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Different specs for different markets #4775536
06/02/18 03:05 PM
06/02/18 03:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,589
PA
d00df00d Online content OP
d00df00d  Online Content OP

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,589
PA
Had a really interesting conversation with an engineer at... a big lube company. Part of the conversation was about when the same engine specs different oils in different markets. Most people assume that means dishonesty or shenanigans by the manufacturer, usually related to regulation. The engineer's answer bore no relationship to that thinking. He mentioned two factors, saying that one or the other (or some combination) account for most cases.

One point is that "the same engine" often has subtle differences from one market to the next. Occasionally, those differences can affect which oil spec is the best.

But the first and foremost thing to suspect, he said, is that differences in oil specs are related to the different fuel standards in different markets. The example he gave is one we're familiar with: a lot of BMWs that call for LL-01 in the US can use either LL-01 or LL-04 in Europe -- but those cars shouldn't use LL-04 here in the US with US fuels. He said that this kind of difference is actually quite common. He kept coming back to this point and underscoring its importance. I got the impression that it's a really big deal.

FWIW. Maybe some of our experts here can comment further.


2008 BMW M3 Sedan 6MT
Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775542
06/02/18 03:23 PM
06/02/18 03:23 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,866
Crawfordville FL
SilverFusion2010 Offline
SilverFusion2010  Offline

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,866
Crawfordville FL
That mostly has to do with SAPS content. EU also mandates long drain intervals, which the higher viscosity oils traditionally do better.


2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 181 miles M1 HM 10w-30
Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775547
06/02/18 03:25 PM
06/02/18 03:25 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
FermeLaPorte Offline
FermeLaPorte  Offline

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 542
Texas (south)
Marketing. It's all the same


Always Mobil 1
2014 1.6L Nissan Versa Sedan, 5 spd, 5k OCI.
2011 3.5L Chevrolet Impala, Automatic, 5k OCI.
Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775563
06/02/18 03:52 PM
06/02/18 03:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,788
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Trav Offline
Trav  Offline

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 21,788
MA, Mittelfranken.de
With the sulfur limit lowered in the USA to tier 3 limits low SAPS is no longer an issue. VW 502 has now been replaced entirely with 504 in many dealerships.
LL-01 is obsolete as high SAPS oil is no longer needed, LL-04 supersedes even in the US now.


ASE L1, Master. Deutsch Meisterbrief.
Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775584
06/02/18 04:28 PM
06/02/18 04:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 633
TN
TTK Offline
TTK  Offline

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 633
TN
"One point is that "the same engine" often has subtle differences from one market to the next. Occasionally, those differences can affect which oil spec is the best."

Well, they may have different emissions equipment in different markets, but an engine assembly line does not know what country it will end up in. So, what would be an example of a "subtle difference"? My Subaru Fb25 specs 0w-20, or 5w-30, or 5w-40 in UK. Only 0w-20 in USA.


2010 Volvo V70-3.2
Current Fill:Mobil 1 AP 5w-30
2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
2001 Chevrolet Prism:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30

Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775585
06/02/18 04:30 PM
06/02/18 04:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,468
California
Vuflanovsky Offline
Vuflanovsky  Offline

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,468
California
My first thought when I see differences isn't automatically CAFE but how the engines might differ and the quality of the gas. If the gas has a relatively high sulphur content ( rarer these days ) or there is enough of a difference in the engine components that it necessitates a higher viscosity, it'll still relate to CAFE on here even if it doesn't.

DI vehicles aren't imported into some countries because of the quality of the gas. That one example should automatically tell you that there's a rationale other than CAFE that's potentially involved with oil specs. It's not always apples to apples.

Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: Vuflanovsky] #4775589
06/02/18 04:34 PM
06/02/18 04:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 633
TN
TTK Offline
TTK  Offline

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 633
TN
Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
My first thought when I see differences isn't automatically CAFE but how the engines might differ and the quality of the gas. If the gas has a relatively high sulphur content ( rarer these days ) or there is enough of a difference in the engine components that it necessitates a higher viscosity, it'll still relate to CAFE on here even if it doesn't.

DI vehicles aren't imported into some countries because of the quality of the gas. That one example should automatically tell you that there's a rationale other than CAFE that's potentially involved with oil specs. It's not always apples to apples.


We don't even know if there are any engine differences, other than possible emissions.


2010 Volvo V70-3.2
Current Fill:Mobil 1 AP 5w-30
2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
2001 Chevrolet Prism:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30

Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775590
06/02/18 04:35 PM
06/02/18 04:35 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,422
WA (USA)
Y_K Offline
Y_K  Offline

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,422
WA (USA)
What is he stupid to tell you the truth(s)? He is yet another mortgage slave

Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: Trav] #4775611
06/02/18 04:56 PM
06/02/18 04:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,841
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
Global Moderator
JHZR2  Offline
Global Moderator

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,841
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Trav
With the sulfur limit lowered in the USA to tier 3 limits low SAPS is no longer an issue. VW 502 has now been replaced entirely with 504 in many dealerships.
LL-01 is obsolete as high SAPS oil is no longer needed, LL-04 supersedes even in the US now.


I agree with this logic. I plan to run LL-04 5w-30 oils in my N55 in the future for lowest NOACK.

Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775736
06/02/18 07:46 PM
06/02/18 07:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,996
United States of America
mjoekingz28 Offline
mjoekingz28  Offline

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,996
United States of America
Driving styles, length of commute, oil chemistry differences, differing speed limits and sustained high speeds, thats all I got.

0/5w-40 when in Europe
5w-20/30 Stateside

I like 10w-30 in trucks and 5w-30 in cars though. But really it is the owner's manual's decision isn't it?







Where is Pajero and all his 50wt in Kuwait? Aussies and the 60w. I put strait 60w into a newer 1200 Evo and an older 80"Evo. Had a nice glug sound when shaking the bottle.

Last edited by mjoekingz28; 06/02/18 07:50 PM. Reason: Extra commentary
Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775747
06/02/18 08:00 PM
06/02/18 08:00 PM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,176
New Zealand
Silk Offline
Silk  Offline

Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,176
New Zealand
I'm waiting for the Volvo to blow apart with the 15W-60, it's just a matter of time.

We get vehicles from all over the world in NZ, and we put what we like in them. The only ones that were a real issue were the early Mitsubishi GDI engines. They weren't made for our bad fuel, and were always run on cheaper low octane fuels...because that's what you put in a Galant, all 4G64 engines are 4G64 engines regardless of this GDI stuff.


1987 BMW R65 - Aegis SAE30
2005 Nissan Expert - 5W-40 Castrol Magnatec diesel.
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.
Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775811
06/02/18 09:00 PM
06/02/18 09:00 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,027
New Braunfels
Bryanccfshr Online content
Bryanccfshr  Online Content

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 6,027
New Braunfels
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.

Last edited by Bryanccfshr; 06/02/18 09:02 PM.

2018 Trd Pro 4Runner
2018 Tacoma off-road

Dealer 0w20 to M1 0w40 FS -it depends
Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: Bryanccfshr] #4775843
06/02/18 09:32 PM
06/02/18 09:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,939
NJ
Leo99 Offline
Leo99  Offline

Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 3,939
NJ
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.


It's your vehicle and your money. Let us know how it works out for you.

Last edited by Leo99; 06/02/18 09:33 PM.

Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles (RIP)
2004 Corolla 125,000 miles
2004 Rav4 370,000 miles
2015 Camry 70,000 miles
Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: Bryanccfshr] #4775857
06/02/18 10:06 PM
06/02/18 10:06 PM
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,216
WI.
dblshock Offline
dblshock  Offline

Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 3,216
WI.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.



My T4R runs awesome on 0/40, thinking a 5/40 upgrade in the warm weather...the HQ drivetrain deserves appropriate fluids.


16 Civic Coupe Touring 38k
640:1 TCW-3 E091
Citgo 10/30 synthetic XG7317
Firehawk Indy 500

06 4Runner SR5 146k
640:1 TCW-3
Citgo 10/30 conv XG3614
Falken Wildpeak AT3W
Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d] #4775951
06/03/18 12:24 AM
06/03/18 12:24 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,004
'Stralia
Shannow Offline
Shannow  Offline

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 43,004
'Stralia
Different use in different markets ?

Who woulda guessed ?

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