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VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas #4520566
09/19/17 05:32 PM
09/19/17 05:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,037
The Midwest
skyactiv Offline OP
skyactiv  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 5,037
The Midwest
I'm not at all interested in the vehicle, just interested in seeing if VW switched to a 504 oil for a gas engine in North America yet.
VW is apparently recommending using a VW 504 oil for the V6 model.


Wife: 15' Audi A4 quattro 6 speed manual
Me: 13' VW GTI 3 door 6 speed manual
Wanted: 2019 Ford Ranger
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv] #4520729
09/19/17 08:19 PM
09/19/17 08:19 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,301
New Jersey
JHZR2 Offline
JHZR2  Offline
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 42,301
New Jersey
Believe the USA has gone to ULSG, and if so, this is a reasonable choice.

Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: JHZR2] #4520847
09/20/17 12:07 AM
09/20/17 12:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,564
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,564
Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Believe the USA has gone to ULSG, and if so, this is a reasonable choice.

Nope, the U.S. did not go to ULSG. EPA just recommended blenders to move to ULSG. Under current leadership at EPA< we can only increase sulfur levels.
And as for VW, I am not sure they know anymore where is their head and where is tail. The offered in Atlas first generation FSI engine, and recommend Low-SAPS oil. Amazing!

Last edited by edyvw; 09/20/17 12:08 AM.

15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 0W20 EP+ 2qt of M1 0W40 + FRAM Ultra).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv] #4520862
09/20/17 12:43 AM
09/20/17 12:43 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,546
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,546
San Antonio, TX
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?

Last edited by Nyogtha; 09/20/17 12:45 AM.

"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv] #4520957
09/20/17 06:07 AM
09/20/17 06:07 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,625
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,625
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
VW is apparently recommending using a VW 504 oil for the V6 model.

VW has been listing the 504.00 spec in the US owner manuals for years now, alongside 502.00. Are you saying this new Atlas lists 504.00 only?


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv] #4520960
09/20/17 06:12 AM
09/20/17 06:12 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 4
no.america
gtimk4 Offline
gtimk4  Offline
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 4
no.america
Both of my MK7 Golf and GTI call for 502.00 and I have been using Mobil 1 0W40.
I will stay with this until I hear something official from VW as to the 504.00
oil.

Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv] #4521054
09/20/17 08:18 AM
09/20/17 08:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,625
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,625
Great Lakes
FYI, this is from the owner's manual of a 2014 Jetta...



'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: Quattro Pete] #4521334
09/20/17 12:56 PM
09/20/17 12:56 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 43
South Carolina, USA
motech Offline
motech  Offline
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 43
South Carolina, USA
The 2017 Tiguan manual is the same: 502, 503, 504. Personally, I'm sticking with Castrol 0w-40.


2017 VW Tiguan Sport 2.0T Mobil 1 0w-40
2015 Audi Q5 2.0T Castrol 0w-40
Mann Filters
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: Nyogtha] #4521797
09/20/17 11:13 PM
09/20/17 11:13 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,564
Colorado Springs
edyvw Offline
edyvw  Offline
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,564
Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?

And you are going to bet $6000 engine on the fact that your gas station MIGHT have ULSG?
To tell you immediately that average will be achieved by calculating CA gasoline which is anyway ULSG.
As for increasing sulfur, I was being sarcastic, since this EPA might move and allow lead again.

Last edited by edyvw; 09/20/17 11:15 PM.

15' Toyota Sienna AWD (Mobil1 0W20 EP+ 2qt of M1 0W40 + FRAM Ultra).
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv] #4522022
09/21/17 08:06 AM
09/21/17 08:06 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,100
SoCal
UG_Passat Offline
UG_Passat  Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,100
SoCal
my 2016 manual also lists 504.00

On the Atlas, the "Think Blue" suggestions for better fuel economy also lists using a low-viscosity oil, like a 5w30 for improved for fuel economy.


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: UG_Passat] #4522054
09/21/17 08:38 AM
09/21/17 08:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,625
Great Lakes
Quattro Pete Offline
Quattro Pete  Offline
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 36,625
Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
my 2016 manual also lists 504.00


Does "also" mean "in addition to 502.00"? Or are you saying 504.00 is the only spec it lists?


'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (PUP 0W-40 SRT)
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv] #4522092
09/21/17 09:24 AM
09/21/17 09:24 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 132
Rochelle Park, NJ
nolesfan Offline
nolesfan  Offline
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 132
Rochelle Park, NJ
I can't answer the above questions, but I will say the manual for my 2013 GLI lists 502 and 504 oils as acceptable choices (see QP's post above).
I've been running a 504 oil for the last year and a half or two, changed in 5k mile intervals. Running well so far. My car also has the ea888 gen 3 engine, so that may or may not make a difference.


2013.5 VW GLI
2013 Nissan Xterra Pro-4X
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: Nyogtha] #4522095
09/21/17 09:29 AM
09/21/17 09:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
1JZ_E46 Offline
1JZ_E46  Offline
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 1,585
Oregon
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?


You're understanding of the U.S. ULSG rules is wrong. It is currently not required for refiners to produce ULSG, and refiners have the ability to purchase "credits" to offset the fact that they aren't producing ULSG. This is a misunderstanding that has spread through BITOG for over a year now.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-04-28/pdf/2014-06954.pdf

From the executive summary:

"These early credit provisions, coupled
with the ability to carry over credits
from Tier 2 into Tier 3 (an additional
flexibility being finalized today that was
not part of the proposal), will allow for
early actions to reduce sulfur levels by
some refineries to be used to delay the
need for actions at other refineries until
2020."

I wouldn't count on any changes until at least 2019.

Last edited by 1JZ_E46; 09/21/17 09:40 AM.

2007 X5 4.8i: M1 HM 10W-30
2016 Countryman S: EDGE 0W-30
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: Quattro Pete] #4522250
09/21/17 12:30 PM
09/21/17 12:30 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,100
SoCal
UG_Passat Offline
UG_Passat  Offline
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,100
SoCal
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
my 2016 manual also lists 504.00


Does "also" mean "in addition to 502.00"? Or are you saying 504.00 is the only spec it lists?


In addition to 502.00


2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30
Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: 1JZ_E46] #4522272
09/21/17 01:14 PM
09/21/17 01:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,546
San Antonio, TX
Nyogtha Offline
Nyogtha  Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 2,546
San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?


You're understanding of the U.S. ULSG rules is wrong. It is currently not required for refiners to produce ULSG, and refiners have the ability to purchase "credits" to offset the fact that they aren't producing ULSG. This is a misunderstanding that has spread through BITOG for over a year now.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-04-28/pdf/2014-06954.pdf

From the executive summary:

"These early credit provisions, coupled
with the ability to carry over credits
from Tier 2 into Tier 3 (an additional
flexibility being finalized today that was
not part of the proposal), will allow for
early actions to reduce sulfur levels by
some refineries to be used to delay the
need for actions at other refineries until
2020."

I wouldn't count on any changes until at least 2019.


Your understanding of my understanding is wrong.

See where I state any batch will vary between 0 and 84 ppm sulfur, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm.

This is due to exchange of credits, smalll refiners exemptions, etc. much like the Tier 2 program, just as I posted.

Read the whole post plus all the material on the EPA web dite.

If a site overconttols (manufactures gasoline < 10 ppm S), it generates credits. There will be a lot of large refiners who overcontrol at their larger refineries and use credits they generate at their smaller refineries, during periods of maintenance such as turnarounds, and for sale. The converse is true of refiners who undercontrol. Per batch max spec is 80 ppm at the refinery gate, 84 ppm at terminals to allow for some minor cross-contamination during transit. These max per batch specs cannot be mofified by credits.

I worked in the industry and blended 1.5 million to 2 million gallons of gasoline a day when I was a blendineer. My wife still works in the industry at an executive level for a major refiner.


"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen
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