Truth or Myth: Modern Engines STILL Require Break-in
- Thread starter buster
- Start date
Great video. In reference to the manufacturer's 10,000 mile first oil change and him changing the oil early. "It's not because I'm smarter than Toyota, it's because we have different objectives". That's a great way to put it. The manufacturer wants to sell cars and make ownership easy. A savvy owner wants to extend the engine's lifespan.
I always do an early oil change. As the oil change is the only way to remove certain circulating contaminates.
The one thing I know from hundreds of dyno runs, break in is real, but babying an engine after the initial set of leak-check dyno runs is not necessary. The piston rings seat quickly during full power runs. Not once did we see engine damage due to dyno runs. Even on bone stock turbocharged, emissions compliant engines.
I always do an early oil change. As the oil change is the only way to remove certain circulating contaminates.
The one thing I know from hundreds of dyno runs, break in is real, but babying an engine after the initial set of leak-check dyno runs is not necessary. The piston rings seat quickly during full power runs. Not once did we see engine damage due to dyno runs. Even on bone stock turbocharged, emissions compliant engines.
To me the video is not very interesting.
Ok, there is more wear particles. Everyone knows this.
What is the problem if there is more wear particles for the first 10,000 miles?
Is the wear difference between changing early and after 10,000 miles even measurable? Will it actually affect the lifespan of the engine?
Ok, there is more wear particles. Everyone knows this.
What is the problem if there is more wear particles for the first 10,000 miles?
Is the wear difference between changing early and after 10,000 miles even measurable? Will it actually affect the lifespan of the engine?
I agree with what he said. I want excessive wear particles out of the engine sooner than later.
That's the question I have. However with that said I'd rather have the break-in metals out early.
Think of long OCI's where the oil is still in good shape, but wear rates are now elevated - example - Fe 95ppm with 15k on the oil. That falls within acceptable limits.
Most modern engines don't seem to produce excessive metals even on the first OCI. And most don't have nearly the amount of metals that some long drain OCI's produce where the oil is still in good shape. So is that bad too?
I'd rather drain relatively early (1k-3k miles) but I wouldn't be overly concerned about it personally.
I watched this last night and my two cents.
#1 What are his objectives and how does he quantify that the early oil change matters? He's a data guy so where's the data?
#2 His UOA's don't have a particle count. We know that wear particles come in different sizes, so how does he know that the wear particles in the UOA are contributing to additional wear in the engine? This IMO is the big issue because he's inferring that the wear is abrasive.
#1 What are his objectives and how does he quantify that the early oil change matters? He's a data guy so where's the data?
#2 His UOA's don't have a particle count. We know that wear particles come in different sizes, so how does he know that the wear particles in the UOA are contributing to additional wear in the engine? This IMO is the big issue because he's inferring that the wear is abrasive.
A little background on me. I'm a field service engineer for a large HVAC company. I look at oil analysis data quite a bit on large Centrifugal and screw chillers. We don't worry about changing oil early on chillers, even though I think it can relate to cars. The oil filter will catch any excess assembly/machining particles.
I think of all the cars on the road that people buy. How many are changing the oil early, outside of BITOG? 5%? I think thats a generous estimate. I believe strongly that the oil filter is more than capable for even an initial factory perscribed OCI. I'm not sure there is any way to prove myself right, but I don't think there is a way to prove me wrong either (well, we could if we got Elon Musk onboard to buy us two identical cars and start testing.........anyone volunteer to end him an email?)
In fairness, I have always changed oil early on a new car. However, just got my wife a new 2024 Mazda CX-5 with the Skyactive engine. I have no issues with changing the oil for the first time at 5K. I did an early change on her Santa Fe (2012 2.4 model) and cut open the filter. Nothing really to talk about. So, in reality, it really isn't an issue.
My .03 (inflation increase)
I think of all the cars on the road that people buy. How many are changing the oil early, outside of BITOG? 5%? I think thats a generous estimate. I believe strongly that the oil filter is more than capable for even an initial factory perscribed OCI. I'm not sure there is any way to prove myself right, but I don't think there is a way to prove me wrong either (well, we could if we got Elon Musk onboard to buy us two identical cars and start testing.........anyone volunteer to end him an email?)
In fairness, I have always changed oil early on a new car. However, just got my wife a new 2024 Mazda CX-5 with the Skyactive engine. I have no issues with changing the oil for the first time at 5K. I did an early change on her Santa Fe (2012 2.4 model) and cut open the filter. Nothing really to talk about. So, in reality, it really isn't an issue.
My .03 (inflation increase)
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All new mechanical assemblies, be it an engine or a handgun, will have a break-in period where newly machined parts become acquainted and rub the high spots off of each other.
I had to bail after the second round of, "Heck, I don't know.....".
When will these people realize that they are failing miserably at creating TV shows and imitating public speakers?
Gimme a 2 minute video with the point you want to make.
Flame suit on.
When will these people realize that they are failing miserably at creating TV shows and imitating public speakers?
Gimme a 2 minute video with the point you want to make.
Flame suit on.
I look at it this way. The initial fill on a new vehicle has certain objectives and the amount of time the vehicle remains in storage before sale can vary wildly. A few factors influence my decision to change within the first 2k miles.
Break in is done. The oil is replaced with something suited for my regular use.
I buy oil and filters on sale so the cost is minimal. engines are expensive, oil is cheap (relatively)
My plan is long term, the vehicle manufacturer just needs it to last past the warranty.
Nothing more satisfying for an oil geek than an uneventful oil change.
Break in is done. The oil is replaced with something suited for my regular use.
I buy oil and filters on sale so the cost is minimal. engines are expensive, oil is cheap (relatively)
My plan is long term, the vehicle manufacturer just needs it to last past the warranty.
Nothing more satisfying for an oil geek than an uneventful oil change.
I would rather have an unpolished real person explain something than some polished Hollywood type that annunciates perfectly but doesnt know anything about the subject. The beauty of YT is you can watch anything you want PLUS you can block Scotty Kilmer
Yes, "wear particles" that show up on a spectrographic analysis are not the ones that are concerning for wear. That doesn't mean there aren't any which haven't been caught by the filter, but a UOA isn't the tool to show that.
We see the industry professionals telling the truth.
Except the oil pump pumps unfiltered oil other than what the pick up screen would stop. I don't think most people put enough miles or keep their vehicles long enough to see the benefits of the extra maintenanence. There are the entertainig I bought this used car and I found out the engine is sludged up or the infamous I bought this car and it drinks oil posts. I do an early oil change then go to my once a year oil changes whether needed or not and with a new vehicle I drive it easy untill at operating temps then drive the engine how ever I feel like it. The only problem I ever had on a new engine in when GM left a bushing out on the roller cam equipped engine. Even Amsoil didn't protect enough.
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dnewton3
Staff member
I'm not convinced that "break in" particulate is either damaging or not damaging. It's all theory either way. There's no study specific to this topic using good DOE protocol to say one way or another.
I do early oil changes for break in. But that's because I want to start UOAs early, and so I do a few early OCIs to "flush" the system clean, sooner. If I do three OCIs in 5k miles, I can then hope to get a fairly "normal" wear trend understanding at 10k miles. But if I do three OEM OCIs at 10k miles each, then I have to wait until 30k miles to even start my fourth OCI for the UOA (to be taken at 40k miles).
A few early flushes may or may not assure longer engine life, but they certainly does allow one to get the break-in metals out earlier so UOAs won't be skewed early on.
NOTE:
my 2023 Lexus ES350 had a lot of particulate visible in the filter upon its first oil/filter change at 1k miles.
my 2023 Mazda MX-5 had no particulate in the filter visible at all; spotless pleats after the first 1k miles.
Does that indicate that either will have a long life, or a short one? I doubt it.
I do early oil changes for break in. But that's because I want to start UOAs early, and so I do a few early OCIs to "flush" the system clean, sooner. If I do three OCIs in 5k miles, I can then hope to get a fairly "normal" wear trend understanding at 10k miles. But if I do three OEM OCIs at 10k miles each, then I have to wait until 30k miles to even start my fourth OCI for the UOA (to be taken at 40k miles).
A few early flushes may or may not assure longer engine life, but they certainly does allow one to get the break-in metals out earlier so UOAs won't be skewed early on.
NOTE:
my 2023 Lexus ES350 had a lot of particulate visible in the filter upon its first oil/filter change at 1k miles.
my 2023 Mazda MX-5 had no particulate in the filter visible at all; spotless pleats after the first 1k miles.
Does that indicate that either will have a long life, or a short one? I doubt it.
That's where I'm at.
Break in is a real thing. After 4,500 miles my new car engine took a flying leap in power. I can easily tell by the long very steep hill I have to climb coming home. I have picked up a 6mph increase in performance up the hill. What is that a result of? Probably tight engine friction. As metal wear friction is reduced It winds up in the oil as metal particles. Change it out.
I find the subject video something from another persons perspective that gives us more to contemplate. What I also found interesting was the reason why the car didn't come from the factory with break-in oil. Buying vs Leasing could be a good reason that's the case.
Sudden change? sure it's not the ECU "unlocking" after what it thinks was an appropriate break-in time?
Still break in time.
