OEM Oil Spec: Same Engine, Different Market

M

Marrk

Joined
Sep 16, 2012
Messages
19
Location
Los Angeles
Gentlemen, does this make sense?

"but since there's an oil drainback/oil pickup/oil pan/engine design quirk that can (and has been proven to) harm your engine's crank and rod bearings due to oil pressure dropping under VERY common track conditions that we are 100% aware of internally, especiallywhen using the water-thin 0W-20 engine oil that we would prefer you use in this engine for fleet fuel economy reasons rather than the heavier weight and viscosity engine oil that the engineers intended for it . . . the significant differences between the factory owner’s manual sections from the U.S./Canada, UK, Japan and Australia regarding what types of engine oils are deemed appropriate and under what real world use conditions despite the FA24D being an identical design in all world markets."

The poster wants to argue that 1) the GR86/BRZ has the same engine in every market around the world, but 2) the factory recommends a lighter oil (0W-20) in USDM for fuel economy reasons, and 3) he thinks he knows what the engineers intended.

To simplify, let me phrase the question this way: Why would an OEM recommend different oil specs in different markets for the same engine?

One more question: Doesn't the poster make the usual error of thinking that a heavier weight oil will automatically provide better lubrication just because it's heavier?

Thanks.
 
Heavier weight oil does protect better. what does the oil do? Oil keeps the parts separated and a thicker oil film is thicker which keeps the parts separated. Of course there is much more than the oils thickness itself. In the USA it is CAFE standards driving the choice of viscosity in Europe I would guess it is Carbon credits .
 
In Europe CO2 emissions are part of the yearly taxes on a car. Well, if not all then at least some countries. Higher CO2 emmissions means the car will be more expensive over the years.
 
Marrk said:
Gentlemen, does this make sense?

"but since there's an oil drainback/oil pickup/oil pan/engine design quirk that can (and has been proven to) harm your engine's crank and rod bearings due to oil pressure dropping under VERY common track conditions that we are 100% aware of internally, especiallywhen using the water-thin 0W-20 engine oil that we would prefer you use in this engine for fleet fuel economy reasons rather than the heavier weight and viscosity engine oil that the engineers intended for it . . . the significant differences between the factory owner’s manual sections from the U.S./Canada, UK, Japan and Australia regarding what types of engine oils are deemed appropriate and under what real world use conditions despite the FA24D being an identical design in all world markets."

The poster wants to argue that 1) the GR86/BRZ has the same engine in every market around the world, but 2) the factory recommends a lighter oil (0W-20) in USDM for fuel economy reasons, and 3) he thinks he knows what the engineers intended.

To simplify, let me phrase the question this way: Why would an OEM recommend different oil specs in different markets for the same engine?

One more question: Doesn't the poster make the usual error of thinking that a heavier weight oil will automatically provide better lubrication just because it's heavier?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Heavier weight oil question ill leave to the experts on the board.

I believe the manual is tailor made to account for different operating conditions. 86 and other tmc models have different visc weights for diff operating conditions. For instance in hotter climates the manual will recommend a variety of oil weights depending on temperature, and in recent days even 20 weights are being recommended in those regions. In addition these manuals spell out what temp range the oil you can use can be run upto. Very detailed manuals unlike the nadm counterparts

In the nadm manuals, there is verbiage to indicate that under select operating conditions heavier weight oil may be used, but the only one they spell out for you, and that too for a single oil change is a heavier winter weight, keeping the operating temp weight the same. For example if the car is specd for 0w20, you can for one change go up to a 5w20, but must return to the 0w20 on the next oc. They do not spell out what range the other options available to be used in the motor. In older toyota models, this was not the case, and they included temp range charts with the specific oils etc.
 
proveitwithdata said:
In the nadm manuals, there is verbiage to indicate that under select operating conditions heavier weight oil may be used, but the only one they recommend for a single oil change is a heavier winter weigh, keeping the operating temp weight the same. For example if the car is specd for 0w20, you can for one change go up to a 5w20, but must return to the 0w20 on the next oc. They do not spell out what range the other options available to be used in the motor. In older toyota models, this was not the case, and they included temp range charts with the specific oils etc.
Click to expand...
They are required to do this to comply with a regulatory requirement. It is nothing technical.
 
Marrk said:
Gentlemen, does this make sense?

"but since there's an oil drainback/oil pickup/oil pan/engine design quirk that can (and has been proven to) harm your engine's crank and rod bearings due to oil pressure dropping under VERY common track conditions that we are 100% aware of internally, especiallywhen using the water-thin 0W-20 engine oil that we would prefer you use in this engine for fleet fuel economy reasons rather than the heavier weight and viscosity engine oil that the engineers intended for it . . . the significant differences between the factory owner’s manual sections from the U.S./Canada, UK, Japan and Australia regarding what types of engine oils are deemed appropriate and under what real world use conditions despite the FA24D being an identical design in all world markets."

The poster wants to argue that 1) the GR86/BRZ has the same engine in every market around the world, but 2) the factory recommends a lighter oil (0W-20) in USDM for fuel economy reasons, and 3) he thinks he knows what the engineers intended.

To simplify, let me phrase the question this way: Why would an OEM recommend different oil specs in different markets for the same engine?

One more question: Doesn't the poster make the usual error of thinking that a heavier weight oil will automatically provide better lubrication just because it's heavier?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
IMO

When only comparing viscosity generally speaking there is more headroom under extreme operating conidiations (ex, Track use). However, the cooling system is just as important and if oil temps are kept at optimum for the conditions then the heavier weight provides no added benefit and just saps hp.

Emissions, fuel quality, cost, and operating conditions, all play a role in the recommended weight for a particular region. IOW if Gr2 10w40 is significantly cheaper than an advanced 20 grade, the 10w40 may be recommended/allowed.

Edited: Clarity
 
Last edited:
BMWTurboDzl said:
Emissions, fuel quality, cost, and operating conditions, all play a role in the recommended weight for a particular region. IOW if Gr2 10w40 is significantly cheaper than an advanced 20 grade, the 10w40 will be recommended.
Click to expand...
For which markets? That is prohibited in the US, Canada, Europe and the UK.
 
My 2L turbo Gen Coupe came out with the 5w20 in it. They quickly realized this is no good in places like Saudi Arabia so they changed the oil spec to any weight up to 10w60 depending on location.
 
Marrk said:
Gentlemen, does this make sense?

"but since there's an oil drainback/oil pickup/oil pan/engine design quirk that can (and has been proven to) harm your engine's crank and rod bearings due to oil pressure dropping under VERY common track conditions that we are 100% aware of internally, especiallywhen using the water-thin 0W-20 engine oil that we would prefer you use in this engine for fleet fuel economy reasons rather than the heavier weight and viscosity engine oil that the engineers intended for it . . . the significant differences between the factory owner’s manual sections from the U.S./Canada, UK, Japan and Australia regarding what types of engine oils are deemed appropriate and under what real world use conditions despite the FA24D being an identical design in all world markets."

The poster wants to argue that 1) the GR86/BRZ has the same engine in every market around the world, but 2) the factory recommends a lighter oil (0W-20) in USDM for fuel economy reasons, and 3) he thinks he knows what the engineers intended.

To simplify, let me phrase the question this way: Why would an OEM recommend different oil specs in different markets for the same engine?

One more question: Doesn't the poster make the usual error of thinking that a heavier weight oil will automatically provide better lubrication just because it's heavier?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
In the US, manufacturers have an incentive to use thinner oil because. they get CAFE credits. It is all about fleet average consumption. If their fleet is out of requirements, they have issues, and using thinner oils helps them.
If I owned GR86/BRZ I would not touch with 10 foot pole anything lighter than 5W40.
 
Marrk said:
Gentlemen, does this make sense?

"but since there's an oil drainback/oil pickup/oil pan/engine design quirk that can (and has been proven to) harm your engine's crank and rod bearings due to oil pressure dropping under VERY common track conditions that we are 100% aware of internally, especiallywhen using the water-thin 0W-20 engine oil that we would prefer you use in this engine for fleet fuel economy reasons rather than the heavier weight and viscosity engine oil that the engineers intended for it . . . the significant differences between the factory owner’s manual sections from the U.S./Canada, UK, Japan and Australia regarding what types of engine oils are deemed appropriate and under what real world use conditions despite the FA24D being an identical design in all world markets."

The poster wants to argue that 1) the GR86/BRZ has the same engine in every market around the world, but 2) the factory recommends a lighter oil (0W-20) in USDM for fuel economy reasons, and 3) he thinks he knows what the engineers intended.

To simplify, let me phrase the question this way: Why would an OEM recommend different oil specs in different markets for the same engine?

One more question: Doesn't the poster make the usual error of thinking that a heavier weight oil will automatically provide better lubrication just because it's heavier?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Also you should be asking,

1) what operating conditions would the 86 be running in?
2) what is anticipated usable life of that vehicle?
3) in that usable life what is the difference in wear amount to?
4) Will the engine wear out sooner before the rest of the vehicle is using the 0w20 vs 0w40?
5) what issues may arise from using the thicker oil if any? Are their any components that are sensitive to the thicker oil?

Being a gr86 though, i assume the oil pickup sucking in rtv is the most important concern?
 
Marrk said:
Gentlemen, does this make sense?

"but since there's an oil drainback/oil pickup/oil pan/engine design quirk that can (and has been proven to) harm your engine's crank and rod bearings due to oil pressure dropping under VERY common track conditions that we are 100% aware of internally, especiallywhen using the water-thin 0W-20 engine oil that we would prefer you use in this engine for fleet fuel economy reasons rather than the heavier weight and viscosity engine oil that the engineers intended for it . . . the significant differences between the factory owner’s manual sections from the U.S./Canada, UK, Japan and Australia regarding what types of engine oils are deemed appropriate and under what real world use conditions despite the FA24D being an identical design in all world markets."

The poster wants to argue that 1) the GR86/BRZ has the same engine in every market around the world, but 2) the factory recommends a lighter oil (0W-20) in USDM for fuel economy reasons, and 3) he thinks he knows what the engineers intended.
Click to expand...
Makes perfect sense and lots of manufacturers do the exact same thing.
Marrk said:
To simplify, let me phrase the question this way: Why would an OEM recommend different oil specs in different markets for the same engine?
Click to expand...
For US market, its one word: CAFE (well its four actually, but 1 acronym).
Marrk said:
One more question: Doesn't the poster make the usual error of thinking that a heavier weight oil will automatically provide better lubrication just because it's heavier?

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Not an error.
 
proveitwithdata said:
Also you should be asking,

1) what operating conditions would the 86 be running in?
2) what is anticipated usable life of that vehicle?
3) in that usable life what is the difference in wear amount to?
4) Will the engine wear out sooner before the rest of the vehicle is using the 0w20 vs 0w40?
5) what issues may arise from using the thicker oil if any? Are their any components that are sensitive to the thicker oil?

Being a gr86 though, i assume the oil pickup sucking in rtv is the most important concern?
Click to expand...
That and oil pressure under high G loads. Actually, oil pressure is a bigger issue.
 
Not only is this delcious meme 100% BITOG compliant and copyright safe, I uploaded it to my gallery so I can enjoy it again and again saving space on the NORAD...er...BITOG servers! Wunderbar!

8cs71c.jpg

8cs71c.jpg

 
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