The Disadvantages to using a larger oil filter?
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AFAIK, VW/Audi never admitted to anything and the filter PN changed while it grew bigger. More media to catch the sludge. Larger oil capacity to make up for the small sump should hopefully reduce oil temperatures. And, if the filter is in the line of airflow, the larger surface area can also cool your oil.... Multiple benefits add up and the engine hopefully doesn't self destruct.
Also, in some of my old Fords, the big working HD trucks took the 2x-sized filter, the commoner trucks took the regular filter, and some with suspension or 4wd clearance issues took the 1/2-sized filter.
Concerning racing, why even use a stock tin-can filter? I would think that they would want to use a CM/Canton, Trasko, Trufilter, Scotts, GoPurePower, or other thicker walled aluminum housing with replaceable filter element. I'd also want to inspect the media easily with a racing engine so a cartridge design would be a must too.
Weren't some Honda filters sourced from the makers of Fram? Enough said!!
Here is a thought for you. We're going to overpay some engineers to build an extremely high RPM, high HP, race engine and still use a stock oil filter. I bet their fluctuations are caused by the bypass opening and closing. That would be an interesting harmonic to log. Add that harmonic to the oil pump's slip harmonic. Oil pump slip varying with load(bypass opening and closing) and you have some serious under-engineering. And, wonder how the media moves around at the high-rpm flow rates. Ripple ripple ripple effect! I'm surprised the engine didn't shake itself to death.
And Honda's engineering's genius fix, a hose clamp around the housing. Are you kidding me? Oh wait, same guys that came up with the transmission oil-jet mod.
Also, in some of my old Fords, the big working HD trucks took the 2x-sized filter, the commoner trucks took the regular filter, and some with suspension or 4wd clearance issues took the 1/2-sized filter.
Concerning racing, why even use a stock tin-can filter? I would think that they would want to use a CM/Canton, Trasko, Trufilter, Scotts, GoPurePower, or other thicker walled aluminum housing with replaceable filter element. I'd also want to inspect the media easily with a racing engine so a cartridge design would be a must too.
Weren't some Honda filters sourced from the makers of Fram? Enough said!!
Here is a thought for you. We're going to overpay some engineers to build an extremely high RPM, high HP, race engine and still use a stock oil filter. I bet their fluctuations are caused by the bypass opening and closing. That would be an interesting harmonic to log. Add that harmonic to the oil pump's slip harmonic. Oil pump slip varying with load(bypass opening and closing) and you have some serious under-engineering. And, wonder how the media moves around at the high-rpm flow rates. Ripple ripple ripple effect! I'm surprised the engine didn't shake itself to death.
And Honda's engineering's genius fix, a hose clamp around the housing. Are you kidding me? Oh wait, same guys that came up with the transmission oil-jet mod.
Originally Posted By: FZ1
I run only the oem size filters. I'm not a fluid flow engineer,so I'm not second guessing what the real engineers spec'd.
From some of the info I've seen from the manufactures, I'm not really sure if "real engineers" are making these size application decisions.
I run only the oem size filters. I'm not a fluid flow engineer,so I'm not second guessing what the real engineers spec'd.
From some of the info I've seen from the manufactures, I'm not really sure if "real engineers" are making these size application decisions.
I like oversized oil filters cause I do 10K - 15K miles (with multiple OCI's). I doubt the bigger filter would cause any problems as long as you have the proper oil level.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
From some of the info I've seen from the manufactures, I'm not really sure if "real engineers" are making these size application decisions.
Could be just space available. Although alomost nobody is running 20W-20 oil in the winter anymore, and filter media is better, they can use smaller filters than the old days.
(Still it reminds me of the packaging department decisions to put circulation pumps on the suction side of hot water heating boilers because it fits in the crate better. It has caused air locking problems and noise in upper floor radiators for decades.)
From some of the info I've seen from the manufactures, I'm not really sure if "real engineers" are making these size application decisions.
Could be just space available. Although alomost nobody is running 20W-20 oil in the winter anymore, and filter media is better, they can use smaller filters than the old days.
(Still it reminds me of the packaging department decisions to put circulation pumps on the suction side of hot water heating boilers because it fits in the crate better. It has caused air locking problems and noise in upper floor radiators for decades.)
Just use the correctly spec'd filter. If anyone should be worried about filter size it should be me with the tiny spec'd filter for my subaru. But I've opened enough of them to know they are an excellent filter with plenty of media. No need to increase the size and go out of spec.
GM van design engineer told me way back in 2000 that the reason the filter is so small on the 4.8/5.3/6.0 v8 family is that larger was not needed. He also said it was helping in the startup phase of operation as oil pressure came up quicker.
It's not always a packaging decision, but obviously some mfgr's have to choose a size that will fit.
In a gazillion miles of hard/long term fleet use on GM motors I have never been able to find any concrete benefit to the size of the filter.
It's not always a packaging decision, but obviously some mfgr's have to choose a size that will fit.
In a gazillion miles of hard/long term fleet use on GM motors I have never been able to find any concrete benefit to the size of the filter.
Just adding another opinion:
I always use (and recommend to others) OEM filters during the warranty. After that, it's all on me.
Also, sometimes the OEM filter IS the best choice...i.e. the Motorcraft FL820S on a Ford modular motor.
I always use (and recommend to others) OEM filters during the warranty. After that, it's all on me.
Also, sometimes the OEM filter IS the best choice...i.e. the Motorcraft FL820S on a Ford modular motor.
I've been using over sized filters for decades on everything from 1/4 million dollar pieces of equipment to my lawn mower engine,have i ever had a engine failure becuse of it???
NOPE!
NOPE!
Matter of fact we were instructed to(go oversized)run/switch over hydraulic filters part #'s in our big Challenger because of fluctuations and filter loading thus throwing codes all to often.
no disadvantages that i can see if specs are close to what manufacture states.
no disadvantages that i can see if specs are close to what manufacture states.
Originally Posted By: daman
Matter of fact we were instructed to(go oversized)run/switch over hydraulic filters part #'s in our big Challenger because of fluctuations and filter loading thus throwing codes all to often.
no disadvantages that i can see if specs are close to what manufacture states.
The problem is why give the manufacture ANY reason to hassle the owner IF the vehicle is under warranty?
If its out of warranty and you are accepting ANY risk then go for it. My point was not to be changing filters back to the OEM before someone takes it back to the stealership for warranty work.
And I do feel that the standard size is going to work just fine for most apps.
Take care, Bill
Matter of fact we were instructed to(go oversized)run/switch over hydraulic filters part #'s in our big Challenger because of fluctuations and filter loading thus throwing codes all to often.
no disadvantages that i can see if specs are close to what manufacture states.
The problem is why give the manufacture ANY reason to hassle the owner IF the vehicle is under warranty?
If its out of warranty and you are accepting ANY risk then go for it. My point was not to be changing filters back to the OEM before someone takes it back to the stealership for warranty work.
And I do feel that the standard size is going to work just fine for most apps.
Take care, Bill
I agree Bill. Tempting fate with a car that is under warranty is not a good idea, unless you are willing to fight if there is a problem, or put the stock filter back on before bringing the car in for repair should there be a problem. Does a mfg have the right to deny a claim if they feel an oil or filter that wasn't specified is used and there is a problem? YES. Do they all the time? Maybe, maybe not. It is a lot easier to follow the OM use oil and a filter that is recommended and make life easier, in the event of a problem.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: daman
Matter of fact we were instructed to(go oversized)run/switch over hydraulic filters part #'s in our big Challenger because of fluctuations and filter loading thus throwing codes all to often.
no disadvantages that i can see if specs are close to what manufacture states.
The problem is why give the manufacture ANY reason to hassle the owner IF the vehicle is under warranty?
If its out of warranty and you are accepting ANY risk then go for it. My point was not to be changing filters back to the OEM before someone takes it back to the stealership for warranty work.
And I do feel that the standard size is going to work just fine for most apps.
Take care, Bill
No problems here bill,we all do what we think is best for us.
Originally Posted By: daman
Matter of fact we were instructed to(go oversized)run/switch over hydraulic filters part #'s in our big Challenger because of fluctuations and filter loading thus throwing codes all to often.
no disadvantages that i can see if specs are close to what manufacture states.
The problem is why give the manufacture ANY reason to hassle the owner IF the vehicle is under warranty?
If its out of warranty and you are accepting ANY risk then go for it. My point was not to be changing filters back to the OEM before someone takes it back to the stealership for warranty work.
And I do feel that the standard size is going to work just fine for most apps.
Take care, Bill
No problems here bill,we all do what we think is best for us.
On new cars with a warranty, I usually stick to the same size filter, but usually for a year, to get the bugs worked out of the car. Afterwards, if there's a bigger filter, I'll use it,but I do keep an OE filter on hand just in case.
my 4.0 Ranger uses the 2x size filter now, I have a regular FL1a sitting on the shelf for just in case I forgot to get the bigger one.
I have a case of Group 7 (Purolator B filters with no adbv) fitting my taurus, it's the same thread/oring as the fl-1a. I can always use that in a hitch.. but it'd look really spooky with it..
But those group 7's have no adbv and it's fine bcause the angle on the taurus is 45deg anyway, so what little oil drips back into the pan is irrelevant.
Sorry about that tangent..
but yeah, I use a bigger filter whenever I can, except on the toyota's where the filter mounts upward, I use the OE size and make sure it's got an adbv because it's actually a requirement for that motor! And there's not a lot of space as it is, so a bigger filter isn't exactly that practical.
I use the PF932F (the 2x size) version of the PF1216/PH5/51560
This monster goes on my father in laws work van that houses a carpet steamer connected to the motor.
I unfortunately am stuck doing the maintenance on it and it's not that I can't do it.. I don't want to!
So this van is outfitted with all synthetics vs. the dino [censored] that the stealership put in, the engine runs a tad smoother, and I know when it's revved up to 2500rpm, and sits there for hours on end.. the oil won't give out, NOR will the extra oil that's in the filter..
For me, that extra quart is another quart of oil that can be cooled down. The sump doesn't see extra oil, and once the filter is "primed" then hey.. that extra oil to me in invisible to the motor.. oil pressure stays constant, and the temperature I would hope gets somewhat regulated.
He had to goto the stealership for a fuel pump because I wouldn't take time off work to do it. So he ran over there (again). and they lectured him about the big ol' 2x size Wix filter I had on there. I put a heat sink sleeve on it as well as a magnet ring. They told him how bad it was to have the extra oil, and how the engine has to struggle more and how GM never approved it, and how dangerous it was to have the oil be too cool.
He told them to literally pound rocks. He's had that setup by me the last 3 years and has had no engine oil issues at all.
He told them off and I was amazed.. he usually believes them.
So I told him it was nothing but an advantage.. and what did it matter to them.. there's no warranty on the van, there never was since the power take off shaft was installed. So you might as well take advantage of extra oil that'll ONLY help at 2500rpm.
Yeah.. that motor takes an enormous amount of abuse.
Now if I could get the [censored] hydroboost hoses to STOP LEAKING.. I'd be happy.
this'll be the 4th set I'm putting on.. then again.. with a motor that literally just idles away and doesn't actually drive a lot.. I can understand why they're giving out. the Gates hoses have held up better.. actually the leaky hose was an ac delco hose I put on a year ago.
my 4.0 Ranger uses the 2x size filter now, I have a regular FL1a sitting on the shelf for just in case I forgot to get the bigger one.
I have a case of Group 7 (Purolator B filters with no adbv) fitting my taurus, it's the same thread/oring as the fl-1a. I can always use that in a hitch.. but it'd look really spooky with it..
But those group 7's have no adbv and it's fine bcause the angle on the taurus is 45deg anyway, so what little oil drips back into the pan is irrelevant.
Sorry about that tangent..
but yeah, I use a bigger filter whenever I can, except on the toyota's where the filter mounts upward, I use the OE size and make sure it's got an adbv because it's actually a requirement for that motor! And there's not a lot of space as it is, so a bigger filter isn't exactly that practical.
I use the PF932F (the 2x size) version of the PF1216/PH5/51560
This monster goes on my father in laws work van that houses a carpet steamer connected to the motor.
I unfortunately am stuck doing the maintenance on it and it's not that I can't do it.. I don't want to!
So this van is outfitted with all synthetics vs. the dino [censored] that the stealership put in, the engine runs a tad smoother, and I know when it's revved up to 2500rpm, and sits there for hours on end.. the oil won't give out, NOR will the extra oil that's in the filter..
For me, that extra quart is another quart of oil that can be cooled down. The sump doesn't see extra oil, and once the filter is "primed" then hey.. that extra oil to me in invisible to the motor.. oil pressure stays constant, and the temperature I would hope gets somewhat regulated.
He had to goto the stealership for a fuel pump because I wouldn't take time off work to do it. So he ran over there (again). and they lectured him about the big ol' 2x size Wix filter I had on there. I put a heat sink sleeve on it as well as a magnet ring. They told him how bad it was to have the extra oil, and how the engine has to struggle more and how GM never approved it, and how dangerous it was to have the oil be too cool.
He told them to literally pound rocks. He's had that setup by me the last 3 years and has had no engine oil issues at all.
He told them off and I was amazed.. he usually believes them.
So I told him it was nothing but an advantage.. and what did it matter to them.. there's no warranty on the van, there never was since the power take off shaft was installed. So you might as well take advantage of extra oil that'll ONLY help at 2500rpm.
Yeah.. that motor takes an enormous amount of abuse.
Now if I could get the [censored] hydroboost hoses to STOP LEAKING.. I'd be happy.
this'll be the 4th set I'm putting on.. then again.. with a motor that literally just idles away and doesn't actually drive a lot.. I can understand why they're giving out. the Gates hoses have held up better.. actually the leaky hose was an ac delco hose I put on a year ago.
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