Is there anything they require over there that we don't? Or something we have that they can't? Or is it just a selling point for people who think anything made in Europe is better quality?
What Exactly Makes An Oil "European Formula"
- Thread starter billt460
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It means it meets or exceeds ACEA requirements and European vehicle manufacturer requirements, sometimes they overlap with the API/ILSAC standards we use here.
The ACEA C sequences are low ash (>.8%) to protect particulate filters, API and ILSAC don't have any requirements like that, A5/B5 (and the upcoming A7/B7) sort of overlaps with API-RC/ILSAC 30 grade, generally American spec oils have went to using a more Dexos compliant additive package and are usually 1% ash or lower, where as other A sequence european oils will have ash above 1%. While America shifted towards fuel economy fairly early, Europeans kept using heavier oils with an HTHS viscosity above 3.5cP for a longer time. Usually the Euro formula oils here in the US are all full synthetic and meet European manufacturers specs intended for extended drain intervals, as a result people that like high quality thicker oils like using European formula A3/B4 or C3 oils because they're thicker and they carry very stringent European manufacturer approvals for extended drain intervals.
The ACEA C sequences are low ash (>.8%) to protect particulate filters, API and ILSAC don't have any requirements like that, A5/B5 (and the upcoming A7/B7) sort of overlaps with API-RC/ILSAC 30 grade, generally American spec oils have went to using a more Dexos compliant additive package and are usually 1% ash or lower, where as other A sequence european oils will have ash above 1%. While America shifted towards fuel economy fairly early, Europeans kept using heavier oils with an HTHS viscosity above 3.5cP for a longer time. Usually the Euro formula oils here in the US are all full synthetic and meet European manufacturers specs intended for extended drain intervals, as a result people that like high quality thicker oils like using European formula A3/B4 or C3 oils because they're thicker and they carry very stringent European manufacturer approvals for extended drain intervals.
I'll answer from a world vs Europe prospective as the above poster did a good job describing differences.
It's oil marketers doing it outside of Europe.
Some people think they should specify what is more common in the USA used in domestic, Japanese and Korean makes.
And some here think, VW now uses 0W20 in some new turbo models, why can't they simply allow just any 0W20.
But Europe has their own motor oil industry and has no reason to follow/rely copying what Toyota, GM.. does.
But if you look deeper, GM didn't have Dexos years ago, Ford didn't have their specs years ago and FCA or whatever they call themselves at the moment didn't either.
It's oil marketers doing it outside of Europe.
Some people think they should specify what is more common in the USA used in domestic, Japanese and Korean makes.
And some here think, VW now uses 0W20 in some new turbo models, why can't they simply allow just any 0W20.
But Europe has their own motor oil industry and has no reason to follow/rely copying what Toyota, GM.. does.
But if you look deeper, GM didn't have Dexos years ago, Ford didn't have their specs years ago and FCA or whatever they call themselves at the moment didn't either.
But some of the same Japanese engines specify a heavier grade outside of the USA/Canada.
Meanwhile in Japan, they have been using thinner viscosities before us.
Why does a Ford Focus in Australia spec 5W30 while the same engine in the USA model specs 5W20?
We think we are the center of the world in the USA while Europe has a higher population than us.
Not word for word, but I've seen a member comment on VW's being junk that they need special oil to stay together.
This is a topic of contention. To me, there is no right & wrong answer. Europe has their own auto makers, motor oil industry and driving styles
as do we in the USA.
Because the United States is the only country that has to deal with the stupid lunacy of CAFE. Going beyond that, Toyota specifies 0W-16 for their Camry's sold in U.S. market. The same vehicles with the exact same engines sold in Australia and other countries can use up to and including 15W-40.
Numerous reasons. Bottom line, oils labeled as “European “ have more stringent requirements, by far. Oils are made around those approvals and no ILSAC oil is close to requirements of MB, Porsche, BMW etc.
Really? Tell us how and why all those manufacturers use heavy ACEA oils elsewhere? It
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Take a look through the attached Afton Oil Specification handbook (sorry, this is 2014, it wouldn't let me upload the 2019 version, it's too large) to get an idea as to the testing protocols employed in the European certification process.
The details of Porsche A40 have already been posted on this board several times, but, this includes simulated lapping of the Nurburgring for example.
Historically, OEM approvals on this side of the pond, as well as the API ones, have been wholly insufficient to meet the standards imposed by European marques. This is primarily to do with extended drain capability, but also performance in other areas, as you'll see in the document. Japanese OEM's have refrained from developing proprietary approvals in most cases, with the exception of a few like the Nissan GT-R spec, which, I doubt coincidentally, was assigned to a Euro lube, and Honda's HTO-06 turbo spec, which was carried by M1 5w-30 almost exclusively for quite a stint. Otherwise, they've been typically "good" with just spec'ing API and reasonably short drain intervals.
In the quest to improve fuel economy, like has taken place here, these same OEM's are now applying these same strict limits and demanding standards to thinner lubricants, which differs from the apparent approach taken by the Japanese OEM's whose thrust was to reduce viscosity first, exposing some of the potential pitfalls with this process, such as very high volatility.
I've posted these slides before, but this has been one of the challenges:
Now contrast that to the Noack limits found in the European specs.
ACEA in its current form was founded because european manufacturers were scared of API energy conserving oils. 3.5 min HTHS became the standard overnight and still is to this day.
ford was the first to rebel and that’s how we got a1/b1 and a5/b5. other manufacturers slowly came to accept there was a time and place for fuel economy oils, the c5 segment is growing rapidly
ford was the first to rebel and that’s how we got a1/b1 and a5/b5. other manufacturers slowly came to accept there was a time and place for fuel economy oils, the c5 segment is growing rapidly
It was not only HTHS. There is fundamental difference between API and ACEA. API is lobbying arm for oil industry not car manufacturers. ACEA is organization founded by car manufacturers. They are opposite in their founding goals who the protect.
When ford made a move it was out of desperation. At that time name of the game was diesel. Ford was throwing everything in to compete with Vw, PSA etc. and one way they lower consumption was moving to thinner oils. Didn’t help much.
The ACEA was the first with regards to the adoption of industry wide long drain intervals combined with the performance requirements of significantly higher highway speeds (>100 mph).
Today there's less of a difference because almost all automakers use similar technology (ex, VVT, DI, Turbo) have long drain oils and operating environments are merging.
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BMW does the same thing. The spec for my B58 engine is 0W20. In Europe, the oil spec is 0W30.
While technically correct this is fundamentally incorrect. European countries track emissions (ex, grams of CO2, NOX, etc) and iirc consumers also pay a tax based upon the emissions of the vehicle.
I've owner many VW's over the years and always stuck with their approvals. So much that I continue to use 507 and 509 oils in all my vehicles.
I know the Lubrizol relative performance comparison, for whatever reason, appears not to use the same scaling for API/ISLAC vs Euro oils. Not sure why.
Anyhow, just my preference. YMMV
I know the Lubrizol relative performance comparison, for whatever reason, appears not to use the same scaling for API/ISLAC vs Euro oils. Not sure why.
Anyhow, just my preference. YMMV
No autobahn in the US and the vast majority of BMWs in the US are used to tool around town, to/from work, soccer field, grocery store.
Seems to be a popular question, here is another recent one with a few links to other threads:
Euro Oils
What are the advantages and disadvantages of euro oils over the normal full synthetics we typically see here is the U.S.? Like you choose valvoline euro synthetic over the valvoline advanced synthetic... I notice euro oils tend to be high calcium, have good doses of zinc and phosphorus...
bobistheoilguy.com
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