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Volkswagen permit the following approvals for my own DLBA code EA888 3G:
Volkswagen permit the following approvals for my own DLBA code EA888 3G:
MK7 Volkswagen GLI, change viscosity after tune?
- Thread starter John9721
- Start date
Not all 2.0 admits the three oil specs options….. maybe some diffrerences beetwen the engines?
I would run 504/507 and not think twice about it. Castrol edge K (LL) or valvoline XLIII can be found for $25-35 a jug.
Enlighten us how those engines work in environment where oil temperature might not get to operating level? Fairbanks, Alaska? What is their lifespan running oil that is xx times thicker than 40 grade? How does that works with “clearances,” or “piston rings?”
By the way, VW approvals are based on HTHS not “5W30.” Do piston rings distinguish between 5W30 ILSAC GF-6 and VW504.00/507.00. What if you run Pennzoil Platinum 5W30 with KV100 of 9.2, and let’s say Mobil1 ESP 5W30 with KV100 of 12.2. Does engine explode if one runs 5W40 with KV100 of 12.8 or you need 5W40 of 14cst and up?
Duh!
Yes, as mentioned a thousand times: Most if not all engines specced for
VW 508 00 (likewise VW 504 00 and 502 00) come with a different oil pump.
To be more specific, the oil pump itself remains the same, but its gear ratio
is elevated just to compensate for that thinner oil.
This is the case with EA888 3rd Gen 2.0 T engines. My own DLBA came with
this uprateted oil pump and you see this difference doesn't prevent it to use
VW 504 00 and 502 00 at all.
As edyvw told you above ANY 0W-20 will be even thicker in Alaska winters
at say -35°C or -40°C (-31°F/-40°F) than a 0W-30 during winter in temperate
regions. Modern engines exhibit some decent tolerance.
Other than that, no differences. Forget about 'clearences', way off the mark!
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What I Learned Today — Bearing Clearances vs. Oil Viscosities
Choosing your oil viscosity based on bearing clearances can be challenging. Luckily Jeff Smith adds some insight into the problem.
www.enginelabs.com
who says engine explode using a high viscosity oil??? Not me…..
maybe my english its not good enough?!
The viscosity is primary selected by design of internals engine, working temp and oil pressure….. if the oil never achieves the propper working temp, you can uses a less viscosity oil or short the OCI….
VW aprobals are not based “only” in HTHS, the oils rarely achieves the 150* of HTHS test, not even close in a standar use!
The piston rings designed to work with w20 oils has no problem to deal a w30 (maybe some w40)….
But cant deal correctly with a w60 for sure, that you mentioned early (the engine do not explode or any other ridiculous assumption), but for sure works in a higher internal temp, higher wear (especially in cold starts) and loose some power!!
(Studies confirm that 20cv aprox was missing beetwen w30 and w60 oils in some engines)
in a lot of Europe webs claims that 508-509 specs must includes zirconium in his oil additives (I cannot confirm this statement, nor deny it)
hope my english was ok (its not my language)
The oil reaches 150c, not in sump in regular use, but in certain spots, for sure! HTHS is determinant. I worked on development of oils that were specifically aimed at VW approvals. It is not just temperature, but testing methodology behind HTHS.What I Learned Today — Bearing Clearances vs. Oil Viscosities
Choosing your oil viscosity based on bearing clearances can be challenging. Luckily Jeff Smith adds some insight into the problem.
who says engine explode using a high viscosity oil??? Not me…..
maybe my english its not good enough?!
The viscosity is primary selected by design of internals engine, working temp and oil pressure….. if the oil never achieves the propper working temp, you can uses a less viscosity oil or short the OCI….
VW aprobals are not based “only” in HTHS, the oils rarely achieves the 150* of HTHS test, not even close in a standar use!
The piston rings designed to work with w20 oils has no problem to deal a w30 (maybe some w40)….
But cant deal correctly with a w60 for sure, that you mentioned early (the engine do not explode or any other ridiculous assumption), but for sure works in a higher internal temp, higher wear (especially in cold starts) and loose some power!!
(Studies confirm that 20cv aprox was missing beetwen w30 and w60 oils in some engines)
in a lot of Europe webs claims that 508-509 specs must includes zirconium in his oil additives (I cannot confirm this statement, nor deny it)
hope my english was ok (its not my language)
That being said, I pushed EA888 in both of my vehicles, beyond 140c in regular use. That means that that temperature around piston rings, some bearings is far exceeded that temperature that is measured at oil sump.
You don’t recommend oil to users and say, well if it is -40c, just use…. Average customer, all 99.99999% of them, will use whatever VW recommends. And what they gonna use in Fairbanks, or Novosibirsk? 0W10? They will do OCI that manufacturer recommends. Street oils are super tough. They are designed in mind that people will do short trips, not warm up engines, or, very important for this subject, slam on the gas pedal while oil is thick as Lucas oil “stabilizer.”
And yes, you can use 60 grade. There is no such thing as too thick. However, too thin is different story.
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?? They have their own service manuals. Part numbers are different. No specific technical recommendations?? What??
But it's not. Check the engine codes, compare part numbers of different components, they aren't the exact same engines.
I never made any of those claims. What I said was it's not unreasonable to believe different engines may have different lubrication requirements.
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Requirements is an open-ended word. Some engines may require an oil with a higher HT/HS to prevent excessive wear, but this in no way excludes the use of an oil with a higher HT/HS. Too low of a film thickness will damage an engine, but the other way around is not true.
And yes some may require higher oxidation resistance and other properties. But as long as you have an oil that meets those needs then again you can use a different grade as long as it is not too low.
In the case being discussed here no engine requires 508 00 oil. None.
Regardless of spec, in the tuning world it's best to run with what your tuner recommends based on subjective experience and platform
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It happened to friends of ours with a 2011 Pilot. Recall these were the VCM motors where the rings on the deactivated cylinders could coke up. Several dealerships denied coverage of the ring replacement under the extended warranty campaign because the service invoices showed repeated use of a viscosity other than the 5w20. I know because I assisted them and eventually one dealership got Honda to cover about half the cost.
Again, to be 100 percent clear, do I really think that the oil was the issue? Not at all. I think it is BS, what they faced. But, respectfully, it is naive to think that manufacturers do not look to be firm on following recommendations for service when they are faced with tens of millions of dollars in additional warranty costs and there is a way for them to knock down some of those costs.
And this is why I say that there is technical correctness, and that is different from practical common sense. As I have said before, if I have a car, truck, or other piece of equipment, and the manual is clear about the service recommendation, I follow it. I am not going to parse the words because what I want at the end of the proverbial day is to minimize my aggravation, and the way you do that is to follow the manual and keep receipts. This way if there is a problem I do t have to get into a debate - they just fix the machine. You and others counseling a different course are advocating something that is technically correct but practically unwise.
If anyone is doubting @930.engineering for some reason, here is the 508 info straight from vw/audi:
This is from their study guide for dealer techs, not marketing material. There are no changes in bearing clearances, they are already quite tight in the high performance versions.
This is from their study guide for dealer techs, not marketing material. There are no changes in bearing clearances, they are already quite tight in the high performance versions.
Yes you do need to compensate for low-viscosity oils.
For sure, but it's not a change that prevents people from using the old x30/x40 502 oils.
Yes of course, but just 9 % more flow (but sadly not more pressure since viscosity related)
compared to more than 30 % lower viscosity including HTHS. A very bad deal apparently.
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