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#4775536 - 06/02/18 03:05 PM Different specs for different markets
d00df00d Online   content


Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11321
Loc: PA
Had a really interesting conversation with an engineer at... a big lube company. Part of the conversation was about when the same engine specs different oils in different markets. Most people assume that means dishonesty or shenanigans by the manufacturer, usually related to regulation. The engineer's answer bore no relationship to that thinking. He mentioned two factors, saying that one or the other (or some combination) account for most cases.

One point is that "the same engine" often has subtle differences from one market to the next. Occasionally, those differences can affect which oil spec is the best.

But the first and foremost thing to suspect, he said, is that differences in oil specs are related to the different fuel standards in different markets. The example he gave is one we're familiar with: a lot of BMWs that call for LL-01 in the US can use either LL-01 or LL-04 in Europe -- but those cars shouldn't use LL-04 here in the US with US fuels. He said that this kind of difference is actually quite common. He kept coming back to this point and underscoring its importance. I got the impression that it's a really big deal.

FWIW. Maybe some of our experts here can comment further.
_________________________
2011 Mazda RX-8 R3
Mobil Super 5w-20

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#4775542 - 06/02/18 03:23 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
SilverFusion2010 Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Posts: 1695
Loc: Crawfordville FL
That mostly has to do with SAPS content. EU also mandates long drain intervals, which the higher viscosity oils traditionally do better.
_________________________
2010 Ford Fusion SE 3.0L V6, 178k miles M1 HM 10w-30

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#4775547 - 06/02/18 03:25 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
FermeLaPorte Offline


Registered: 07/25/17
Posts: 536
Loc: Texas (south)
Marketing. It's all the same
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Always Mobil 1
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#4775563 - 06/02/18 03:52 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
Trav Offline


Registered: 11/20/06
Posts: 19658
Loc: MA, Mittelfranken.de
With the sulfur limit lowered in the USA to tier 3 limits low SAPS is no longer an issue. VW 502 has now been replaced entirely with 504 in many dealerships.
LL-01 is obsolete as high SAPS oil is no longer needed, LL-04 supersedes even in the US now.
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#4775584 - 06/02/18 04:28 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
TTK Offline


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 570
Loc: TN
"One point is that "the same engine" often has subtle differences from one market to the next. Occasionally, those differences can affect which oil spec is the best."

Well, they may have different emissions equipment in different markets, but an engine assembly line does not know what country it will end up in. So, what would be an example of a "subtle difference"? My Subaru Fb25 specs 0w-20, or 5w-30, or 5w-40 in UK. Only 0w-20 in USA.
_________________________
2010 Volvo V70-3.2
Current Fill:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30
2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
2001 Chevrolet Prism:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30


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#4775585 - 06/02/18 04:30 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
Vuflanovsky Offline


Registered: 12/15/14
Posts: 1233
Loc: California
My first thought when I see differences isn't automatically CAFE but how the engines might differ and the quality of the gas. If the gas has a relatively high sulphur content ( rarer these days ) or there is enough of a difference in the engine components that it necessitates a higher viscosity, it'll still relate to CAFE on here even if it doesn't.

DI vehicles aren't imported into some countries because of the quality of the gas. That one example should automatically tell you that there's a rationale other than CAFE that's potentially involved with oil specs. It's not always apples to apples.

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#4775589 - 06/02/18 04:34 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: Vuflanovsky]
TTK Offline


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 570
Loc: TN
Originally Posted By: Vuflanovsky
My first thought when I see differences isn't automatically CAFE but how the engines might differ and the quality of the gas. If the gas has a relatively high sulphur content ( rarer these days ) or there is enough of a difference in the engine components that it necessitates a higher viscosity, it'll still relate to CAFE on here even if it doesn't.

DI vehicles aren't imported into some countries because of the quality of the gas. That one example should automatically tell you that there's a rationale other than CAFE that's potentially involved with oil specs. It's not always apples to apples.


We don't even know if there are any engine differences, other than possible emissions.
_________________________
2010 Volvo V70-3.2
Current Fill:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30
2018 Subaru Forester, 0w-20 Subaru oil
2001 Chevrolet Prism:Castrol Magnatec 5w-30


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#4775590 - 06/02/18 04:35 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
Y_K Offline


Registered: 05/29/09
Posts: 2211
Loc: WA (USA)
What is he stupid to tell you the truth(s)? He is yet another mortgage slave

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#4775611 - 06/02/18 04:56 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: Trav]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41988
Loc: New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Trav
With the sulfur limit lowered in the USA to tier 3 limits low SAPS is no longer an issue. VW 502 has now been replaced entirely with 504 in many dealerships.
LL-01 is obsolete as high SAPS oil is no longer needed, LL-04 supersedes even in the US now.


I agree with this logic. I plan to run LL-04 5w-30 oils in my N55 in the future for lowest NOACK.

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#4775736 - 06/02/18 07:46 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
mjoekingz28 Offline


Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3996
Loc: United States of America
Driving styles, length of commute, oil chemistry differences, differing speed limits and sustained high speeds, thats all I got.

0/5w-40 when in Europe
5w-20/30 Stateside

I like 10w-30 in trucks and 5w-30 in cars though. But really it is the owner's manual's decision isn't it?







Where is Pajero and all his 50wt in Kuwait? Aussies and the 60w. I put strait 60w into a newer 1200 Evo and an older 80"Evo. Had a nice glug sound when shaking the bottle.


Edited by mjoekingz28 (06/02/18 07:50 PM)
Edit Reason: Extra commentary

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#4775747 - 06/02/18 08:00 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
Silk Offline


Registered: 07/26/03
Posts: 4687
Loc: New Zealand
I'm waiting for the Volvo to blow apart with the 15W-60, it's just a matter of time.

We get vehicles from all over the world in NZ, and we put what we like in them. The only ones that were a real issue were the early Mitsubishi GDI engines. They weren't made for our bad fuel, and were always run on cheaper low octane fuels...because that's what you put in a Galant, all 4G64 engines are 4G64 engines regardless of this GDI stuff.
_________________________
1987 BMW R65 - Penrite V Twin 20/50
2005 Nissan Expert - Gulf Western 10W-40
1996 Volvo T5 - Penrite HPR15 - 15W-60. Ryco syntec filter.

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#4775811 - 06/02/18 09:00 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
Bryanccfshr Online   content


Registered: 10/09/04
Posts: 5734
Loc: Texas, Mentone for work, Galve...
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.


Edited by Bryanccfshr (06/02/18 09:02 PM)
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2018 Trd Pro 4Runner M1 0w40
2018 Tacoma off-road Castrol 5w30 Magnatec

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#4775843 - 06/02/18 09:32 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: Bryanccfshr]
Leo99 Offline


Registered: 03/30/14
Posts: 3167
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.


It's your vehicle and your money. Let us know how it works out for you.


Edited by Leo99 (06/02/18 09:33 PM)
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Without data you're just another person with an opinion. W. E. Deming

2003 Corolla 250,000 miles
2004 Rav4 359,000 miles
2015 Camry 59,000 miles

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#4775857 - 06/02/18 10:06 PM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: Bryanccfshr]
dblshock Offline


Registered: 04/24/07
Posts: 2792
Loc: WI.
Originally Posted By: Bryanccfshr
All,I know is in the dust , sand and rough roads of west Texas , where I a, working, and the thermometer being 108 and me running miles of dirt and caliche washboard roads in 4wd, then miles of 75-80 mph interstate, I am replacing the factory fill in my Tacoma with something a bit more “substantial” than 0w20.



My T4R runs awesome on 0/40, thinking a 5/40 upgrade in the warm weather...the HQ drivetrain deserves appropriate fluids.
_________________________
16 Civic Coupe Touring 33k
640:1 TCW-3 E091
Edge 0/40/XG7317
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06 4Runner SR5 141k
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#4775951 - 06/03/18 12:24 AM Re: Different specs for different markets [Re: d00df00d]
Shannow Offline


Registered: 12/12/02
Posts: 40523
Loc: 'Stralia
Different use in different markets ?

Who woulda guessed ?

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