Toyota says I can't use 0W-30 in the Corolla ...

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: daman
No issues with the AFE,what in that oil could possibly harm that engine? nothing it's a fine oil that works year around.



Dman, it will be like the old GTX commercial "dda dunt dadada duunt.......BANG!!"

 

[walk23]

I have a 2006 Matrix and Have been changing over to a 5W-20 from 5W-30. Someone posted on here that Toyota back specked the engine to a 5W-20.

 

[Hootbro]

My old 98 Corolla was a oil user since new. I ran 15W-40 for close to 286K before the daughter totaled it. Never missed a beat and when I changed the valve cover gasket at 175K, the valve train look clean with just a hint of varnish.

0W-30 should not be an issue. Also, Toyota or any other maker will never recommend anything other than what the manual will call out.

 

[The_Eric]

Originally Posted By: Eddie
Do what Toyota recomends or take your chances. A no brainer for me.


I'd have though that you've been on this site long enough to know that there is no harm in using a 0w oil in place of a 5w oil in an application such as this.

 

[OldCowboy]

With Mobil 1, there's not enough difference between 0W30 AFE, 5W30, and 10W30 to matter. Use any 0W30 you want. It's all 30 weight at operating temps.

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
0W-30 has a really high concentration of viscosity-index improvers (even with Group IV basestocks) and chances are that it will almost shear to 0W-20 anyway.


Hmm, there are plenty of UOAs with 0w30 GC posted here which say otherwise. Even a couple recent ones on M1 AFE:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2240384#Post2240384
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2238334#Post2238334

Energy conserving 30 wt oils are likely to shear to 20 wt whether they be 0w30, 5w30 or 10w30. ACEA A3 oils, not so much.

 

[Gokhan]

Here is the Group IV/V (PAO + Group V) "truly synthetic" oil formulation guide by Mobil.

As you can see in the table, the more is the spread in xW-y, the more is the concentration of viscosity-index improvers (VIIs) in the formulation.

How much an oil will shear depends on two things: (a) how much VIIs are in the oil and (b) how much a particular make and model of VII shears (how good quality a particular make and model of VII is [Infineum SV277 in the table above]).

Note that the above is a guide only and it's not the formulation of Mobil 1 Group IV/V oils. It's possible to formulate Group IV/V oils (except for perhaps very wide spreads in xW-y) without any VIIs and some VIIs also shear very little.

So, it's hard to say how much a given 0W-30 (say, Mobil 1 AFE) would shear. The UOAs seem to suggest that Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE doesn't shear much. But, in general, if you're looking for a shear-resistant oil, you're safest with the smallest spread -- in this case dino (conventional) or synthetic 10W-30. Many dino and synthetic 5W-30s shear quite a bit. Also, if your application is OK running even the thinnest grades and you don't drive too hard or tow too heavy, shear isn't a big concern.

 

[JasonBraswell]

Please stop calling this chart "official". No one at Toyota has approved this chart. I have spoken to numerous service and parts people at Toyota dealerhips in the area and they are not aware of backward specifying oil from 30wt to 20wt. Dis-credible info like this makes this site look bad!
Originally Posted By: Gokhan

According to the official Toyota chart, that car can take as low as 0W-20.

0W-30 has a really high concentration of viscosity-index improvers (even with Group IV basestocks) and chances are that it will almost shear to 0W-20 anyway.

If you want to use thin oil for maximum fuel efficiency, use Genuine Toyota 0W-20 oil (made in Japan by Nippon oil -- ENEOS). It has a really high level of molybdenum and will give you the best fuel economy you can ever obtain from a motor oil. It's more "advanced fuel economy" than Mobil 1:

By the way, synthetic vs. conventional makes no difference as long as you change your oil frequently. "Synthetic" is more of a marketing term than a technical term and simply being synthetic doesn't guarantee a higher performance, as actual basestocks and additive packages both wildly vary.

 

[steve20]

Originally Posted By: Benoit
I am using 0w-30 in my 2004 1ZZ-FE since 4 years now without having any problem.

Just my 2 cents...


But---it's Amsoil 0-30 correct--?

 

[chet2]

i have used 0-30 before and i would try M1 0-20 to get max mpg...i got close to 38mpg in my 5 speed focus last year with 0-20

 

[mongo161]

Wow...Steve has finally started to open his eyes. When did you learn to read....lol....more nonsense.....just read what is in the man's signature line...is it that difficult for you?


Originally Posted By: steve20
Originally Posted By: Benoit
I am using 0w-30 in my 2004 1ZZ-FE since 4 years now without having any problem.

Just my 2 cents...


But---it's Amsoil 0-30 correct--?

 

[ARB1977]

I ran AFE 0W30 for a few changes last year in my 3.4L and did no harm. Fuel milage didn't change.

 

[webfors]

I'm sure the AFE 0w30 would be fine. But I see *no* reason to run an 0w weight oil except to improve cold starts in extreme low temps.

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
Originally Posted By: daman
No issues with the AFE,what in that oil could possibly harm that engine? nothing it's a fine oil that works year around.



Dman, it will be like the old GTX commercial "dda dunt dadada duunt.......BANG!!"

lol

 

[daman]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Here is the Group IV/V (PAO + Group V) "truly synthetic" oil formulation guide by Mobil.

As you can see in the table, the more is the spread in xW-y, the more is the concentration of viscosity-index improvers (VIIs) in the formulation.

How much an oil will shear depends on two things: (a) how much VIIs are in the oil and (b) how much a particular make and model of VII shears (how good quality a particular make and model of VII is [Infineum SV277 in the table above]).

Note that the above is a guide only and it's not the formulation of Mobil 1 Group IV/V oils. It's possible to formulate Group IV/V oils (except for perhaps very wide spreads in xW-y) without any VIIs and some VIIs also shear very little.

So, it's hard to say how much a given 0W-30 (say, Mobil 1 AFE) would shear. The UOAs seem to suggest that Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE doesn't shear much. But, in general, if you're looking for a shear-resistant oil, you're safest with the smallest spread -- in this case dino (conventional) or synthetic 10W-30. Many dino and synthetic 5W-30s shear quite a bit. Also, if your application is OK running even the thinnest grades and you don't drive too hard or tow too heavy, shear isn't a big concern.

With quality oil's(base stocks) i'm sure shearing is keep to a minimum,AFE for me in severe conditions it comes out just as thick or thin as when it when in,is that a reliable source? probably not but haven't lost an engine yet with this oil.

we all know about shearing so you can stop posting every other post about it no cars are on the side of the road blown from running a 0wxx oil.

 

[gpshumway]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
So, it's hard to say how much a given 0W-30 (say, Mobil 1 AFE) would shear. The UOAs seem to suggest that Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE doesn't shear much.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
0W-30 has a really high concentration of viscosity-index improvers (even with Group IV basestocks) and chances are that it will almost shear to 0W-20 anyway.


I'm confused. What exactly are you saying? You seem to be directly contradicting yourself.

Sure, as a general rule oils with a greater XwY spread have greater concentrations of VIIs, but so what? As you said, some oils have base stocks with inherently higher VI, and some have very high quality VIIs which don't shear.

How about another general rule? "All things being equal, a higher VI is better." Isn't that what we want? As long as the oil doesn't shear, I'll take better cold start protection.

What's more, 0w30 doesn't always have higher VI than 5w30, the difference can be in pour point modifiers which don't come into play until very cold temperatures. This is exactly the case with the two oils in direct discussion here, M1 AFE 0w30 and M1 5w30. M1 5w30 has a VI of 172 to 0w30 AFE's 166.

So which oil is more likely to shear? The one with the higher VI or the one with the greater XwY spread? Luckily we have UOA data which, as you point out, indicates 0w30 AFE doesn't shear. If anything the UOA data for M1 5w30 says the opposite. There are plenty of cases where turbo Subarus (like the one in my AFE link above) shear 5w30 M1 to 5w20 in as little as 1,000 miles.

Why apply general rules to a specific question? Especially when those general rules have many glaring exceptions including the specific case under consideration.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: daman
With quality oil's(base stocks) i'm sure shearing is keep to a minimum,AFE for me in severe conditions it comes out just as thick or thin as when it when in,is that a reliable source? probably not but haven't lost an engine yet with this oil.

we all know about shearing so you can stop posting every other post about it no cars are on the side of the road blown from running a 0wxx oil.

Did I ever say that 0W-x would harm your engine? I was mainly pointing out the differences between xW-30 grades to those who don't know how they are formulated.

If you know about shearing, why do you say "With quality oil's(base stocks) i'm sure shearing is keep to a minimum?"

Shearing has nothing to do with the basestocks. It's only determined by the amount and quality of VIIs. As you see in the table I posted, even for a Group IV/V oil, there can be a lot of VIIs present. Even though PAO basestocks have good viscosity index, you need to put Group V basestocks to increase cleaning properties, which lowers the viscosity index and makes it necessary to have VIIs. For example Synnestic 5 Group V basestock only has a viscosity index of 74, which makes it necessary to have a lot of VIIs. If you had a pure Group IV PAO-based oil without Group V, it wouldn't be very stable and it wouldn't be compatible with the seals and it would have poor cleaning and solvency properties. So, it's always a compromise with motor oil.

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: gpshumway
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
So, it's hard to say how much a given 0W-30 (say, Mobil 1 AFE) would shear. The UOAs seem to suggest that Mobil 1 0W-30 AFE doesn't shear much.

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
0W-30 has a really high concentration of viscosity-index improvers (even with Group IV basestocks) and chances are that it will almost shear to 0W-20 anyway.


I'm confused. What exactly are you saying? You seem to be directly contradicting yourself.

Sure, as a general rule oils with a greater XwY spread have greater concentrations of VIIs, but so what? As you said, some oils have base stocks with inherently higher VI, and some have very high quality VIIs which don't shear.

How about another general rule? "All things being equal, a higher VI is better." Isn't that what we want? As long as the oil doesn't shear, I'll take better cold start protection.

What's more, 0w30 doesn't always have higher VI than 5w30, the difference can be in pour point modifiers which don't come into play until very cold temperatures. This is exactly the case with the two oils in direct discussion here, M1 AFE 0w30 and M1 5w30. M1 5w30 has a VI of 172 to 0w30 AFE's 166.

So which oil is more likely to shear? The one with the higher VI or the one with the greater XwY spread? Luckily we have UOA data which, as you point out, indicates 0w30 AFE doesn't shear. If anything the UOA data for M1 5w30 says the opposite. There are plenty of cases where turbo Subarus (like the one in my AFE link above) shear 5w30 M1 to 5w20 in as little as 1,000 miles.

Why apply general rules to a specific question? Especially when those general rules have many glaring exceptions including the specific case under consideration.

My post meant to be educational as the original poster seemed to be fascinated merely by the thought of having a 0W-x oil, without knowing how it is formulated.

Your statement "All things being equal, a higher VI is better" is wrong. It's simply because all things are never equal when you formulate motor oil and there is always a compromise.

Read my post above. How are you going to obtain a higher viscosity index? You can for example use a lot of viscosity-index improvers, but this obviously makes the oil less stable. You can use a PAO-based oil but it would have stability, seal-compatibility, and lack-of-solvency problems; so, you need to add Group V into it, which lowers the viscosity index and you're back to Square 1. With a PAO-based oil, instead of adding Group V, you can add Group II or III basestocks with high viscosity indexes to solve PAO basestocks' inherent problems I just mentioned but some people won't like that either.

This is exactly the reason why API doesn't even consider "synthetic" a technical term and the word synthetic is not in any part of the API specifications. And this is also the reason why there are a vast number of SAE viscosity grades and motor-oil types -- you need to find the optimal one for your specific application.

You should first learn that all things are never equal in formulating motor oil and there is always a compromise. Then you will start to understand why synhetic is not always superior to dino or 0W-x is not always superior to 10W-x etc.

 

[mva]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Here is the Group IV/V (PAO + Group V) "truly synthetic" oil formulation guide by Mobil.

As you can see in the table, the more is the spread in xW-y, the more is the concentration of viscosity-index improvers (VIIs) in the formulation.



Wow Gokhan - great detailed info on the M1 oils - very interesting stuff - thanks for posting!

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: mva
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Here is the Group IV/V (PAO + Group V) "truly synthetic" oil formulation guide by Mobil.

As you can see in the table, the more is the spread in xW-y, the more is the concentration of viscosity-index improvers (VIIs) in the formulation.



Wow Gokhan - great detailed info on the M1 oils - very interesting stuff - thanks for posting!


To be completely honest, these are the formulations they recommend to oil blenders using Group IV PAO (SpectraSyn) and V (Synesstic) Mobil synthetic basestocks and Mobil (Infineum) additive packages, not necessarily their own formulations, but it gives you a good idea of how Mobil 1 is likely being formulated.