Truth or Myth: Modern Engines STILL Require Break-in

[Kira]

Let's see if I can communicate this clearly:

Earlier, a poster mentioned SBC engines dying sooner with just a bypass system rather than a full flow (normal) system.
Don't bypass systems characteristically filter only 5% - 10% of pumped oil?
Ergo, 90% - 95% of the oil isn't filtered in the engines which the poster said wore out sooner.
This could be all the 'data' we got!

Isn't circulating unfiltered oil comparable to leaving it in longer?

NOTE of IRONY: On a board where cleansing compounds and conflicting chemistry is discussed in depth, contributors to this thread are talking about "sparklies" in the oil. From the micro to the macro.

It could be time to rely on the "dirty is better than clean" model.
Said model has more merit than "do what makes you sleep better at night" snottiness.

 

[KrisZ]

The early oil change is still recommended by the motorcycle manufacturers, even Honda.

So I’m supposed believe Honda uses a special, ultra mysterious break in oil in their run of the mill grocery getters that needs to stay in the engine for a normal OCI, but their high strung, high output superbike engines don’t get this elixir and the oil has to be dumped at 500 miles instead?

Makes total sense

 

[kschachn]

Try this experiment: Post up a UOA with all that break in metal, and say the engine was well maintained with 50K miles on it. Then sit back and watch the comments.

IMO the sooner the break in metal comes out the better. Oh yea I read about the millions of cars on the road that had their first oil change at 10K miles, good for them. A lot of our resident experts seem to agree with dumping the FF early, and breaking in an engine, I'm in their camp. Merry Christmas!!!!

It’s not the metal that shows up in a spectrographic analysis that’s harmful.

 

[demarpaint]

It’s not the metal that shows up in a spectrographic analysis that’s harmful.

OK. I still want the wear metals out sooner rather than later in an engine that is breaking in, and many of our resident experts have agreed over the years.

 

[KrisZ]

OK. I still want the wear metals out sooner rather than later in an engine that is breaking in, and many of our resident experts have agreed over the years.

Same here and I’m not sure why it’s even debated on a forum where extra few PPM of metals in an UOA is enough to condemn an oil as inferior over another one.

 

[fdcg27]

I used to do a short first drain on a new car just as I used to do 3K oil and filter changes.
Based upon what I've learned from the experiences of others here, I no longer do either.
I have come to believe that vehicles continue to improve with use for many tens of thousands of miles.
I base this upon the logs I've maintained for everything we've ever owned.
Fuel economy is an easy measure of performance if you log every tank, and I see a trend of continued improvement in everything we've had, from our long departed '86 Civic Wagon to our current HAH out to 100K and beyond.

 

[TiGeo]

OK. I still want the wear metals out sooner rather than later in an engine that is breaking in, and many of our resident experts have agreed over the years.

Like all the other things the resident experts ask others here for...I'll ask the same. Data showing it makes any difference in longevity w/r early vs. normal first oil change.

 

[demarpaint]

Like all the other things the resident experts ask others here for...I'll ask the same. Data showing it makes any difference in longevity w/r early vs. normal first oil change.

View attachment 194776

While we're at it lets ask the resident experts for data about the addition of Ceratec helping a fully formulated oil. Regarding changing oil early, I'll circle back to what I learned early on in school auto shop, and the experts here that learned the same way I did. Merry Christmas.

 

[TiGeo]

While we're at it lets ask the resident experts for data about the addition of Ceratec helping a fully formulated oil. Regarding changing oil early, I'll circle back to what I learned early on in school auto shop, and the experts here that learned the same way I did. Merry Christmas.

I don't recall ever hanging my hat on any data w/r to Ceratec nor telling anyone to use it. There is a TUV testing sheet that has been posted multiple times testing Ceratec and showing a reduction in friction, maybe you should pull that up. Still waiting on anyone to show me on a modern vehicle, that an early change has any bearing on longevity of your engine - it certainly hasn't on any vehicle I've owned long term as I don't do them. Nobody has nor does anyone know what mileage is the magic...100? 567? What is it? Ask you shop teacher, he'll probably know.

 

[demarpaint]

I don't recall ever hanging my hat on any data w/r to Ceratec nor telling anyone to use it. There is a TUV testing sheet that has been posted multiple times testing Ceratec and showing a reduction in friction, maybe you should pull that up. Still waiting on anyone to show me on a modern vehicle, that an early change has any bearing on longevity of your engine - it certainly hasn't on any vehicle I've owned long term as I don't do them. Nobody has nor does anyone know what mileage is the magic...100? 567? What is it? Ask you shop teacher, he'll probably know.

No but you sure dug in when questioned or when someone commented about it collecting in the sump. So I figured while you were on the topic of data I'd ask since those products are in your sig line. If you really need the data search the archives for the "resident experts" who drop the FF early, you can ask them for data. I've seen plenty of posts where you agreed with them, maybe they'll enlighten you. They seem to be doing the same thing I did, and know a whole lot more than me. Maybe they can point you in the right direction. I'm not going to waste my time, it's Christmas and I don't feel like rolling in the mud with you today.

 

[TiGeo]

No but you sure dug in when questioned or when someone commented about it collecting in the sump. So I figured while you were on the topic of data I'd ask since those products are in your sig line. If you really need the data search the archives for the "resident experts" who drop the FF early, you can ask them for data. I've seen plenty of posts where you agreed with them, maybe they'll enlighten you. They seem to be doing the same thing I did, and know a whole lot more than me. Maybe they can point you in the right direction. I'm not going to waste my time, it's Christmas and I don't feel like rolling in the mud with you today.

Because it was in an air compressor, completely irrelevent to anyone with it in it's intended use, your engine. I have them in my sig line b/c that's it's purpose, to show what I use. Strawman level 11 unlocked.

You're not going to wate your time b/c you nor anyone else here expert or not has the data on those magic early changes doing a thing. If you just said "I like to change my oil early b/c it makes me feel better", just like I have said mutlipe times w/r to Ceratec, I'd have some Christmas day props for you. It's ok to do that you know...not have data but also just say "I do it b/c I like too".

 

[demarpaint]

Because it was in an air compressor, completely irrelevent to anyone with it in it's intended use, your engine. I have them in my sig line b/c that's it's purpose, to show what I use. Strawman level 11 unlocked.

You're not going to wate your time b/c you nor anyone else here expert or not has the data on those magic early changes doing a thing. If you just said "I like to change my oil early b/c it makes me feel better", just like I have said mutlipe times w/r to Ceratec, I'd have some Christmas day props for you. It's ok to do that you know...not have data but also just say "I do it b/c I like too".

No it was an engine and pictures were posted, there was a compressor too. Enjoy the day, like I said I don't want to roll in the mud with you. The thread will get locked, guaranteed.

 

[KrisZ]

You don’t need to have data right in front of you to know that having metal particles of various sizes floating around in the oil is not optimal.

But the data must be out there or various professional engine builders, performance motorcycles, even aircraft engines would not call for early break in oil changes.

Here is one from Shell

You should be aware that the engine will produce wear metal particles during the break-in process and the oil and filter should be changed more frequently to remove these particles so that they don't act as a grinding paste and cause additional, unwanted wear.

Engine Break In | Aircraft Engine Break In Procedure | Shell Global

Take a look at this article for advice on breaking in an aircraft engine, the type of oils to use and why this is so important to the smooth running of an aircraft.

www.shell.com

 

[demarpaint]

You don’t need to have data right in front of you to know that having metal particles of various sizes floating around in the oil is not optimal.

But the data must be out there or various professional engine builders, performance motorcycles, even aircraft engines call for early break in oil changes.

Here is one from Shell

Engine Break In | Aircraft Engine Break In Procedure | Shell Global

Take a look at this article for advice on breaking in an aircraft engine, the type of oils to use and why this is so important to the smooth running of an aircraft.

www.shell.com

Sometimes all you need is a little common sense. Merry Christmas!

 

[TiGeo]

No it was an engine and pictures were posted, there was a compressor too. Enjoy the day, like I said I don't want to roll in the mud with you. The thread will get locked, guaranteed.

But yet here you are....rolling away.

 

[demarpaint]

But yet here you are....rolling away.

IIRC my last reply was to @KrisZ .

 

[TiGeo]

You don’t need to have data right in front of you to know that having metal particles of various sizes floating around in the oil is not optimal.

But the data must be out there or various professional engine builders, performance motorcycles, even aircraft engines would not call for early break in oil changes.

Here is one from Shell

Engine Break In | Aircraft Engine Break In Procedure | Shell Global

Take a look at this article for advice on breaking in an aircraft engine, the type of oils to use and why this is so important to the smooth running of an aircraft.

www.shell.com

I still am waiting for the reason my engine at 100K/5 years looks new inside (from the parts I've seen), has zero oil consumption, and great compression over all 4 cylinders when I did my first oil change at 7K miles after buying new. Must be a stroke of luck and all that lack of common sense with all that metal in there. Almost as if the oil filter does zero.

 

[TiGeo]

No it was an engine and pictures were posted, there was a compressor too. Enjoy the day, like I said I don't want to roll in the mud with you. The thread will get locked, guaranteed.

MoS2 in the engine. Ceratec in the air compressor. An engine that sat for a long period and was briefly started to move it. Yet the rest of the interwebz on this issue....nothing....single data points do not make a trend.....

 

[KrisZ]

I still am waiting for the reason my engine at 100K/5 years looks new inside (from the parts I've seen), has zero oil consumption, and great compression over all 4 cylinders when I did my first oil change at 7K miles after buying new. Must be a stroke of luck and all that lack of common sense with all that metal in there. Almost as if the oil filter does zero.

The world doesn’t revolve around you. You asked for data, I gave you one, but now you start “what about me?” line of arguing.

 

[demarpaint]

MoS2 in the engine. Ceratec in the air compressor. An engine that sat for a long period and was briefly started to move it. Yet the rest of the interwebz on this issue....nothing....single data points do not make a trend.....

Correct, only I know the person who posted those pictures, the history of the engine, and how it was used. Regarding break-in metals sometimes you need to apply some common sense when data is sparse or lacking, and rely on the wisdom and knowledge of people that know more than you do.