Analysis paralysis - Need help choosing my next oil

[ExpandW]

The car in question is a European Accord with the N22A1 engine, which is a chain-driven DOHC diesel engine with hydraulic tappets. And the scary word there is "chain-driven", as this is a known weak spot with this engine. Honda says 0W30 oil is "preferred", then 0W40, and then 5W30 & 5W40 oils (ACEA A3/B4 or A5/B5). My current oil is Ravenol SSO, which is a PAO 0W30 with API SN, ACEA A3/B4, BMW LL-98 (approved), MB 229.5 (approved) and BMW LL-01 (recommended). With this oil, there was a very noticeable reduction in chain noise, compared to my previous oil, which was Ravenol FDS (the noise is more like scratching rather than knocking, hard to describe. Happens *after* a few seconds from starting, zero noise for those first few seconds, though when hot the noise is always there).
However the noise-reducing effect wore off after around 3.5K miles and the noise came right back. So I'm guessing the oil sheared down in that time enough to cause this (I can't prove this, idk where to do a UOA in Europe). Going with this logic, I figure a slightly thicker oil may help, so I've been looking at Ravenol SVS, which is a 5W40 with API SP, ACEA A3/B4, BMW LL-01, MB 229.5 and Porche A40 all recommended with no approvals(??). Ravenol also promises this particular oil to be very good at cleaning, although they don't mention how this is achieved (esters?). This oil is also somehow identical to Ravenol HST, sans the NOACK value. While the higher viscosity sounds good, I'm worried if I'd be sacrificing cold performace, since Honda really seems to love 0W oils in general. I don't expect lower than 10F temps though, so I'm not sure if 0W or 5W really matters. I've also been looking at Ravenol VMP, a mighty impressive oil, however I don't need a Mid SAPS oil, since no DPF, so I'm not sure if it's worth it.
I know y'all love the M1 FS 0W40, so I'm willing to try it, though there have been mixed reports on this very issue.

Here's the stats for nerds:
Ravenol SSO: TBN: 10,5 - SA: 1,1 - Flashpoint: 236C - VI: 173 - NOACK: 7,7% - Pourpoint: -60C - MRV(-40C): 17.400 - KV40: 68,6 - KV100: 12,0 - HTHS: 3,57 - HTFS: 2,61 - VII: 4,89% - A_Harman index: 0,9022
Ravenol SVS: TBN: 12,0 - SA: 1,19 - Flashpoint: 240C - VI: 173 - NOACK: 8,7% - Pourpoint: -42C - MRV(-35C): 25.000 - KV40: 78,2 - KV100: 13,3 - HTHS: 3,91 - HTFS: 2,86 - VII: 4,95% - A_Harman index: 0,9010
Ravenol VMP: TBN: 8,8 - SA: 0,7 - Flashpoint: 238C - VI: 179 - NOACK: 6,4% - Pourpoint: -60C - MRV(-35C): 12.000 - KV40: 66,3 - KV100: 11,9 - HTHS: 3,7 - HTFS: 2,89 - VII: 3,62% - A_Harman index: 0,9277

 

[Kira]

M1 FS 0W-40 (the stuff I buy in Walmart) in a diesel engine?

Zero experience with Ravenol.

 

[ExpandW]

M1 FS 0W-40 (the stuff I buy in Walmart) in a diesel engine?

Zero experience with Ravenol.

Yeah, the M1 FS is ACEA A3/B4 as per the PDS, so it should be fine in a diesel. Unless I'm wrong?

 

[Kira]

I thought the ACEA "A" dealt with one parameter like temperature range, in this case, a 3, and category "B" dealt with dirt holding capacity.
Also, I think a "C" category would be there for diesel applications.

The numbers have reached 7 and 8 in some categories.

I never saw a diesel oil which didn't have the word "DIESEL" printed all over it. I've never poured a drop of the stuff.
Diesel oils can be run in gas/petrol engines but gas/petrol oils can't be run in diesel engines, IIRC.

 

[Cujet]

I'd find the most robust 5W-40 diesel oil and use that. While I don't know that engine, there are plenty of examples of failed modern diesel engines using ultra low viscosity oils. Ram comes to mind.

 

[kschachn]

I'd find the most robust 5W-40 diesel oil and use that. While I don't know that engine, there are plenty of examples of failed modern diesel engines using ultra low viscosity oils. Ram comes to mind.

Exactly.

 

[ExpandW]

I thought the ACEA "A" dealt with one parameter like temperature range, in this case, a 3, and category "B" dealt with dirt holding capacity.
Also, I think a "C" category would be there for diesel applications.

The numbers have reached 7 and 8 in some categories.

I never saw a diesel oil which didn't have the word "DIESEL" printed all over it. I've never poured a drop of the stuff.
Diesel oils can be run in gas/petrol engines but gas/petrol oils can't be run in diesel engines, IIRC.

Well, from looking at the ACEA specs here: https://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php I gather that A is for gasoline engines and B is for diesel engines. The C category is simply for diesel engines that have a DPF filter, hence the lower SAPS. The 7 and 8 numbers are for E category oils, I'm not interested in those.
The M1 FS also has API CF approval, which is strictly for diesels, as seen here https://www.oilspecifications.org/api_eolcs.php. But it's an obsolete spec, why do they even bother putting that on there is beyond me.

 

[ExpandW]

I'd find the most robust 5W-40 diesel oil and use that. While I don't know that engine, there are plenty of examples of failed modern diesel engines using ultra low viscosity oils. Ram comes to mind.

Could you elaborate on "robust"? What should I be looking for in this instance?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Curious as to what Honda recommends as they don't sell light passenger diesels in the US.

How many km's on this engine?

Chain noise could be solved with the replacement of some hardware rather than struggling trying to "fix it" via choice of oil.

Of your choices you could flip a coin. I would think any 5w40 (A3/B4) would be fine.

 

[Kira]

Good you checked...It's been a while.
My exposure to this stuff was a while back from turbos' need for higher temp oils.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I thought the ACEA "A" dealt with one parameter like temperature range, in this case, a 3, and category "B" dealt with dirt holding capacity.
Also, I think a "C" category would be there for diesel applications.

The numbers have reached 7 and 8 in some categories.

I never saw a diesel oil which didn't have the word "DIESEL" printed all over it. I've never poured a drop of the stuff.
Diesel oils can be run in gas/petrol engines but gas/petrol oils can't be run in diesel engines, IIRC.

A = Gas
B = Diesel, Light -Duty
C = Emissions system friendly (Reduced SAPS).
E = Heavy Duty Diesel.

The numbers pertain different performance metrics and characteristics (ex, HTHS, LSPI, etc).

 

[ExpandW]

Curious as to what Honda recommends as they don't sell light passenger diesels in the US.

How many km's on this engine?

Chain noise could be solved with the replacement of some hardware rather than struggling trying to "fix it" via choice of oil.

Of your choices you could flip a coin. I would think any 5w40 (A3/B4) would be fine.

I understand this would be a bandaid fix at best, but replacing the chains is comparable in cost to getting another engine altogether. I should note this engine actually gets great mpg and has decent power, so it can't be that worn out. But I don't actually know how many miles this engine has, cause the shop didn't bother to tell me when they replaced the last one that spun a bearing at apparently 300k miles, but rolling back odos here is extremely prevalent, so who knows.
I'll attach a picture of the owner's manual regarding this. The coin flip is a good idea lol.

 

[Eddie]

Make sure you get an oil with an A6a rating. The A6 has roller chain protection. ED

 

[UG_Passat]

No dpf on the N22A1 means you don't need to worry much about needing a reduced SAPS engine.

If you want to stick to 0w30, and have the HTHS of 3.5 MPa minimum, look for a VW504/507 oil that is in the 0w30 grade.

 

[ExpandW]

Make sure you get an oil with an A6a rating. The A6 has roller chain protection. ED

I suppose you mean the ILSAC GF-6A?
The SVS and M1 FS oil are supposedly API SP though, doesn't that also have the timing chain wear test?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I suppose you mean the ILSAC GF-6A?
The SVS and M1 FS oil are supposedly API SP though, doesn't that also have the timing chain wear test?

It has the TGDI test required under SP. However all of the OE approvals have their own TGDI tests

 

[Cujet]

Could you elaborate on "robust"? What should I be looking for in this instance?

Mobil 1, Delvac 1 is a good choice. By that I mean an oil with a good additive package, that is very shear resistant and has superb deposit control. The idea that we can use a 0W-xx oil in diesel engines has been proven to be problematic in "some" engines. It should come as no surprise that wear rates are lower with adequate viscosity. Diesel engines have very specific viscosity requirements, due to component loading and the associated high pressures, honed to perfection over 125 years of operation.

 

[edyvw]

Any BMW specification (except LL-98) will have timing chain test that is better suited for yout engine than API SP. Test engine on BMW specifications is N20, turbo 4cyl.
Mobil1 0W40 will do it. IMO, important part is Zinc level and oils mentioned are usually 900-1100ppm.

 

[Tikka]

For this application would something like an E7 or E9 really be such a bad idea?

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

For this application would something like an E7 or E9 really be such a bad idea?

Different operating environment. Just buy M1 0w40 or any 5w40 and call it a day. You're not going to fix anything with oil. You're just going to mask it.