Originally Posted By: pacem
This is why I say you cherry-picked the data, you compare one specific Buick to one specific Corolla.
It sounds like you arrived at a conclusion and then picking the data that supports your pre-determined conclusion. With this method, you can justify anything over anything. It doesn't matter what anyone says or what data comes up, you already made up your mind. Good for you, I suppose.
Apparently you are not paying attention. I didn't cherry pick the data. I had experiences with both cars, and I shared my data and the conclusions argued.
Now if you want to argue that what I present is anecdotal, then fine, I would agree. But then one would have to say the same about what you suggest.
You've presented ZERO facts and figures. I've presented my data. What data do you have to back up your assertion?
Originally Posted By: pacem
The key point here is that MPG is a relatively insignificant factor in the overall mantainance costs.
With that I agree. Until you get into the beater realm, the costs of fuel is a small part of the total costs of driving a car.
Now when you are talking about 1000-$3000 beaters, then fuel begins to be more than just a small cost. Even with my $2500 Prizm, fuel is only about 50% of my total costs, and about 66% if one is just looking at fuel and M&R since that's the only data I kept for the Buick.
Originally Posted By: pacem
Toyota = lower frequency of repairs, where do you get that idea from? Your limited experience with sample size n=1? Even the "frequency" by itself doesn't mean anything, how about the severity?
Show me your data. I agree, my sample size is small. Yet you've repeated put out the unsupported assertion that you can operate a V8 rear wheel drive car cheaper than my Prizm.
The data I have doesn't support that. If you would like to present real life data from your years of driving, then I'm willing to look at the data. The severity is noted in the costs. Remember, in my experience, the Buick needed a transmission overhaul (pretty severe) and the timing set replaced on the engine (still severe, but less than the transmission)
The bottom line is the Buick left me stranded at least twice in the 80K miles I owned it. The Prizm has not done the same. There has never been a day I've owned it where I couldn't drive it.
There were days when I drove it to the shop. But it never arrived on the back of a tow truck. So I think that speaks for my experience with severity, etc.
However, you present nothing more than speculation from what I've seen so far.
Originally Posted By: pacem
The 5th and 6th generation Camrys and other Toyota cars with the 2.4L engine are developing this serious issue with engine head gaskets leaking, often resulting in catastrophic engine failure. As the 2002+ cars are getting to 100K miles and beyond, this is happening en masse, here is just one sample, but you can browse the web and Toyota forums for plenty of evidence. It's not frequent but common and catastrophic and extremely expensive. I sold my Camry without waiting for this to hit the fan and end up with a 6K repair bill for replacement engine.
http://www.tundrasolutions.com/forums/camry/148454-camry-with-stripped-head-bolts/
Quote:
I am a service center owner and technician of over 40 years in SC. Recently, a 2003 Camry LE w/ 70,000 miles came into my shop with a coolant leak. I consulted this forum and others to find proof of the same instance in the Toyota Camry. I write this in response to some posts I read on this site. This is to be informative for those in similar situations.
To do the exam, we pressurized the cooling system and put the car up on the lift. We immediately noticed coolant leaking from underneath the plastic INT intake Manifold in the rear of the engine. I also noticed a Large piece of foam rubber between the Intake Manifold and the Engine Block and Head. This was blocking our view of the leak. We could only see that the leak was behind the foam piece. The only option to discover the source of this leak was to remove the plastic intake manifold, which I did. After this was removed, it became obvious that coolant had been leaking a minor amount for quite some time due to build up between the cylinder head and block.
The only option left is to remove the head, which requires an exstensive disassembly (R and R cylinder head). After Loosening the bolts in sequence, I notice the head bolts in the back of the engine are loose. From my experience in the field, I can confidently conclude that this only means one of two things: The bolts were left loose at the factory, or the Bolts are stripped. ( I commonly have seen stripped bolts in the Aluminum Cadillac North Star Block discovered through leaking coolant.)
Next, I removed the head and sure enough, one bolt came out with aluminum in the thread...thus indicating a stripped bolt.
MY THEORY: The placement of the (insulation) foam rubber piece between the Intake Manifold and the engine block created an uneven dispersion of heat, creating "metal fatigue" in the aluminum block allowing the headbolt to strip.
If Toyota had out an Aluminum Manifold instead of Plastic, there would have been no need to insulate (w/ foam piece), thus eliminating the probem.
The only solution to this problem is to unforunately replace the engine. The cost to repair it otherwise would be substantial. This is an engine defect and we WILL be seeing more of this.
In my experience, full size GM cars, specifically the B-body platform but also the LeSabre/Park Avenue line, is by far more reliable than cheaper GM cars or import econoboxes, and cost far less to maintain, purchase price include, all things considered. Econoboxes are far overrated and overpriced.
So show me your data. You cite ONE story from ONE tech, but you critique me on actually tracking my frequency of repairs and their associated costs?
I guess I have the odd 2002 Camry that is at 215k miles on that 2.4L engine, and no head gasket problems. Actually, as I've noted, the only problem with that car has been one axle.
If I liked driving a car with an automatic, it would serve me well to get one of those with 100K miles on it and drive it into the ground.
I must be the lucky one, as I've owned the only Buick 3.8L V6 to destroy both it's timing set and it's automatic transmission.
Look, don't buy a Corolla or a Prizm if you don't like them. But don't tell me that my experience is not real. I've been driving for close to 30 years now, and my experience is night and day with the cars I've owned the past 7 years compared to the first 20+ years of buying what you suggest is the cheaper way to go.
So far, my data doesn't support your assertion.
