Ford V10 6.8L cold start issue

[pacem]

Cold start - good crank, fuel pressure - no start.

warm start - works just fine. Crank and quick start.

I had the fuel pump replaced, fuel pump control module, was looking into crank pos sensor, camshaft pos sensor, MAF, etc. Just now realized after reading the above it's most likely the ECT sensor.

Or could it be the TABV (throttle air bypass valve) sticking?

It idles and runs very nice.

 

[Lubener]

You're guessing. Many times by bindly throwing parts at it, you can introduce another problem.

ECT's can easily be checked with an ohm meter for various coolant emperatures. Run a code scan and maybe that will give you some direction.

Maybe posting a third time might get the answer you seek.

 

[D60]

Did you figure reality would change with a new thread?

Ford F550 V10 6.8L does not start

I've had this problem for 2 years and now just finally trying to resolve it. 2012 F550 Super Duty shuttle bus, V10 6.8L gasoline. 53K miles. It will crank forever and not start. Sometimes it will start after a minute of cranking, if I hit the gas pedal. Once it starts, it seems to run well and...

bobistheoilguy.com

Here you were at least asking about a scanner, did you give up on trying to obtain useful data that might actually allow you to diagnose the problem instead of guessing over and over?

Code scanner suggestions

2012 F550 6.8, V10 Crank no start position. One mechanic think it's bad gas. The other it's the Camshaft position sensor. I need to pull the codes. Need a scanner, something in the $300 range.

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[pacem]

Pulled the codes. There are no codes. Just a few O2 sensor codes which have nothing to do with it.

I'v had this issue for almost 2 years. Gradually getting worse. Now it does not start at all. For the last 3 months.

I've had several mechanics try to fix it. One craigslist special class act took $500 and disappeared.
The second one thinks it's bad gas. I have been trying to identify the fuel transfer pump which would pump out the 50 gallon tank.
The third one thinks it's the cam position sensor but won't guarantee it, basically throwing parts at it. I think the crank position sensor is more likely, but I don't know.
The last one is just a pretty good parts swapper with no understanding of the starting process. He swapped the fuel pump to no avail. I don't think it's the fuel delivery issue.

I am stranded in a bad place I need to leave ASAP, in a rental place where the crazy landlord keeps filing false protective orders against me trying to leave. Last time I had to be out of the house for a week, unable to work on it. I thought she would tow it away somewhere.

Nobody can fix it, not even on ford-trucks forums. And I don't know who can tow a 32-passenger shuttle bus to a garage.

 

[D60]

It's not just about pulling codes. You need to look at live data which you can do even when it's not running.

You need to see MAF, ECT values etc. Fuel rail pressure. You can watch crank signal while cranking.

You repaired the broken MAF wiring if I recall?

 

[D60]

You're getting the same suggestions at FTE. And you've got projectSHO89 trying to help you (he also says no ECT on the later V10's).

Crank, no start: Crankshaft, camshaft position sensor or MAF? Warm start OK - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Modular V10 (6.8l) - Crank, no start: Crankshaft, camshaft position sensor or MAF? Warm start OK - 2012 F550 V10 6.8L 53K miles Cranks forever with no starting. Good fuel pressure, new fuel pump and fuel pump regulator. Crank position sensor? Camshaft pos sensor I know the MAF sensor has one of...

www.ford-trucks.com

If you work the problem with him he'll get you there, but no one has a crystal ball to just hand you a magical answer. Data is needed, and you can obtain it relatively easily and inexpensively with FORscan.

Or, call a commercial wrecker to tow it.....

 

[pacem]

I scanned it. No codes. Multiple times. Cleared them and will re-scan. Well had people rescan for me. I will get my own scanner.
If it were that simple. All the simple, obvious things I've done.
I got the wiring to fix the MAF but have not installed it yet.
I unplugged the MAF sensor - so it would default to default values - no change.

The guy that was here two days ago said it's the spark issue. Which sounds plausible. Then he wanted $600 to swap the Cam position sensor, which I was skeptical about as seemed he was just shooting in the dark. I am at the point of towing it somewhere and then having them throw parts at it until it's fixed (and I end up with a $2000 or $3000 bill).

 

[D60]

Again, you're beyond CODES. Stop fixating on codes. Don't even look for codes. Don't talk about codes.

You'll need to view values of certain critical sensors or PIDs (parameter ID's) to see what the truck is seeing. You'll need to know roughly what the values should be, but that's easy to figure by searching the web or asking on a forum.

This is not codes. This aspect of live data has nothing to do with codes. Forget codes for now.

I suspect you're too impatient to watch this but maybe someone else in the future will want to:



The lack of codes means nothing. What means something is real-world results, ie the truck won't start. Not every problem sets a code. Forget codes.

 

[Soft Cars]

Did you figure reality would change with a new thread?

Ford F550 V10 6.8L does not start

I've had this problem for 2 years and now just finally trying to resolve it. 2012 F550 Super Duty shuttle bus, V10 6.8L gasoline. 53K miles. It will crank forever and not start. Sometimes it will start after a minute of cranking, if I hit the gas pedal. Once it starts, it seems to run well and...

bobistheoilguy.com

Here you were at least asking about a scanner, did you give up on trying to obtain useful data that might actually allow you to diagnose the problem instead of guessing over and over?

Code scanner suggestions

2012 F550 6.8, V10 Crank no start position. One mechanic think it's bad gas. The other it's the Camshaft position sensor. I need to pull the codes. Need a scanner, something in the $300 range.

bobistheoilguy.com

That's some good detective work right there D60. Well done.

 

[Number_35]

@pacem, you can easily check for spark yourself, with a helper to turn the key.

You can remove a spark plug wire at the plug, insert a screw driver into the end of the wire, and hold the shaft of the screwdriver close (c. 1/2") from a ground.

Even easier, there are devices that slip around a spark plug wire that will light up as current passes through the wire. (I think the tool contains neon gas, which is energized by mutual induction.)

Anyway, I would start there - confirming spark (or no spark) will narrow it down.

 

[D60]

@pacem, you can easily check for spark yourself, with a helper to turn the key.

You can remove a spark plug wire at the plug, insert a screw driver into the end of the wire, and hold the shaft of the screwdriver close (c. 1/2") from a ground.

Even easier, there are devices that slip around a spark plug wire that will light up as current passes through the wire. (I think the tool contains neon gas, which is energized by mutual induction.)

Anyway, I would start there - confirming spark (or no spark) will narrow it down.

These are deep well COP. No wire except the light gauge wires which tell the COP to fire, and a long boot to reach the plug.

 

[thastinger]

Pulled the codes. There are no codes. Just a few O2 sensor codes which have nothing to do with it.

I'v had this issue for almost 2 years. Gradually getting worse. Now it does not start at all. For the last 3 months.

I've had several mechanics try to fix it. One craigslist special class act took $500 and disappeared.
The second one thinks it's bad gas. I have been trying to identify the fuel transfer pump which would pump out the 50 gallon tank.
The third one thinks it's the cam position sensor but won't guarantee it, basically throwing parts at it. I think the crank position sensor is more likely, but I don't know.
The last one is just a pretty good parts swapper with no understanding of the starting process. He swapped the fuel pump to no avail. I don't think it's the fuel delivery issue.

I am stranded in a bad place I need to leave ASAP, in a rental place where the crazy landlord keeps filing false protective orders against me trying to leave. Last time I had to be out of the house for a week, unable to work on it. I thought she would tow it away somewhere.

Nobody can fix it, not even on ford-trucks forums. And I don't know who can tow a 32-passenger shuttle bus to a garage.

You'll have to take the filler hose off the tank to be able to siphon it out, you wont be able to get a hose past the anti theft grid in the filler next. Alternatively, if there isn't a ton of fuel in it, you can remove the schrader valve from the fuel rail fuel pressure check point valve and clamp a hose to that going to gas cans (itll take forever)

 

[D60]

You'll have to take the filler hose off the tank to be able to siphon it out, you wont be able to get a hose past the anti theft grid in the filler next. Alternatively, if there isn't a ton of fuel in it, you can remove the schrader valve from the fuel rail fuel pressure check point valve and clamp a hose to that going to gas cans (itll take forever)

Not sure there is a schraeder, even my '07 4.6 doesn't have one. At least Ford makes it a PID you can read. On things like the Toyota 3.4 and some Nissans (a '14 Rouge was my experience) you have to hack into the system with fittings of your own imagination if you really want to see fp.

 

[thastinger]

Not sure there is a schraeder, even my '07 4.6 doesn't have one. At least Ford makes it a PID you can read. On things like the Toyota 3.4 and some Nissans (a '14 Rouge was my experience) you have to hack into the system with fittings of your own imagination if you really want to see fp.

That's interesting. My 98 F150 5.4 does have one, on the passenger side, so I figured the test port was a standard thing.

 

[DriveHard]

coolant temp sensor...

 

[D60]

coolant temp sensor...

CHT here. Ford seemingly got away without a single sensor touching liquid coolant.

edit: actually, for the gauge, maybe? But if CHT panics it pegs the gauge

 

[Number_35]

These are deep well COP. No wire except the light gauge wires which tell the COP to fire, and a long boot to reach the plug.

You can tell I'm old-school. I should have known, though - my work truck for over 10 years was a 2002 F-350 with the 6.8.

 

[pacem]

So I ran ForScan and added these values. The video above is for an older version of the software, the first one that came up, some of the buttons changed but I figured it out anyway.

Not sure that I am looking at the right values. I think Camshaft position sensor is cleared. It's not signaled as faulty.
I am not sure which value correlates to the Crank Position Sensor. ENG_CRANK?
I just added everything that seemed semi-relevant. Still no real clue as to what is not functioning. I added all the 10 injectors, they are not flagged as faulty as seen below.
What is the list of items I need to add to the watch list, the max is 28 apparently.

IAT registers at -40 Centigrade? That seems wrong right there. It was +25C outside (with the engine cold) when I did this.

This one is when cranking the engine:

And that's the table view:

 

[pacem]

@pacem, you can easily check for spark yourself, with a helper to turn the key.

You can remove a spark plug wire at the plug, insert a screw driver into the end of the wire, and hold the shaft of the screwdriver close (c. 1/2") from a ground.

Even easier, there are devices that slip around a spark plug wire that will light up as current passes through the wire. (I think the tool contains neon gas, which is energized by mutual induction.)

Anyway, I would start there - confirming spark (or no spark) will narrow it down.

Good idea. This can't hurt.

I have enough data to analyze, at this point it's the matter of adding the right 28 values to watch. I did hit the save button on ForScan. So it must have logged some data. But again, not sure I am getting the right set of sensors.

 

[pacem]

Intake Air Temperature -- would that sensor prevent it from starting?