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Is Fram OK now?

Posted By: AnonOIl

Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 12:38 AM

So in the past I have read/heard to avoid the "OCOD" for either the end caps not being made of metal, poor quality control, or hearing people claim with Fram filters they have lower oil pressure. However everything I see recently shows the "OCOD" holding up ok, and the TG and Ultra are even better. And they all now have Silicone ADBV's. So is the "OCOD" OK? It is very affordable at Walmart near me, only thing cheaper is a Supertech filter. Yes Fram, or no Fram and why? Thanks so much.
Posted By: dogememe

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 12:45 AM

I will not put Fram on anything out of principle and why bother when alternatives with a better reputation are readily available, such as Wix!
Posted By: rooflessVW

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 12:48 AM

I'm thinking there was never anything wrong with Fram - just people that don't know any better saying they're garbage because "they're made of paper!"
Posted By: skyactiv

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 12:58 AM

I used only Fram oil filters when my wife owned a 2012 Mazda3 with the 2.0L Skyactiv engine. Why? Fram was the only filter maker to list the proper oil filter when the car first came out. Other filter makers goofed and said to use the same oil filter used on the other, older 2.0L engine which has a different thread size. The end-caps aren't cardboard and don't flake apart. Use without worry.
Posted By: TheLawnRanger

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 12:58 AM

Fram is not the best but in a pinch I would use one.
Posted By: csandste

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 01:03 AM

Stories started by a disgruntled employee that just took off. Too bad there wasn't a Snopes for cars at that time.
Posted By: demarpaint

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 01:04 AM

Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
I'm thinking there was never anything wrong with Fram - just people that don't know any better saying they're garbage because "they're made of paper!"


That sums it up nicely in my book.
Posted By: joegreen

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 01:16 AM

I use fram because i got them for .75c from tractor supply. They seem to be working for me.
Posted By: Zee09

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 01:24 AM

Originally Posted By: dogememe
I will not put Fram on anything out of principle and why bother when alternatives with a better reputation are readily available, such as Wix!


What principle would that be?
Posted By: Onug

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 01:27 AM

Many cut-and-posts here prove they are quality filters that do the job they were designed for. You will never find agreement here on what’s the best filter, but they have multiple models and price points so you can’t go wrong.
Posted By: MParr

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 01:40 AM

I won’t use an ExtraGuard or ToughGuard on anything I own. I do have an Ultra Synthetic XG4957 on my new Toro zero turn mower. Experience with the OCOD is my reason for not using the two lower tier filters.
Posted By: bbhero

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 01:52 AM

The Fram orange can has been improved for several years now. More pleats in the pH 8 or ph 2, and pH 16 sizes has made those a fair amount better than they used to be. The other sizes like 7317, 6607, 4386, 4967, 3593a plus other sizes have also had some added media to improve their strength. The Fram orange can is a filter that can be run without any worries. I could be wrong but I think the Fram Ultra being made has good as it had been at the time... Also led to improvements being made to the tiered filters below the Ultra.
Posted By: sir1900

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 02:30 AM

FRAM has always been okay, even the OCOD, and I would have no problems using one.
Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 02:33 AM

The only problems I have with OCOD is the price. They seem pricey for what they are.
Posted By: dlundblad

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 02:36 AM

Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
The only problems I have with OCOD is the price. They seem pricey for what they are.


It's essentially a WIX/ NAPA Gold for under $4.
Posted By: Linctex

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 03:05 AM

Back in the 80's & 90's FRAM was made by Allied-Signal, and I got some bad ones in those days.
Posted By: maxdustington

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 03:53 AM

Orange Can of Delight (because it contains a silicone adbv).
Posted By: jongies3

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 04:01 AM

There was never anything wrong with Fram, just a bunch of hocus pocus claims that never had any merit. Run them with confidence, especially the Ultra! It's perhaps the best filter money can buy at the moment. I stocked up on a bunch of TG's during the TSC clearance and have no qualms about using them for 10k miles they are rated for if I wanted.

Probably the same people that say Pennzoil sludges up engines! Lol
Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 04:02 AM

Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
The only problems I have with OCOD is the price. They seem pricey for what they are.


It's essentially a WIX/ NAPA Gold for under $4.
How did you come to that conclusion?
Posted By: Snagglefoot

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 04:09 AM

There three levels of Fram: Extraguard, Toughguard and Ultra. It’s senseless to discuss a Fram in general, because the Fram Ultra is one of the best filters available while the other two are lesser than the Ultra.

coffee
Posted By: kawie_guy

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 04:35 AM

The Ultras have all the goods. The other two don't. I always buy the Ultra.
That being said, my old man has been running the orange filter for 50 years on dozens of vehicles with no issue. Ever. I keep trying to talk him into the Ultra, but he has a track record that is pointless to argue with.
Posted By: dishdude

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 05:54 AM

I'll use an Ultra without hesitation, but I see no reason to use an orange can or TG. Let us not forget some of the horrific cut and posts of orange cans over the years. There was a reason it was not the filter of choice.
Posted By: dishdude

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 05:54 AM

I'll use an Ultra without hesitation, but I see no reason to use an orange can or TG. Let us not forget some of the horrific cut and posts of orange cans over the years. There was a reason it was never the filter of choice.
Posted By: JeepWJ19

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 10:04 AM

Originally Posted By: dishdude
I'll use an Ultra without hesitation, but I see no reason to use an orange can or TG. Let us not forget some of the horrific cut and posts of orange cans over the years. There was a reason it was never the filter of choice.


Some of us like to change the filter in one OCI and have an OCI anywhere around 7-10k miles. So it absolutely makes sense to use a TG.
Posted By: mx5miata

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 10:19 AM

I dont see any harm in a Fram I have used them in the past and would again. Most OE filters dont seem any better made than a FRam. Any brand filter can fail especially now with longer service use and extended drains.
Posted By: Miller88

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 10:39 AM

I use an OCOD in the leased Nissan.

There's only a few filters with the right bypass specs for my Subaru FB25, Fram's higher end line is one of them.
The other 2 vehicles in the fleet get whatever is cheap. Usually ST filters
Posted By: Eddie

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 11:42 AM

FRAM has serviced tens of millions of engines over the decades without major issues such as media tears etc. FRAM was ALWAYS OK. Ed
Posted By: Oldtom

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 12:42 PM

I was one of the original " Fram Haters " In 1987, a bunch of guys at work got curious and bought a Fram orange can, AC Delco, and Purolator oil filter. We had a huge belt sander with a 4 inch wide belt. The filters were opened by sanding the crimp til the base plate came off. The other filters looked OK but the Fram end cap bonding was horrible. The slightest pull would cause the end cap to pull away. My job was manufacturing industrial air dryers and filters and we had a bunch of sharp engineers. All of the engineers were surprised at the lack of bond strength. I quit buying Frams then and just recently started back.

I made several mistakes with this test: A sample size of one part. The vibration of the belt sander may have broken the end cap bond. I spent years downing Fram without consdering that they might improve ( happens, even in a corporation ) or change hands.

I think Fram has stepped up their game and the OCOD is an OK econo filter. If the fiber end caps keep you up at night, get an Ultra, Wix, AC Delco, or whatever you want. I just got an oil filter cutter and will try to get some old filters for a cut and post. I am curious about the bond strength now.
Posted By: goodtimes

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 01:08 PM

I found a 1/2+" long piece of potting glue loose inside a Tough Guard and another piece on the baseplate. The fiber end cap was off center allowing the sharp center tube to be exposed and cut off the glue pieces. If that's OK not knowing whether pieces of glue are now in your engine, Fram EG or TG is the one to get.
Posted By: Zee09

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Oldtom
I was one of the original " Fram Haters " In 1987, a bunch of guys at work got curious and bought a Fram orange can, AC Delco, and Purolator oil filter. We had a huge belt sander with a 4 inch wide belt. The filters were opened by sanding the crimp til the base plate came off. The other filters looked OK but the Fram end cap bonding was horrible. The slightest pull would cause the end cap to pull away. My job was manufacturing industrial air dryers and filters and we had a bunch of sharp engineers. All of the engineers were surprised at the lack of bond strength. I quit buying Frams then and just recently started back.

I made several mistakes with this test: A sample size of one part. The vibration of the belt sander may have broken the end cap bond. I spent years downing Fram without consdering that they might improve ( happens, even in a corporation ) or change hands.

I think Fram has stepped up their game and the OCOD is an OK econo filter. If the fiber end caps keep you up at night, get an Ultra, Wix, AC Delco, or whatever you want. I just got an oil filter cutter and will try to get some old filters for a cut and post. I am curious about the bond strength now.


Honesty is rare these days
I see the same guys post about other items besides cars-filters etc.
They are spouting their experience in 1982 when it went bad or was bad.
Forgetting it is now many generations better or totally different.
I see it with guns as well. The guns were revised 15 times by three different owners and actually has no common parts
to the original and still they post on.

I use nothing but Ultras but If I ran Fram the corporation, I'd dump the OCOD and any other Internet troubled products
and that would end that. The troublemakers would be flamed because they don't even have a clue they are gone.
In my business having tiered products was troublesome. Make the best you can make and without making several versions you
can drop the cost of the premium product. Bring the Ultra to $6 retail and nobody can compete. And you don't have to cheapen
it up any as volume itself brings down the price.
Posted By: dlundblad

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 02:14 PM

Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: FordBroncoVWJeta
The only problems I have with OCOD is the price. They seem pricey for what they are.


It's essentially a WIX/ NAPA Gold for under $4.
How did you come to that conclusion?


Probably the same way you came to yours. crackmeup
Posted By: Hootbro

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 02:32 PM

You are more likely to get AIDS that have a FRAM oil filter failure. I bought into the all the banter and doomsayers for years. 99% of them are just parroting what they have heard and not knowing what they are looking at. If following recommended intervals and application, they are fine. Start getting past those margins, then any filter to include FRAM can take a dump.
Posted By: UG_Passat

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 02:43 PM

imo, the Fram OCOD started from the MiniMopar oil study, where they ripped Fram extended guards for its paper endcaps. BITOG's religion was metal endcaps or else it's [censored] (with crickets on that rationale when it came to cartridge filters)

Things started to change recently with Tear-o-lator, even with its "superior" metal endcap construction.
Posted By: deven

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 04:21 PM

Couple of reasons why I don't use Fram. First, I don't like wavy pleats because to me that just means that filter is made of subpar materials and secondly I don't use Fram Ultra's because it has always created a start up rattle that I don't get with other oil filters.
Posted By: chainblu

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 05:51 PM

There are 65,000+ members here on BITOG. If you were to poll each one, I'm sure your tally would have most saying Fram is "OK". If you are looking for somebody to tell you what you want to hear, you will have no problem finding someone to tell you Fram is the best thing since sliced bread OR Fram is junk. It just depends on what you want to hear.

I'm only using Fram as your example. The same could be said about Purolator, Wix, Mann, etc.
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 06:39 PM

Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
imo, the Fram OCOD started from the MiniMopar oil study, where they ripped Fram extended guards for its paper endcaps.


Maybe there weren't many filters using non-metal end caps back in those days. But if people put down oil filters without metal end caps today, they would be bad mouthing about 1/2 the filters on the market. Nothing wrong with non-metal end caps if they do the job that end caps are intended to do.
Posted By: David1

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 07:07 PM

They are ok... I just feel for the $ you can get the OE filter for you car for the same price...

For instance..

FORD use FORD oil filters

GM use Delco Oil Filters if you can find the none E version.

Dodge / Jeep use MOPAR.

BMW / AUDI / VW / MB use MANN .

However Fram is not that bad.. They can do a 3000 mile OCI.. and Im talking about Extra Gaurd
Posted By: goodtimes

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 07:07 PM

Many cartridge filters use plastic type end caps to pot the glue. That would be a good upgrade to the EG and TG and maybe they would have better centered caps with no loose glue.
Posted By: maxdustington

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 09:12 PM

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Many cartridge filters use plastic type end caps to pot the glue. That would be a good upgrade to the EG and TG and maybe they would have better centered caps with no loose glue.


If there was a problem with the cardboard end caps they would have changed them by now, they changed the abdv instead.
They also use the cardboard end caps on the TG.
What is the point in metal end caps if the media tears off them like a puro?
Posted By: goodtimes

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 10:32 PM

Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Many cartridge filters use plastic type end caps to pot the glue. That would be a good upgrade to the EG and TG and maybe they would have better centered caps with no loose glue.


If there was a problem with the cardboard end caps they would have changed them by now, they changed the abdv instead.
They also use the cardboard end caps on the TG.
What is the point in metal end caps if the media tears off them like a puro?


I don't know because I was saying why don't companies use plastic type end caps like they do for cartridge filters.
Posted By: bbhero

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/30/18 11:10 PM

Both of you guys make good points here.
Posted By: CR94

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/31/18 01:16 AM

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
... I don't know because I was saying why don't companies use plastic type end caps like they do for cartridge filters.
Why use end caps at all on cartridge filters? Not everybody does. No-end-cap designs have several advantages.
Posted By: Nyogtha

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/31/18 03:17 AM

Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Many cartridge filters use plastic type end caps to pot the glue. That would be a good upgrade to the EG and TG and maybe they would have better centered caps with no loose glue.


If there was a problem with the cardboard end caps they would have changed them by now, they changed the abdv instead.
They also use the cardboard end caps on the TG.
What is the point in metal end caps if the media tears off them like a puro?


Fram Filtration certainly saw value in metal end caps when they (briefly) had the Carquest contract, manufacturing CQ Red spin-on filters as essentially EG's with metal end caps and often flush style BPV's as used by Champion Labs in some models, the CQ Blue spin-ons were similarly essentially TG's with metal end caps and same BPV variations.
Posted By: jakewells

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/31/18 03:52 AM

good filters i just put a tough guard on my nova.
Posted By: bullwinkle

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/31/18 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Many cartridge filters use plastic type end caps to pot the glue. That would be a good upgrade to the EG and TG and maybe they would have better centered caps with no loose glue.


If there was a problem with the cardboard end caps they would have changed them by now, they changed the abdv instead.
They also use the cardboard end caps on the TG.
What is the point in metal end caps if the media tears off them like a puro?


Fram Filtration certainly saw value in metal end caps when they (briefly) had the Carquest contract, manufacturing CQ Red spin-on filters as essentially EG's with metal end caps and often flush style BPV's as used by Champion Labs in some models, the CQ Blue spin-ons were similarly essentially TG's with metal end caps and same BPV variations.
From what I've seen, the CQ Blue and Reds appeared to be a Champ Labs design, with the Blue basically using the same media as a Champ Mobil 1 filter, and the Red using regular cellulose with metal end caps, like the recently posted Service Champ. Now that Fram & Champ have split up, if Fram started making a CQ Red, it would look like WM TLE or Super Tech, an Ecore. Not that there's anything wrong with an Ecore or an Extra Guard-IN SHORT INTERVALS! I don't care what Fram states, I'm not going past 5K on the fiber end cap filters, too many instances of bent media, leaking/off center glue jobs, etc. Now the Ultra is a different story...
Posted By: dlundblad

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/31/18 03:16 PM

Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
Many cartridge filters use plastic type end caps to pot the glue. That would be a good upgrade to the EG and TG and maybe they would have better centered caps with no loose glue.


If there was a problem with the cardboard end caps they would have changed them by now, they changed the abdv instead.
They also use the cardboard end caps on the TG.
What is the point in metal end caps if the media tears off them like a puro?


I don't know because I was saying why don't companies use plastic type end caps like they do for cartridge filters.


I think they use the plastic on cartridges because the filter has to seal with an o ring to whatever it is on the engine it mates too. There's no plotting issues with metal end caps that's for sure. Lots of good filters on the market with metal end caps.

Who really knows what is cheaper with fiber vs. metal end caps on a spin on. If fiber really was cheaper, I personally think we'd see more fiber end capped filters on the market.
Posted By: DGXR

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/31/18 05:38 PM

A video went around many years ago where a standard Fram OCOD was cut apart, new, revealing a good sized hole in the media where the seam was not correctly attached. This happens with other filters and is not exclusive to Fram but this video got around a lot (nearly viral) and boosted Fram's poor reputation.

I would not buy a Fram when other better-made filters are available at the same price, or cheaper. If for some crazy reason the only filter available was a Fram, of course I would use it, and I would not worry (much) for the first few thousand miles. After that mileage, the oil really starts collecting/suspending debris and honestly I would change it out at my earliest convenience.

I have heard the Fram Ultra Guard (UG) is one of the best filters on the market today. NOT to be compared to the Fram XG OCOD.
Posted By: ZeeOSix

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 05/31/18 09:00 PM

Originally Posted By: DGXR
I have heard the Fram Ultra Guard (UG) is one of the best filters on the market today. NOT to be compared to the Fram XG OCOD.


EG = Extra Guard = Orange Can

TG = Tough Guard = Silver Can

XG = Ultra = Gold Can
Posted By: SilverFusion2010

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/01/18 01:31 AM

I just put a Fram extra guard on a Nissan Cube. They’re good for short intervals, 5k or less
Posted By: CR94

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/01/18 01:57 AM

Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
I just put a Fram extra guard on a Nissan Cube. They’re good for short intervals, 5k or less
What do you believe happens at 5001?
Posted By: Hootbro

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/01/18 02:05 AM

Originally Posted By: CR94
What do you believe happens at 5001?


That is a red herring statement. Everything has margins outside what the ratings for it may be.
Posted By: nike360baller

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/01/18 05:08 AM

Originally Posted By: jakewells
good filters i just put a tough guard on my nova.

I just put a TG on my civic. Mainly cuz I'm doing 4k OCIs but wouldn't go any more than 4k. Having said that, I'm going with more synthetic media of FU next.
Posted By: JeepWJ19

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/04/18 12:59 AM

Yes, my pretties, keep using the TGs smile
Posted By: jakewells

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/04/18 03:56 PM

Originally Posted By: nike360baller
Originally Posted By: jakewells
good filters i just put a tough guard on my nova.

I just put a TG on my civic. Mainly cuz I'm doing 4k OCIs but wouldn't go any more than 4k. Having said that, I'm going with more synthetic media of FU next.

I tried to find a ultra for my car locally but no one carries a XG30 i had to settle with a tough guard.
Posted By: bullwinkle

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/04/18 04:44 PM

Originally Posted By: CR94
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
I just put a Fram extra guard on a Nissan Cube. They’re good for short intervals, 5k or less
What do you believe happens at 5001?
Probably the same thing that happens at 4999-not much-but I wouldn't push one beyond 7500, there's been some examples of bent pleats & pulled in endcaps on the engineered media Frams with high mileage. When Ultras are (generally) available for $25-$30/6 pack on eBay, I don't really see the need to spend $7.50 on a lesser TG.
Posted By: 1JZ_E46

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/05/18 04:08 AM

“Is Fram OK now?”

Not for me, unless it’s an Ultra.
Posted By: Vuflanovsky

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/06/18 03:06 PM

Ultras have disappeared from several of my local auto parts houses including the national chains. My local WalMart still carries some models but I notice high volume models are never there anymore whereas previously, they might sell out but be back on the shelf a week later.

Personally, I don't find that much of a difference between the TG and XG for a 5K mile OCI as I doubt the media or end cap difference is likely to make it's presence known in that time.
Posted By: Matagonka

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/07/18 11:06 AM

Of course
Posted By: Rat407

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/11/18 03:55 PM

A friend ran Castrol 10w-30 and OCOD in his 88 Toyota pickup and ran it up to 300k miles with no issues running 3k oil/filter changes. To bad it was a NJ vehicle and died a rusty death.
Posted By: Garak

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/11/18 11:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
Ultras have disappeared from several of my local auto parts houses including the national chains. My local WalMart still carries some models but I notice high volume models are never there anymore whereas previously, they might sell out but be back on the shelf a week later.

They seemed to disappear from at least one Walmart, here, too. Now, considering our Walmarts never seem to have filter specials, I doubt they'd be able to compete with Canadian Tire or Partsource on Fram Ultra sales numbers.
Posted By: JohnnyO

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/18/18 10:59 PM

Originally Posted By: dishdude
I'll use an Ultra without hesitation, but I see no reason to use an orange can or TG. Let us not forget some of the horrific cut and posts of orange cans over the years. There was a reason it was never the filter of choice.


I look at it this way. The Orange Can Of Death is a cheaply made filter and the OE units are much better for usually the same price.
To get OE quality from Fram you need to step up to a TG or Ultra and spend more money than a Motorcraft or AC costs.
Posted By: Triple_Se7en

Re: Is Fram OK now? - 06/18/18 11:17 PM

Baloney
Had the AC Delco pf52 still contained a silicone ADBV, I'd be using them today. Instead, I get your orange can of death, which has silicone ADBV and doesn't clatter at startup. The OEM AC Delco does.

You picked that fight and lost.
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