Valvoline
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Ok I am going to jump righ into this Valvoline thread and offer my 2 cents.
Valvoline is very good oil by anyones standard. Its good enough that I use it in my Vette and its the only car that I really worry about as far a oil is concerned.
On Fram: I dont use them simply because its internal construction and design does not appeal to me. Its as simple as that and buying something else doesnt cost me any more time or money. I do not over analyse these things, I am just a regular guy doing regular things. I spend more time deciding what I want on a burger than what evidence I have for or against a $3 oil filter.
Valvoline is very good oil by anyones standard. Its good enough that I use it in my Vette and its the only car that I really worry about as far a oil is concerned.
On Fram: I dont use them simply because its internal construction and design does not appeal to me. Its as simple as that and buying something else doesnt cost me any more time or money. I do not over analyse these things, I am just a regular guy doing regular things. I spend more time deciding what I want on a burger than what evidence I have for or against a $3 oil filter.
Originally Posted By: Big_Ed
One of the guys behind the counter at a local NAPA said Fram has gone downhill because Walmart wanted the filters to be less expensive, so they had to use cheaper materials like cardboard end caps instead of metal to keep the cost down.
Fram was building junk before Sam Walton ever expanded beyond Arkansas, let alone started cutting deals with suppliers.
Valvoline- Very good oil. When Max Life first came out, I thought "oh no, Valvoline is jumping on the gimmick bandwagon," but its actually a superb oil. Its heavy on the additive package and the "seal conditioners" are very mild and probably help, rather than destroying seals prematurely like the old alcohol-loaded snake oil additives fromyears past that initially soften seals, then turn them to dried pasta after a few months or years.
One of the guys behind the counter at a local NAPA said Fram has gone downhill because Walmart wanted the filters to be less expensive, so they had to use cheaper materials like cardboard end caps instead of metal to keep the cost down.
Fram was building junk before Sam Walton ever expanded beyond Arkansas, let alone started cutting deals with suppliers.
Valvoline- Very good oil. When Max Life first came out, I thought "oh no, Valvoline is jumping on the gimmick bandwagon," but its actually a superb oil. Its heavy on the additive package and the "seal conditioners" are very mild and probably help, rather than destroying seals prematurely like the old alcohol-loaded snake oil additives fromyears past that initially soften seals, then turn them to dried pasta after a few months or years.
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Why use Fram when there are better filters for the same or less dollars.
Hey, I used to be as big of a Fram basher as anybody. If you are going to bash Fram, get the facts straight. Nitrile or silicone, the ABDV seals against the base of the filter, not the end cap. I have yet to see a base plate made out of anything but steel.
I was appalled at what I found inside the one Fram I cut open. However I have no data to link my speculation about its quality to engine wear.
I was appalled at what I found inside the one Fram I cut open. However I have no data to link my speculation about its quality to engine wear.
With every purchase one makes, we are voting with our wallets. We are a small vote most of the time, but when enough people are informed, the numbers start to add up. If we "shrug it off" and spend money without even a whim of thought on what we are voting for in doing so, then we forfeit any right to complain about any product or politician ever again, as we have not voted with our minds in-tact.
In my opinion, Fram makes a low quality albeit usable and acceptable filter, the problem is not whether the product is functional, but whether the value is there. I see Fram as having a lower quality product than a SuperTech. If I were really really broke, and Frams were priced below SuperTech as they should be, then I would not have a problem purchasing a Fram once and awhile as it would represent a value option. I would happily part with $1.59 for a fram filter
In my opinion, Fram makes a low quality albeit usable and acceptable filter, the problem is not whether the product is functional, but whether the value is there. I see Fram as having a lower quality product than a SuperTech. If I were really really broke, and Frams were priced below SuperTech as they should be, then I would not have a problem purchasing a Fram once and awhile as it would represent a value option. I would happily part with $1.59 for a fram filter
Originally Posted By: mdocod
With every purchase one makes, we are voting with our wallets. We are a small vote most of the time, but when enough people are informed, the numbers start to add up. If we "shrug it off" and spend money without even a whim of thought on what we are voting for in doing so, then we forfeit any right to complain about any product or politician ever again, as we have not voted with our minds in-tact.
In my opinion, Fram makes a low quality albeit usable and acceptable filter, the problem is not whether the product is functional, but whether the value is there. I see Fram as having a lower quality product than a SuperTech. If I were really really broke, and Frams were priced below SuperTech as they should be, then I would not have a problem purchasing a Fram once and awhile as it would represent a value option. I would happily part with $1.59 for a fram filter
I nominate as Post Of The Week.
With every purchase one makes, we are voting with our wallets. We are a small vote most of the time, but when enough people are informed, the numbers start to add up. If we "shrug it off" and spend money without even a whim of thought on what we are voting for in doing so, then we forfeit any right to complain about any product or politician ever again, as we have not voted with our minds in-tact.
In my opinion, Fram makes a low quality albeit usable and acceptable filter, the problem is not whether the product is functional, but whether the value is there. I see Fram as having a lower quality product than a SuperTech. If I were really really broke, and Frams were priced below SuperTech as they should be, then I would not have a problem purchasing a Fram once and awhile as it would represent a value option. I would happily part with $1.59 for a fram filter
I nominate as Post Of The Week.
Originally Posted By: mdocod
In my opinion, Fram makes a low quality albeit usable and acceptable filter, the problem is not whether the product is functional, but whether the value is there. I see Fram as having a lower quality product than a SuperTech.
Amen Bro. I wish more people could understand that. Their usual retort is "Oh yeah, you saying my car will explode into a 1000 pieces if I use a Fram?" But no one ever said that.
It's just about lack of value, and low quality. You summed it up nicely. Great post!
In my opinion, Fram makes a low quality albeit usable and acceptable filter, the problem is not whether the product is functional, but whether the value is there. I see Fram as having a lower quality product than a SuperTech.
Amen Bro. I wish more people could understand that. Their usual retort is "Oh yeah, you saying my car will explode into a 1000 pieces if I use a Fram?" But no one ever said that.
It's just about lack of value, and low quality. You summed it up nicely. Great post!
Well, we have gone from the original topic of Valvoline to now talking about FRAM filters. I guess if this thread sticks around long enough we can talk about Castrol and maybe some different air filters or fuel additives.
I use Valvoline. No labratory evidence, but like everything else - it has not caused a problem.
I just filled my mother's Toyota Highlander 3.0L V6 with Valvoline Synpower w/ a Purolator Pureone filter. (AAP deal)
Before this, M1 all the way. 140,000 miles.
Any suggestions on the change interval with the Valvoline? thx.
Before this, M1 all the way. 140,000 miles.
Any suggestions on the change interval with the Valvoline? thx.
Depends on driving conditions. 5K-6K
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Well, we have gone from the original topic of Valvoline to now talking about FRAM filters.
Actually, if you read the OP's post it was he who initiated the Fram point of discussion.
Other posters just explained why they don't think highly of the orange can. Simply, it's about getting the most for ones money. Just as the OP made the statement that synthetic (IHO) is a rip off, many including myself think, that based on it's construction the orange can is a rip off.
As for Valvoline, it's good oil, which I had a good UOA with. That said, it now sells at a premium at Wally to many good dino's like MC Syn Blend, MC5k, QS, HavolineDS and PYB. With 5k/6month OCI's, it's not worth the price premium to me.
Well, we have gone from the original topic of Valvoline to now talking about FRAM filters.
Actually, if you read the OP's post it was he who initiated the Fram point of discussion.
Other posters just explained why they don't think highly of the orange can. Simply, it's about getting the most for ones money. Just as the OP made the statement that synthetic (IHO) is a rip off, many including myself think, that based on it's construction the orange can is a rip off.
As for Valvoline, it's good oil, which I had a good UOA with. That said, it now sells at a premium at Wally to many good dino's like MC Syn Blend, MC5k, QS, HavolineDS and PYB. With 5k/6month OCI's, it's not worth the price premium to me.
Your probably right. I should have started at the beginning instead of the end. My apologizes.
Originally Posted By: Nick_Escalante
I just filled my mother's Toyota Highlander 3.0L V6 with Valvoline Synpower w/ a Purolator Pureone filter. (AAP deal)
Before this, M1 all the way. 140,000 miles.
Any suggestions on the change interval with the Valvoline? thx.
Between 5,000-7,500 miles depending on how long it takes to put on those miles, type of service, etc.
I just filled my mother's Toyota Highlander 3.0L V6 with Valvoline Synpower w/ a Purolator Pureone filter. (AAP deal)
Before this, M1 all the way. 140,000 miles.
Any suggestions on the change interval with the Valvoline? thx.
Between 5,000-7,500 miles depending on how long it takes to put on those miles, type of service, etc.
Originally Posted By: glen242
I have used Valvoline VR1 10W30 in my 383 flat tappet stroker since I built it 4 years ago.
It has the correct amount of ZDDP for my flat tappet engine - 0.14/0.13.
IMHO, great oil at a good price.
I agree. After a lot of thought I just switched to VR1 10-30 after using Mobil 1 15-50 and 10-30 for the last 12 years. I'll switch to the 20-50 when it warms up. I have an old dinasaur and the lower levels of ZDDP in the newer oils have had me worried considering that there are other components in the older engines that need the ZDDP in addition to the lifters and cam. I used oil with the Mobil 1 and with dino it doesn't use a drop. I don't think the amount of ZDDP even in the Mobil 1 15-50 is enough. Just my opinion.
I have used Valvoline VR1 10W30 in my 383 flat tappet stroker since I built it 4 years ago.
It has the correct amount of ZDDP for my flat tappet engine - 0.14/0.13.
IMHO, great oil at a good price.
I agree. After a lot of thought I just switched to VR1 10-30 after using Mobil 1 15-50 and 10-30 for the last 12 years. I'll switch to the 20-50 when it warms up. I have an old dinasaur and the lower levels of ZDDP in the newer oils have had me worried considering that there are other components in the older engines that need the ZDDP in addition to the lifters and cam. I used oil with the Mobil 1 and with dino it doesn't use a drop. I don't think the amount of ZDDP even in the Mobil 1 15-50 is enough. Just my opinion.
Originally Posted By: Trvlr500
Originally Posted By: glen242
I have used Valvoline VR1 10W30 in my 383 flat tappet stroker since I built it 4 years ago.
It has the correct amount of ZDDP for my flat tappet engine - 0.14/0.13.
IMHO, great oil at a good price.
I agree. After a lot of thought I just switched to VR1 10-30 after using Mobil 1 15-50 and 10-30 for the last 12 years. I'll switch to the 20-50 when it warms up. I have an old dinasaur and the lower levels of ZDDP in the newer oils have had me worried considering that there are other components in the older engines that need the ZDDP in addition to the lifters and cam. I used oil with the Mobil 1 and with dino it doesn't use a drop. I don't think the amount of ZDDP even in the Mobil 1 15-50 is enough. Just my opinion.
I use 15W50 Mobil 1 in a few of my high performance muscle cars and I add a bottle of ZDDPlus to every oil change. The engines run like silk. I think that the 15W/50 has enough zinc/phos but considering the value of my cars($80K +) throwing in a $10 bottle of ZDDPlus is a little extra insurance.
Originally Posted By: glen242
I have used Valvoline VR1 10W30 in my 383 flat tappet stroker since I built it 4 years ago.
It has the correct amount of ZDDP for my flat tappet engine - 0.14/0.13.
IMHO, great oil at a good price.
I agree. After a lot of thought I just switched to VR1 10-30 after using Mobil 1 15-50 and 10-30 for the last 12 years. I'll switch to the 20-50 when it warms up. I have an old dinasaur and the lower levels of ZDDP in the newer oils have had me worried considering that there are other components in the older engines that need the ZDDP in addition to the lifters and cam. I used oil with the Mobil 1 and with dino it doesn't use a drop. I don't think the amount of ZDDP even in the Mobil 1 15-50 is enough. Just my opinion.
I use 15W50 Mobil 1 in a few of my high performance muscle cars and I add a bottle of ZDDPlus to every oil change. The engines run like silk. I think that the 15W/50 has enough zinc/phos but considering the value of my cars($80K +) throwing in a $10 bottle of ZDDPlus is a little extra insurance.
Originally Posted By: addyguy
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: addyguy
10W-40 by the case, and 3k OCI's...
Livin' in the 1970's, are we?
I agree about Fram filters, they work just fine. People are stupid about them on here.......
I beg your pardon?
The Fram-bashing that goes on here is not based on fact. It's a 'jump on the bandwagon' kind of thing.
This kind of reaction to a product makes some of the otherwise knowledgable people on this site look stupid when they do it.
To me its partially based on facts. Being on this site for 4 years, the only filter that I have seen compromised was a Fram orange can. That filter I don't believe was even on for a really long time either. I have seen a lot of frams orange cut open after a oil change and they have looked the ugliest with twisted media to tearing from the base. I have seen other brands look ugly too but not to the extent of a Fram orange can. To me those are facts.
Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: addyguy
10W-40 by the case, and 3k OCI's...
Livin' in the 1970's, are we?
I agree about Fram filters, they work just fine. People are stupid about them on here.......
I beg your pardon?
The Fram-bashing that goes on here is not based on fact. It's a 'jump on the bandwagon' kind of thing.
This kind of reaction to a product makes some of the otherwise knowledgable people on this site look stupid when they do it.
To me its partially based on facts. Being on this site for 4 years, the only filter that I have seen compromised was a Fram orange can. That filter I don't believe was even on for a really long time either. I have seen a lot of frams orange cut open after a oil change and they have looked the ugliest with twisted media to tearing from the base. I have seen other brands look ugly too but not to the extent of a Fram orange can. To me those are facts.
Not everything needs to be a scientific fact. This is not the court of law but the court of public opinion. So far, FRAM Orange Cans have been shown to be suspect with numerous posts of people showing evidence that Orange Cans have problems in certain cases.
Even if 95% of Orange Cans never fail, the 5% is way more than is tolerable especially if other products have a better success rate.
Oh and it doesn't help FRAM that they decided to ignore all the criticism until recently.
With all this being said, I do find it unfair that a lot of people have taken the Orange Can bashing and expanded it into the bashing of all of FRAM's products. Tough Guards, Extended Guards, Cartridge Filters, and air filters by FRAM are excellent as far as I know. Pricing is an issue with most but it is what it is.
Even if 95% of Orange Cans never fail, the 5% is way more than is tolerable especially if other products have a better success rate.
Oh and it doesn't help FRAM that they decided to ignore all the criticism until recently.
With all this being said, I do find it unfair that a lot of people have taken the Orange Can bashing and expanded it into the bashing of all of FRAM's products. Tough Guards, Extended Guards, Cartridge Filters, and air filters by FRAM are excellent as far as I know. Pricing is an issue with most but it is what it is.
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