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Handgun as primary
- Thread starter weaponoffreedom
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Anything less than a M134 is a compromise!
- We all need to carry,,,
See also - References
2023 Lewiston s
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
| This article documents a recent mass shooting. Information may change rapidly as the event progresses, and initial news reports may be unreliable. The latest updates to this article may not reflect the most current information. Feel free to improve this article or discuss changes on the talk page, but please note that updates without valid and reliable references will be removed. (October 2023) (Learn how and when to remove this template message) |
| 2023 Lewiston shootings | |
|---|---|
| Part of mass shootings in the United States | |
 An image of the suspect released by the Androscoggin County Sheriff's Office | |
 Wikimedia | © OpenStreetMap [Interactive fullscreen map + nearby articles] | |
| Location | Lewiston, Maine, U.S. |
| October 25, 2023; 1 day ago 6:56 p.m. – 7:08 p.m.[1] (EDT) | |
| Attack type | Mass shooting, spree shooting |
| Deaths | 18 |
| Injured | 13 |
I am interested to find out if he took any fire from CCW citizens, and was he wearing body armor? Some of the pics make me think he was wearing ballistic protection.
- We all need to carry,,,
See also- References
2023 Lewiston s
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This article documents a recent mass shooting. Information may change rapidly as the event progresses, and initial news reports may be unreliable. The latest updates to this article may not reflect the most current information. Feel free to improve this article or discuss changes on the talk page, but please note that updates without valid and reliable references will be removed. (October 2023) (Learn how and when to remove this template message) On October 25, 2023, a mass shooting occurred in two locations in Lewiston, Maine, United States. 18 people were killed and 13 others were injured. The Androscoggin County Sheriff's Office released a photo of a person of interest, while a manhunt is ongoing.
2023 Lewiston shootings Part of mass shootings in the United States
An image of the suspect released by the Androscoggin County Sheriff's Office
Wikimedia | © OpenStreetMap
[Interactive fullscreen map + nearby articles]Location Lewiston, Maine, U.S. October 25, 2023; 1 day ago
6:56 p.m. – 7:08 p.m.[1] (EDT)Attack type Mass shooting, spree shooting Deaths 18 Injured 13
Thoughts?
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I see a weak individual, or a robot. Body armor is really irrelevant, unless you have full armor on legs, arms, head, which he did not. A shot in the leg or arm properly placed would slow or stop the shooting until a permanent shot could be made.
Terrible situation. Wish someone who was there was armed, trained, and ready. Not sure of all the facts though.
Primary defensive firearm?
Outside the home it’s a pistol, since open carrying of rifles and shotguns is pretty much frowned up everywhere.
In the home, it’s a long gun ALWAYS. Period. I’ll always pick a long gun. I have extensive gun training and a long gun will work over a pistol. It’s not even close.
Perhaps if you had a decent alarm system you would be well aware of an intruder before needing to use a 9 mm to get to a long gun.
I do! It's a 90 pound German Sheppard.
I think rifles and shotguns can make a less than ideal choice for home defense. They can be grabbed easy by a perp off you if your caught off guard when you're walking in your home looking for what went "bump in the night".
My primary home defense gun is an Sig P365 with a Crimson Trace green laser made for the P365. It turns on automatically when gripping the gun. The P365 is small and no pleasure shooter. The laser allows me to quickly and accurately acquire the target. I don't need to use the sights on the gun and can accurately hit a target if I'm holding the gun at waist level if needed.
My primary home defense gun is an Sig P365 with a Crimson Trace green laser made for the P365. It turns on automatically when gripping the gun. The P365 is small and no pleasure shooter. The laser allows me to quickly and accurately acquire the target. I don't need to use the sights on the gun and can accurately hit a target if I'm holding the gun at waist level if needed.
If he is close enough to grab my shotgun, I am close enough to grab them...and then I wager my odds are even higher.
The scenario of a perp being able to surprise an individual defending themselves, and being close enough to grab a gun, seems to imply that the defender is roaming the house looking for the perp. I've been trained not to do that.
One of the trainers at a course I took suggested that, as long as you know all of your loved ones are out of harms way, that the safest defense, is to position yourself in your bedroom, gun aimed at the closed bedroom door, and a high intensity light also aimed at the door, from a different position than where you are standing. Wait for the perp to come to you.
The trainer also stated that data suggests that if you wander your home looking for an intruder, you have a 50/50 chance of getting killed, or at least seriously injured. Except for my wife, there is nothing in my home worth risking my life.
I'd be interested to hear from others that have had training on the subject. What have you been told? Do you sweep the house, looking for an intruder? Or do you set the trap, and wait for the intruder to come to you?
If I’m investigating a noise, I’ll go downstairs. I’m not trained in room-clearing, but I do have some weapon retention training.
But, and this is important, if I have a reasonable guess that there is someone in the house, I will remain at the top of the stairs while I (or Mrs. Astro) calls 911 and I warn them to leave.
Simplifies several things - the fatal funnel of a staircase makes target acquisition and engagement much simpler. It clarifies intent - there are many valuables downstairs. Coming up the stairs means they are after me or my family.
An intoxicated person in the wrong house, or a petty criminal intent on minor theft, will either leave, or remain downstairs. Move to the stairs, and my ROE is clearly met.
This is why I’m OK with a carbine or shotgun for home defense. I’m not clearing rooms. I have a solid defensive position and don’t need to worry about weapon retention, weapon length, or any other room clearing tactics.
Under no circumstances would I “set a trap”! The intruder needs to know that I am armed. I need to give them the opportunity to leave. It’s a moral imperative, and potentially, a legal one. I’m not engaging in some sneak attack. I’m defending life, that of my family, and if I get them to leave without having to shoot them, then, I’ve accomplished my objective without having to resort to lethal force.
Sun Tzu would approve, I think. Avoiding a fight is a victory.
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^This. I do have extensive training in clearing rooms but would not leave my family’s side as there would be a chance they would get past me and reach them if I did try to clear the house.
A friend gave me Massad Ayoob’s book, “In the Gravest Extreme” nearly 40 years ago.
Mas made the “top of the stairs” case in that book, and decades of reflection have not altered my adoption of his wise advice.
dnewton3
Staff member
Before I ever purchased my first handgun about 35 years ago, I read both that book and his "Stressfire" book as well.
Excellent reads.
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As for the rest of this conversation, it reminds me of the "what's the best oil/filter/tire/toothpaste" topics.
To ask if a handgun should be one's "primary" gun, and yet not define the situation(s) involved, as if every life event is a boundless set of circumstances, is pure silliness. There are too many "what it... " scenarios left unsaid to give a decent answer here.
Should I use my Glk as my primary weapon? Maybe yes, maybe no.
Am I at a restaurant? Hard to conceal an AR under my suit coat. Whereas the Glk might be inferior in many aspects to a battle rifle, it's also concealable and discrete. A Glk is also better than a knife, and a knife is better than my fists. Etc ...
Am I at home? Who else is home with me, and where are they located in the home? Is it daytime or nighttime? Is my house clad with heavy brick or cheap vinyl siding (will shots go through the exterior walls, barely impeded or seriously fragmented)?
Yada, yada, yada ...
A handgun can be an excellent or poor primary choice, depending on a slew of circumstances that would lend to an infinity of possible solutions.
The best gunfight is the one you avoid. But if you cannot avoid the fight, then it's better to be properly outfitted for the specific situation. That means not having just one gun for all situations, but rather picking the right gun for the most likely potential circumstances, and adapting from there.
Similar tactic. It is probably a poor choice of words for me to have said "set a trap". Instead, it is more of a hide and wait in a defensive posture.
I can see how your method, of positioning yourself at the top of stairs, could easily be adapted to positioning at the end of a hallway.
I can see how your method, of positioning yourself at the top of stairs, could easily be adapted to positioning at the end of a hallway.
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Massad Ayoob is a wise person, a bit, conceited, but wise. His assertion of "upstairs" really has to do with a definitive "line in the sand" moving toward proving to a jury that the use of deadly force was just.
This video is the best one on the subject ever.
Not only do you have to prove the necessity for lethal force to a Jury - you have to prove it to yourself. Before you shoot someone, you need to know that they were a lethal threat. The second story/upstairs strategy helps you, and the Jury, know the intent of the assailant.
Valuables downstairs. People upstairs.
They come upstairs - they were after YOU.
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I was a NC concealed carry instructor, that video covers everything and then some.
It has been argued that since the vast vast majority of breakins happen after a place is "cased", and thereby happen when no one is home, that a breakin while you are at home (home invasion), by proxy, presents an imminent danger, being as the assailant could have reasonably known that you were home, and thereby intended to be there while occupied. The only reason would be one of the covered reasons for justifiable homicide.
It is better to be the witness than the shooter.
As he stated in the video, we have an awesome power, and that power comes with a commensurate responsibility.
I advocate for gun training, free of charge, by the government, and of course a monthly supply of ammo for said training
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