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#4520566 - 09/19/17 06:32 PM VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas
skyactiv Offline


Registered: 03/02/13
Posts: 4389
Loc: The Midwest
I'm not at all interested in the vehicle, just interested in seeing if VW switched to a 504 oil for a gas engine in North America yet.
VW is apparently recommending using a VW 504 oil for the V6 model.
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#4520729 - 09/19/17 09:19 PM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv]
JHZR2 Offline



Registered: 12/14/02
Posts: 41758
Loc: New Jersey
Believe the USA has gone to ULSG, and if so, this is a reasonable choice.

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#4520847 - 09/20/17 01:07 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: JHZR2]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 5027
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Believe the USA has gone to ULSG, and if so, this is a reasonable choice.

Nope, the U.S. did not go to ULSG. EPA just recommended blenders to move to ULSG. Under current leadership at EPA< we can only increase sulfur levels.
And as for VW, I am not sure they know anymore where is their head and where is tail. The offered in Atlas first generation FSI engine, and recommend Low-SAPS oil. Amazing!


Edited by edyvw (09/20/17 01:08 AM)
_________________________
13' BMW X5 35d (Mobil1 5W30 ESP+OEM filter)
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#4520862 - 09/20/17 01:43 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2319
Loc: San Antonio, TX
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?


Edited by Nyogtha (09/20/17 01:45 AM)
_________________________
"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen

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#4520957 - 09/20/17 07:07 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35834
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
VW is apparently recommending using a VW 504 oil for the V6 model.

VW has been listing the 504.00 spec in the US owner manuals for years now, alongside 502.00. Are you saying this new Atlas lists 504.00 only?
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
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#4520960 - 09/20/17 07:12 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv]
gtimk4 Offline


Registered: 11/27/10
Posts: 4
Loc: no.america
Both of my MK7 Golf and GTI call for 502.00 and I have been using Mobil 1 0W40.
I will stay with this until I hear something official from VW as to the 504.00
oil.

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#4521054 - 09/20/17 09:18 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35834
Loc: Great Lakes
FYI, this is from the owner's manual of a 2014 Jetta...

_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)

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#4521334 - 09/20/17 01:56 PM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: Quattro Pete]
motech Offline


Registered: 11/15/12
Posts: 38
Loc: South Carolina, USA
The 2017 Tiguan manual is the same: 502, 503, 504. Personally, I'm sticking with Castrol 0w-40.
_________________________
2017 VW Tiguan Sport 2.0T Mobil 1 0w-40
2015 Audi Q5 2.0T Castrol 0w-40
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#4521797 - 09/21/17 12:13 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: Nyogtha]
edyvw Offline


Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 5027
Loc: Colorado Springs
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?

And you are going to bet $6000 engine on the fact that your gas station MIGHT have ULSG?
To tell you immediately that average will be achieved by calculating CA gasoline which is anyway ULSG.
As for increasing sulfur, I was being sarcastic, since this EPA might move and allow lead again.


Edited by edyvw (09/21/17 12:15 AM)
_________________________
13' BMW X5 35d (Mobil1 5W30 ESP+OEM filter)
11' VW Tiguan 2.0T (Castrol 0W40+MANN filter)

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#4522022 - 09/21/17 09:06 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1959
Loc: NJ
my 2016 manual also lists 504.00

On the Atlas, the "Think Blue" suggestions for better fuel economy also lists using a low-viscosity oil, like a 5w30 for improved for fuel economy.
_________________________
2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30

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#4522054 - 09/21/17 09:38 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: UG_Passat]
Quattro Pete Offline


Registered: 10/30/02
Posts: 35834
Loc: Great Lakes
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
my 2016 manual also lists 504.00


Does "also" mean "in addition to 502.00"? Or are you saying 504.00 is the only spec it lists?
_________________________
'02 530i (Edge 0W-40)
'15 Q5 3.0T (Edge 5W-40)
'18 Charger SRT (FF)

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#4522092 - 09/21/17 10:24 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: skyactiv]
nolesfan Offline


Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 126
Loc: Rochelle Park, NJ
I can't answer the above questions, but I will say the manual for my 2013 GLI lists 502 and 504 oils as acceptable choices (see QP's post above).
I've been running a 504 oil for the last year and a half or two, changed in 5k mile intervals. Running well so far. My car also has the ea888 gen 3 engine, so that may or may not make a difference.
_________________________
2013.5 VW GLI
2013 Nissan Xterra Pro-4X

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#4522095 - 09/21/17 10:29 AM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: Nyogtha]
1JZ_E46 Offline


Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 1219
Loc: Oregon
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?


You're understanding of the U.S. ULSG rules is wrong. It is currently not required for refiners to produce ULSG, and refiners have the ability to purchase "credits" to offset the fact that they aren't producing ULSG. This is a misunderstanding that has spread through BITOG for over a year now.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-04-28/pdf/2014-06954.pdf

From the executive summary:

"These early credit provisions, coupled
with the ability to carry over credits
from Tier 2 into Tier 3 (an additional
flexibility being finalized today that was
not part of the proposal), will allow for
early actions to reduce sulfur levels by
some refineries to be used to delay the
need for actions at other refineries until
2020."

I wouldn't count on any changes until at least 2019.


Edited by 1JZ_E46 (09/21/17 10:40 AM)
_________________________
2007 BMW X5 4.8i, 105K: Castrol EDGE 0W-40, Mann
2012 Mini Cooper, 45K: Castrol EDGE 0W-30, Mann

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#4522250 - 09/21/17 01:30 PM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: Quattro Pete]
UG_Passat Offline


Registered: 05/27/08
Posts: 1959
Loc: NJ
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
my 2016 manual also lists 504.00


Does "also" mean "in addition to 502.00"? Or are you saying 504.00 is the only spec it lists?


In addition to 502.00
_________________________
2016 VW Tiguan|APR Stage 1|Neuspeed P-Flo|Osram CBI|Redline 5w30

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#4522272 - 09/21/17 02:14 PM Re: VW is specifying a 504 oil for the V6 Atlas [Re: 1JZ_E46]
Nyogtha Offline


Registered: 10/13/14
Posts: 2319
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Originally Posted By: 1JZ_E46
Originally Posted By: Nyogtha
What do you define as ULSG edyvw?

The US went to 10 ppm sulfur average in motor gasoline in 2017.

https://www.epa.gov/fuels-registration-r...gasoline-sulfur

The provisions for credit generation & trading, small refiners exemption, etc. remain virtually unchanged from Tier 2 regulations - but the average WAS reduced from 30 ppm S to 10 ppm S on January 1, 2017.

At the pump, this means any single batch can vary between 0 ppm S and 84 ppm S, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm S.

I've seen nothing in the media about changes to this rule, nor legislation nor rule promulgation that US motor gasoline sulfur can only increase now. Can you post some supporting links for your post content?


You're understanding of the U.S. ULSG rules is wrong. It is currently not required for refiners to produce ULSG, and refiners have the ability to purchase "credits" to offset the fact that they aren't producing ULSG. This is a misunderstanding that has spread through BITOG for over a year now.

https://www.epa.gov/gasoline-standards/gasoline-sulfur
https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-04-28/pdf/2014-06954.pdf

From the executive summary:

"These early credit provisions, coupled
with the ability to carry over credits
from Tier 2 into Tier 3 (an additional
flexibility being finalized today that was
not part of the proposal), will allow for
early actions to reduce sulfur levels by
some refineries to be used to delay the
need for actions at other refineries until
2020."

I wouldn't count on any changes until at least 2019.


Your understanding of my understanding is wrong.

See where I state any batch will vary between 0 and 84 ppm sulfur, but the nationwide average will be 10 ppm.

This is due to exchange of credits, smalll refiners exemptions, etc. much like the Tier 2 program, just as I posted.

Read the whole post plus all the material on the EPA web dite.

If a site overconttols (manufactures gasoline < 10 ppm S), it generates credits. There will be a lot of large refiners who overcontrol at their larger refineries and use credits they generate at their smaller refineries, during periods of maintenance such as turnarounds, and for sale. The converse is true of refiners who undercontrol. Per batch max spec is 80 ppm at the refinery gate, 84 ppm at terminals to allow for some minor cross-contamination during transit. These max per batch specs cannot be mofified by credits.

I worked in the industry and blended 1.5 million to 2 million gallons of gasoline a day when I was a blendineer. My wife still works in the industry at an executive level for a major refiner.
_________________________
"No matter how paranoid you are you're not paranoid enough. Tell the truth. Reach as many people as you can with it. That's your weapon." - Susanne Modeski, aka "Holly" to The Lone Gunmen

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