Help advise on what these oils specs indicate.

[Ahausheer]

I've got two 0w-20 oils, one meets:
BMW LL-17FE+, LL-14FE+
MB 229.72 MB 229.71

The second meets:
Porsche C20
VW 508 00/509 00


This is theoretical so please don't reply "use what your owners manuals says". I'm trying to learn what possible differences the above specifications may indicate about the oils themselves based on those specs.

Hate to say it, but I'm also not looking for personal stories or anything anecdotal.

Anyone know anything about the objective chemistry requirements or testing procedures/requirements for the above specs? I can't find much online as to why these seemingly very similar 4 specs are always separated like this.

 

[Greasymechtech]

List the brands and pn of the oil so that members here can review the datasheets.

For example, the Motul 508 oil, when compared to their 229.72 8100 oil, is more MPG goal with lower HTHS, lower pour point, and lower at temp viscosity.

VW 508 also allows a higher than API level of z/p additives, if needed.

Since I am not looking for the thinnest MPG oil or the lowest additive oil, I tend to look elsewhere than OE requirements.

 

[Ahausheer]

I'd prefer not to list the brands because on this forum that will derail things. I am more interested about the requirements of each spec and what, if anything, can be inferred from those specs. For example, you mention the z/p in the VW spec, that's helpful.

For example:
I have never seen a single oil meet both the BMW spec above and the VW spec above. Why? What is it about the specified/required chemistry limits or test requirements that makes it so that no single oil can meet both specs?

 

[Greasymechtech]

ACEA C5-21

ACEA C5 oils are Top Tier mid Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur (SAPS) lubricants designed for use in high performance gasoline and light duty diesel engines. They provide an increased focus on improved fuel economy and are suitable for use alongside advanced aftertreatment systems such as...

360.lubrizol.com

Volkswagen VW50800-50900

360.lubrizol.com

 

[Ahausheer]

ACEA C5-21

ACEA C5 oils are Top Tier mid Sulphated Ash, Phosphorus and Sulphur (SAPS) lubricants designed for use in high performance gasoline and light duty diesel engines. They provide an increased focus on improved fuel economy and are suitable for use alongside advanced aftertreatment systems such as...

360.lubrizol.com

Volkswagen VW50800-50900

360.lubrizol.com

Thanks, I've seen that and the BMW and MB descriptions are also essentially that same as the VW's, so still not sure why the specs are always separated, IE, why no single oil meets such similar specs. What does it mean "Report" for the phosphorous and sulpher in the lubrizol link you sent?

 

[Greasymechtech]

Report means... the blender making the oil states what it is to the automaker

 

[Ahausheer]

Report means... the blender making the oil states what it is to the automaker

Ah that's interesting that there is no limit where ad the BMW and MB have a limit. So maybe that's why the specs are always separated like that.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I've got two 0w-20 oils, one meets:
BMW LL-17FE+, LL-14FE+
MB 229.72 MB 229.71

The second meets:
Porsche C20
VW 508 00/509 00


This is theoretical so please don't reply "use what your owners manuals says". I'm trying to learn what possible differences the above specifications may indicate about the oils themselves based on those specs.

Hate to say it, but I'm also not looking for personal stories or anything anecdotal.

Anyone know anything about the objective chemistry requirements or testing procedures/requirements for the above specs? I can't find much online as to why these seemingly very similar 4 specs are always separated like this.

Nobody knows because the specific tests for all of these certs are not publicly available.

The difference could be something as simple as marketing.

 

[Greasymechtech]

Ah that's interesting that there is no limit where ad the BMW and MB have a limit. So maybe that's why the specs are always separated like that.

There are limits, mins, max's... etc. Its for the automaker to approve. And, since most oils carry multiple specs, multiple limits have to be met.

Tests, specs, etc aren't for the sheeple. The limited info that is available is provided by the testers, by the oil blenders, additive manufacturers, and whatever leaks out from the automaker when they have videos/spreadsheets for whatever their plans are with a new requirement.

 

[ArthurArgentum]

Hate to say it, but I'm also not looking for personal stories or anything anecdotal.

Upon observing various recently introduced additive packages, it becomes evident that a trend of increasing universalization is underway. Good contemporary oils commonly incorporate dispersants, antioxidants, and effective antifoaming agents, regardless of the type of approval. Differentiation primarily lies in the polymer's resistance, which is typically assessed through SSI testing on a diesel jet. This rigorous test subjects the oil's polymers to extreme mechanical strain.

All German approvals have striking similarity. The requirements remain closely aligned, reflecting the German preference for viscosity-stable oils that keep viscosity even under extreme mechanical strain. But it is amusing to note that approval may be granted to seemingly simpler (ILSAC) oils in terms of formulation and design.