Benefits of Running a Larger Oil Filter? (Cold starts etc)

J

jtay2024

Joined
Dec 9, 2015
Messages
161
Location
England
Hi all,

I saw a post recently on here of a small filter that had been cut up. It was on a pretty large engine. I was wondering, would there be any benefits of running an oversize filter?

For example, my engine bay has plenty of space for a longer filter. If I could find one with the same diameter seal, and same thread, would there be any reason not to use one with a larger length allowing for more media?

From what I understand, filters start in "Bypass mode" when the oil is cold which allows unfiltered oil around the filter media to make sure flow stays up when the oil is thick. If you had a larger filter with more media surface, would that mean the bypass valve would close earlier?

The cost difference would be negligable if I could find one from another vehicle and same company such as Bosch or Mann.

Cheers!
 
For example, here are the specifications for the filter for my civic 1.6 diesel.

MANN-FILTER Online Catalog Europe - Product Details Oil Filter W 7069

MANN-FILTER Online Catalog Europe - Product Details Oil Filter W 7069
catalog.mann-filter.com catalog.mann-filter.com

Here is one that would fit judging by all the dimensions available. It'd just be longer, but that would be fine as the engine bay has plenty of clearance below the filter.

MANN-FILTER Online Catalog Europe - Product Details Oil Filter W 713/16

MANN-FILTER Online Catalog Europe - Product Details Oil Filter W 713/16
catalog.mann-filter.com catalog.mann-filter.com

Both have an anti-drainback valve, both have the same bypass pressure setting. Both have the same diameters & threads.

The height difference is 40mm, so that's an increase of 59%.
 
Jetronic said:
is the media as efficient?
Click to expand...
This is a good question! I'd probably have to buy one and take it apart / check under a microscope the difference between the two. Looking at the vehicle application the larger one is predominantly used on older vehicles. That would be concerning!

That is, however, just one out of around 10 that came up when searched on the MANN website, so I'll look for one that has more modern applications.

I did do some searching on here, and found that some people do run oversize filters, and they haven't seen issues. The only issue highlighted would potentially be longer to charge the filter at start up, but it's mounted upside down in my car anyway so would stay perminently full of oil anyway.
 
jtay2023 said:
The only issue highlighted would potentially be longer to charge the filter at start up, but it's mounted upside down in my car anyway so would stay perminently full of oil anyway.
Click to expand...

Not sure what brand filter you are speaking of, but consider this.

Many filters’ anti drain back valves leak. Some filters are empty in less than an hour.
 
Faawrenchbndr said:
Not sure what brand filter you are speaking of, but consider this.

Many filters’ anti drain back valves leak. Some filters are empty in less than an hour.
Click to expand...

Yeah I understand, but the one on my car is mounted inverted so the threads at the top. The only place for the oil to go is down into the filter. My other car, however, has it's filter mounted on the side facing slightly downward so I'd expect that could leak back down.
 
A larger filter, given the same material, pleating, and construction otherwise, will tend to reduce the pressure drop across the filter at the same oil flow volume which improves filtration efficiency and reduces bypass events. It can also extend filter life through increased loading capacity, allowing it to filter longer before becoming clogged. There's also the slight increase in oil capacity and increased can surface area to aid in cooling.

Just be mindful of other things like the presence of a bypass. Some engines have the filter bypass built into the block and thus don't have it in the filter, allowing for more filter area. If that's your case, and your longer filter contains a bypass, you could end up with the same or slightly less total filter area compared to the smaller one without a bypass.
 
Generally filters do not start in "bypass mode". Only really cold oil combined with a significant flare of engine rpm and of thick viscosity may cause BP to occur for a very brief moment of time. This has never proven to be substantially harmful. Jim Allen, many years ago, ran some dP BP testing and concluded that BP events are generally rare, and even when they do occur, nothing bad is happening; his UOAs were fine.

This is an overblown topic that seems to rear its head a few times a year; I guess it's time again ....
 
I called FRAM about running the longer 7317 filter on the `20 CX5 in my sig. as I already have them in stock for my Honda's. The guy I spoke to said "NO" only the 6607 is allowed.

Also there was some confusion on some Mazda forums about anti-drain back valve or not to have as the Mazda filter do not have an anti-drain back. So I reached a dead end with uncertain answers so I am running the 1WPE-14-302 in mine until I know better.
 
dnewton3 said:
Generally filters do not start in "bypass mode". Only really cold oil combined with a significant flare of engine rpm and of thick viscosity may cause BP to occur for a very brief moment of time. This has never proven to be substantially harmful. Jim Allen, many years ago, ran some dP BP testing and concluded that BP events are generally rare, and even when they do occur, nothing bad is happening; his UOAs were fine.

This is an overblown topic that seems to rear its head a few times a year; I guess it's time again ....
Click to expand...
Well to be honest, I think the thread sums it all up really. There is very little point, it's hard to be sure whether the media of larger filters would be safe to use (due to it being for different vehicles), and without cutting them open you don't know how much media area you are gaining anyway. Cheers all!

Is it possible to close this thread so it doesn't just become a big messy conversation like they sometimes do? Everything posted so far sumarises this all quite well. Thanks all.
 
Pros:
- Larger dirt holding capacity
- Less likely to bypass
- Increases engine oil capacity
- Reduces the required pumping power of the oil pump, very slightly increasing fuel efficiency and engine power
- Can be cheaper if it allows for another OCI between filter changes

Cons:
- Increases the time to build oil pressure on cold starts if filter doesn't stay full of oil between starts
- Can be more likely to get punctured by road debris, depending on filter location
- Potential engine warranty issues

If the cons are relevant to your application, they would outweigh the pros IMO. As far as bypassing on cold start, its something that generally occurs for only about a second after the engine is started. The oil in the sump should be pretty clean in the first place. It's not anything to worry about.
 
Help me understand why we would run a filter other than what has been engineered and specified for our vehicles? The oil filter manufacturers have engineering teams to insure their filters meet/exceed the lubrication and filtration requirements of the manufacturers' engine.
 
zfasts03 said:
I called FRAM about running the longer 7317 filter on the `20 CX5 in my sig. as I already have them in stock for my Honda's. The guy I spoke to said "NO" only the 6607 is allowed.

Also there was some confusion on some Mazda forums about anti-drain back valve or not to have as the Mazda filter do not have an anti-drain back. So I reached a dead end with uncertain answers so I am running the 1WPE-14-302 in mine until I know better.
Click to expand...
Well you definitely want an anti drain back valve since dirt collected during engine run can siphon back the the oil pan.
Especially with paper media filters.
Synthetic media tends to grab and hold the dirt even big chunks, with paper the larger chunks of dirt tend to fall to the bottom of the filter.
 
jtay2023 said:
Hi all,

I saw a post recently on here of a small filter that had been cut up. It was on a pretty large engine. I was wondering, would there be any benefits of running an oversize filter?

For example, my engine bay has plenty of space for a longer filter. If I could find one with the same diameter seal, and same thread, would there be any reason not to use one with a larger length allowing for more media?

From what I understand, filters start in "Bypass mode" when the oil is cold which allows unfiltered oil around the filter media to make sure flow stays up when the oil is thick. If you had a larger filter with more media surface, would that mean the bypass valve would close earlier?

The cost difference would be negligable if I could find one from another vehicle and same company such as Bosch or Mann.

Cheers!
Click to expand...
I run a 50% longer filter with a higher bypass pressure on my wife's car, it uses the same media according to wix, both have anti drain back and it only costs $2 to $3 more. The longer filter is also much easier to grab hood of.
On my Dodge pickup I run a bigger filter too, it costs like $1 more.
I always get the bigger filter if I can.
I figure if the stock size filter rarely goes into bypass then a 30% to 50% oversized filter should probably never go into bypass as long as I change the oil some.
 
I use the STP S373 2 Qt, filter on my Silverado and the longer Wix/NAPA 57045 filters on both wifes 08 Malibu LTZ 3.6 and 17 Regal GS 2.0T ;)
 
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