Originally Posted by JAG
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by JAG
If I were the guy in charge of Red Line, I also would have made cheaper formulations for those that were to get formally approved. Cheaper ingredients can get the job done, so maximize profit. That doesn't mean the regular Red Line oils aren't good enough to pass the tests.
New formulation costs money. If you already have oil at disposal and claim to meet and exceed, then use that. Redline was all about 100% synthetic, now their falsely claim that BMW LL04 requires GroupIII base in amount higher of 50%. That is absolutely not true as there are numerous approved BMW LL04 oils with Group IV and V base.
On top of that NOACK of that oil is 11%, which means it will probably not be MB229.51 approved.
On 5W30 side they have also mediocre oil that got some approvals.
Company that is constantly involved in that shady marketing should be avoided by all means.
There are chemical limits on oils meeting specifications, and since typical Red Line oils are highly additivized, they violate most or all oil specs' chemical limits. New formulations do cost money but we don't know how much it would cost them to formulate/test/reformulate/re-test, etc., the oils. They can estimate that and can do the math on how many bottles of formally approved oils they would have to sell to make up the cost of that process. I don't think they would have had a need to do it because of the chemical limit matter, requiring new formulations, in my opinion.
I did not see Red Line say anything about at least 50% Group III for BMW LL04. What I see is:
"FULL SYNTHETIC -- OEM-required Group III/Group IV PAO Base Stocks".
I interpret that to mean that the oil specs that are met require synthetic base oils only, as defined in the United States (no Group I or II base stocks).
The 11% volatility: I see that and I also thought MB 229.5 requires 10% or less. I did check for formal MB 229.5 approval for Red Line 5W-40 and they got it. MB was satisfied that it met the spec.
I don't know what you saw that made you conclude that the 5W-30 version is mediocre. It's not a big deal to me...I'd never use those formally approved Red Line oils. I just posted because it seems that your opinions on this topic may stand on shaky footing and I thought it would be good if you reassessed the matter.
Speaking of chemical limits regarding additives. I found this little gem
"some lubricant companies were quick to launch aftermarket additive packages that contained zinc dithiophosphate (ZDDP), which only further elevated the problem. Research carried out by BIZOL reveals that excessive ZDDP levels might actually accelerate the timing chain wear. The issue has become so severe that OEMs were forced to initiate joint task-force development of a dedicated timing chain wear (TCW) test that is to be included in the forthcoming ILSAC GF-6 performance specifications for passenger car motor oils.
Courtesy of Prof. Dr. Boris Zhmud, Head of R&D, BIZOL Lubricants, www.bizol.us."
http://www.underhoodservice.com/timing-chain-wear-oil-quality/