That's a defective engine or soon to be one probably. Even for Subaru.
Early Oil Change on New VW EA888?
- Thread starter donnyj08
- Start date
Ah so your spectral analysis contacts lead you to believe this, all from a dipstick? Marvelous!
That has little to do with break-in and more to do with break down shortly.
Oh boy.
One more try…
Try a fun experiment at home.
Next time you change your own oil, from your well broken in, healthy engine, clean the drain pan, (preferably black plastic) and leave the drained oil overnight. When you spill it into your used oil container, observe the last 1/2” of oil in the pan. Shop lights are not good enough. Take it into direct sunlight. Look at all the nice metal that never made it into the filter. See the metallic slurry at the bottom as you stir it with your finger.
Break in oil is approx. 10x-50x or more than this. And bigger pieces.
Let us all know how it goes.
One more try…
Try a fun experiment at home.
Next time you change your own oil, from your well broken in, healthy engine, clean the drain pan, (preferably black plastic) and leave the drained oil overnight. When you spill it into your used oil container, observe the last 1/2” of oil in the pan. Shop lights are not good enough. Take it into direct sunlight. Look at all the nice metal that never made it into the filter. See the metallic slurry at the bottom as you stir it with your finger.
Break in oil is approx. 10x-50x or more than this. And bigger pieces.
Let us all know how it goes.
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So my "real-world" experience is discounted? It's been going well for me over the last 25 years to just do a normal (~5-7k mi) first OCI on a new vehicle with long service life/no drama.
Re-read what I said. Most engines have no issues with this. That doesn’t mean the oil is clean. I said nasty oil. The oil is nasty at break in. You can see it. A couple of people with limited experience here doubt this, so be it. Do it yourself and you will see.
To muddy the waters further:
I recall a manufacturer TSB that recommended against a quick initial oil change,( less than 1000km) because the abrasive particles in the oil helped break in, and prevented against glazing. I don’t recall who this was, but I remember reading it, in the mid 80s. Probably a motorcycle manufacturer. That was what I was working on then. Could have been Moto Morini now that I think about it. We were a dealer at the time.
Hopefully a dealership tech that does new car maintenance will chime with his/her experience and further the conversation.
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A dealership tech who changes oil does not care what it looks like unless there is obvious signs of neglect or contamination from other fluids. It does into a big storage funnel, and they are not looking at the bottom of any pan. They aren't paid to do that.
You are grasping at straws, really. We all know there is higher metal particulates in a first oil change but for the average consumer of vehicles that means, well zero. You are lucky if they get their oil changed regularly and with the right kind most of the time. These are the type who won't trust a dealership because they are all crooks but let Jiffy Lube change their oil. The engine can and most likely run past 100, 150, 200k regardless of the early change. There really is no proof it helps.
As for the TSB Honda used to claim that AFAIK.
I am not grasping at straws, you are. I said I saw metal in the oil, you said sure you did. And now you produce something more reasonable.
A dealership tech who is curious and careful will have his own drain pan and can check it, just like I did when I was one. I wasn’t the only one either.
Ah, proof. When did I say there was proof? I said there is no downside, the oil is nasty.
Do what you want, but your questioning what I said initially revealed your ignorance and lack of experience.
A dealership tech who is curious and careful will have his own drain pan and can check it, just like I did when I was one. I wasn’t the only one either.
Ah, proof. When did I say there was proof? I said there is no downside, the oil is nasty.
Do what you want, but your questioning what I said initially revealed your ignorance and lack of experience.
You said you could see it on a dipstick, sure you did.
This isn't nor will it be the last time this topic is brought. It's been thoroughly discussed before ad nauseum.
You are chalking up your own experience as the definitive answer on the topic and it is not. There is no ignorance just difference of opinion, which you are misrepresenting as ignorance because I or others don't agree with you.
I did see it on a dipstick. I have no reason to lie.
When did I say I my view was the definitive answer on the topic?
Please stop, you are digging yourself further into a hole.
No, you and the other guy revealed yourselves clearly. You have never seen this for yourself, so you quickly refute what I said, and still do. It shows that you don’t know. It’s ok.
When did I say I my view was the definitive answer on the topic?
Please stop, you are digging yourself further into a hole.
No, you and the other guy revealed yourselves clearly. You have never seen this for yourself, so you quickly refute what I said, and still do. It shows that you don’t know. It’s ok.
I use to do early OCs (at ~300 mls, ~800 mls and ~2500 mls, then every 6000 mls) on
every new car. I also use to use magnetic plugs on any engine and any transmission.
The outcome: I had never ever noticed any metallic particles in the drain pan.
If you have a completely different experience you might use a better oil filter hereafter.
Completely off-topic. Motorcycle vs passenger car. Perhaps no oil filter at all . . . .
.
Guys , you can see this in the pan of a normal oil change, well after break in, just less of it. I’m telling you to try it yourself.
This should not be new. It has nothing to do or little to do with filter quality.
Bikes with conjoined transmissions shed appreciably larger and more metal, obviously, but I am speaking of car engines for the purposes of this discussion.
The motorcycle TSB was introduced to illustrate what a manufacturer said long ago about break in oil. If you think that off topic, well…
You need direct sunlight, shop lights won’t work. The metal in the dipstick oil was seen in direct sunlight.
Again, this is not a new concept. Surprised this is foreign.
This should not be new. It has nothing to do or little to do with filter quality.
Bikes with conjoined transmissions shed appreciably larger and more metal, obviously, but I am speaking of car engines for the purposes of this discussion.
The motorcycle TSB was introduced to illustrate what a manufacturer said long ago about break in oil. If you think that off topic, well…
You need direct sunlight, shop lights won’t work. The metal in the dipstick oil was seen in direct sunlight.
Again, this is not a new concept. Surprised this is foreign.
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If you have the engine on Boost, then you have higher combustion chamber pressure which will cause more blow-by and higher crankcase pressure, which in-turn will increase the amount of vapor pulled into the PCV system. That would increase the valve deposits, not decrease them.
I’m surprised to see this thread still alive.
To give an update I purchased 6QT M1 0w20 ESP X2 at my local WM believe it or not. The local Advance Auto had Mann Filters and I ordered REIN Drain plugs online. The plugs just arrived today. I’ll likely do a Change this weekend. I believe my wife is up to 1200 or so miles on the Atlas. I’m sure it will be between 1500-2k miles before I get around to changing it out. That is if I don’t just decide to wait until 5K.
Car hasn’t used any measurable oil since we picked it up with 42 miles on it. I’d say it’s safe to assume the engine is mostly broke in. My wife drove 200 miles interstate today at 75-80 MPH and the my VW app shows it returned 26mpg. It’s currently running on 93 Octane Costco Fuel. Not bad…
As always I appreciate all the replies.
To give an update I purchased 6QT M1 0w20 ESP X2 at my local WM believe it or not. The local Advance Auto had Mann Filters and I ordered REIN Drain plugs online. The plugs just arrived today. I’ll likely do a Change this weekend. I believe my wife is up to 1200 or so miles on the Atlas. I’m sure it will be between 1500-2k miles before I get around to changing it out. That is if I don’t just decide to wait until 5K.
Car hasn’t used any measurable oil since we picked it up with 42 miles on it. I’d say it’s safe to assume the engine is mostly broke in. My wife drove 200 miles interstate today at 75-80 MPH and the my VW app shows it returned 26mpg. It’s currently running on 93 Octane Costco Fuel. Not bad…
As always I appreciate all the replies.
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A lot of VW mechanics claim they see less GTIs and Rs for carbon buildup by percentage compared to the rest of the fleet. It's probably safe to say they're driven harder than 2.0T SUV. Whether that's why or not, I don't know.
They certainly can require any sort of maintenance items' specifications be used to maintain warranty coverage including oil.
Our 2023 Venza Hybrid calls for 10,000 mile OCI's. Toyota will do the first 2 OCI's at 10K & 20K in the first 2 years.
I changed out the FF at 2700 miles and again(3600 miles later) at 6300 miles.
I will let the dealer change the oil & filter(3700 miles after) at 10,000 miles.
This may be over kill in todays engines but considering how often the gas engine turns on/off, I feel better doing what I have done.
I will go ~5000 miles from here on depending on how the car is driven. If we do more open hiwy driving, I'll go further(6K-7K miles).
I changed out the FF at 2700 miles and again(3600 miles later) at 6300 miles.
I will let the dealer change the oil & filter(3700 miles after) at 10,000 miles.
This may be over kill in todays engines but considering how often the gas engine turns on/off, I feel better doing what I have done.
I will go ~5000 miles from here on depending on how the car is driven. If we do more open hiwy driving, I'll go further(6K-7K miles).
Right, but they aren't supposed to tell you to use this specific oil. That's why it's always a specification to meet. It would be possible to only have one oil to meet that specification, but the idea is that if any oil can submit to meet a standard then there will be multiple options on the market.
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