I would DIY with CPVC.
Replace copper supply line with copper or PEX ?
- Thread starter Cressida
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PEx and never look back. Copper is going the way of the 
T Rex and just like him nobody’s gonna miss him . It’s a DIYers Dream come true.
T Rex and just like him nobody’s gonna miss him . It’s a DIYers Dream come true.
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I will also recommend PEX tubing. Specifically, I would use PEX-A (made using the peroxide method) which is a more expensive variety and specify the use of an expansion fitting where you do not lose any inner diameter.
PEX-A is more flexible and resilient than the less expensive and more common PEX-B but in the long run it is more desirable.
PEX-A is more flexible and resilient than the less expensive and more common PEX-B but in the long run it is more desirable.
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
I would DIY with CPVC.
^^^ This ^^^
There is no perfect solution and no one solution for all situations. I had to repipe my home about six years ago. Did a LOT of research before deciding on FlowGuard Gold CPVC. Why? Because copper will develop pinholes quickly if your municipal water supplier uses chloramine instead of chlorine to disinfect the water. PEX can degrade when exposed to sunlight for even a short time. Also when exposed to chlorine and freeze/thaw cycles. In PEX, the cracks occur inside the tubing, hidden from sight until they penetrate through the tube. The tubing looks fine, until it isn't. PEX can leach chemicals into the water. PEX can also develop biofilms inside. And rodents eat it like candy. PEX A, B and C have different pros and cons. If you go with PEX, know which one you're getting and whether or not it's right for your situation.
CPVC is resistant to biofilms and rodents, is chemically inert and is resistant to chlorine and chloramine. Failures are almost always due to installer error. There are two tricks to installing CPVC that will prevent failure:
1. When cutting segments of CPVC, it's essential to use a deburring tool to smooth the edge of the cut before applying the purple glue. Just a few quick swipes of the deburring tool on both ends before applying the glue and sliding them together.
2. After you slide the pieces together, hold them still for 1 minute. This prevents air bubbles from forming in the glue while the glue sets.
If you do these two things, your installation will be trouble-free. IIRC, FlowGuard Gold has a 50 year warranty against defects and failure. Here is a link that might be helpful:
PEX Problems and Solutions
Regardless of which material you choose, I hope this information is helpful to someone.
I would DIY with CPVC.
^^^ This ^^^
There is no perfect solution and no one solution for all situations. I had to repipe my home about six years ago. Did a LOT of research before deciding on FlowGuard Gold CPVC. Why? Because copper will develop pinholes quickly if your municipal water supplier uses chloramine instead of chlorine to disinfect the water. PEX can degrade when exposed to sunlight for even a short time. Also when exposed to chlorine and freeze/thaw cycles. In PEX, the cracks occur inside the tubing, hidden from sight until they penetrate through the tube. The tubing looks fine, until it isn't. PEX can leach chemicals into the water. PEX can also develop biofilms inside. And rodents eat it like candy. PEX A, B and C have different pros and cons. If you go with PEX, know which one you're getting and whether or not it's right for your situation.
CPVC is resistant to biofilms and rodents, is chemically inert and is resistant to chlorine and chloramine. Failures are almost always due to installer error. There are two tricks to installing CPVC that will prevent failure:
1. When cutting segments of CPVC, it's essential to use a deburring tool to smooth the edge of the cut before applying the purple glue. Just a few quick swipes of the deburring tool on both ends before applying the glue and sliding them together.
2. After you slide the pieces together, hold them still for 1 minute. This prevents air bubbles from forming in the glue while the glue sets.
If you do these two things, your installation will be trouble-free. IIRC, FlowGuard Gold has a 50 year warranty against defects and failure. Here is a link that might be helpful:
PEX Problems and Solutions
Regardless of which material you choose, I hope this information is helpful to someone.
Last edited:
CPVC.
33 years as a journeyman plumber/pipe fitter/welder.
33 years as a journeyman plumber/pipe fitter/welder.
Originally Posted By: Leo99
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Pex and sharkbites!
I have some upcoming plumbing projects and that's all I'm planning on using! I actually need to get going on them pretty soon ...
The guy at lowes told me I was a "P--- poor plumber" for even thinking about using pex and sharkbites.
Real plumbers hate sharkbites.
That's okay. I'm not a plumber. Neither is the guy working in the Lowes plumbing department who argued with me about the size of the drain pipes under my sink and demanded that I buy the wrong size pipe.
I made note to mention his demeanor when I returned all of the wrong stuff
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Pex and sharkbites!
I have some upcoming plumbing projects and that's all I'm planning on using! I actually need to get going on them pretty soon ...
The guy at lowes told me I was a "P--- poor plumber" for even thinking about using pex and sharkbites.
Real plumbers hate sharkbites.
That's okay. I'm not a plumber. Neither is the guy working in the Lowes plumbing department who argued with me about the size of the drain pipes under my sink and demanded that I buy the wrong size pipe.
I made note to mention his demeanor when I returned all of the wrong stuff
Originally Posted By: CT8
The life of the copper seems short .I am probably wrong could there be a bad electrical ground type of problem causing electrolisis.
Hard water will wreak havoc on copper pipe.
Usually, a plumbing contractor will use TYPE M copper to save $$$$. Me, I would use TYPE L in a homeowners house if I had the job. If I were to use copper in my own home it would be TYPE K. Yes, it's almost triple the price of TYPE M and double the price than TYPE L, but it would most likely never leak. Oh, and I would put a water softener on my water supply as well.
The life of the copper seems short .I am probably wrong could there be a bad electrical ground type of problem causing electrolisis.
Hard water will wreak havoc on copper pipe.
Usually, a plumbing contractor will use TYPE M copper to save $$$$. Me, I would use TYPE L in a homeowners house if I had the job. If I were to use copper in my own home it would be TYPE K. Yes, it's almost triple the price of TYPE M and double the price than TYPE L, but it would most likely never leak. Oh, and I would put a water softener on my water supply as well.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: CT8
The life of the copper seems short .I am probably wrong could there be a bad electrical ground type of problem causing electrolisis.
Hard water will wreak havoc on copper pipe.
Usually, a plumbing contractor will use TYPE M copper to save $$$$. Me, I would use TYPE L in a homeowners house if I had the job. If I were to use copper in my own home it would be TYPE K. Yes, it's almost triple the price of TYPE M and double the price than TYPE L, but it would most likely never leak. Oh, and I would put a water softener on my water supply as well.
You are correct about the plumbers using the TYPE M copper and your recommendation that TYPE L (or better) should be used if one wants a quality job that may last.
I will look into the CPVC pipe that you and others suggested. I wasn't even considering that before because I think of that like the original plastic pipe from decades ago that caused many problems back in the 1980's. I believe the CPVC is a different, and proven product and hope that it is available in my community.
Originally Posted By: CT8
The life of the copper seems short .I am probably wrong could there be a bad electrical ground type of problem causing electrolisis.
Hard water will wreak havoc on copper pipe.
Usually, a plumbing contractor will use TYPE M copper to save $$$$. Me, I would use TYPE L in a homeowners house if I had the job. If I were to use copper in my own home it would be TYPE K. Yes, it's almost triple the price of TYPE M and double the price than TYPE L, but it would most likely never leak. Oh, and I would put a water softener on my water supply as well.
You are correct about the plumbers using the TYPE M copper and your recommendation that TYPE L (or better) should be used if one wants a quality job that may last.
I will look into the CPVC pipe that you and others suggested. I wasn't even considering that before because I think of that like the original plastic pipe from decades ago that caused many problems back in the 1980's. I believe the CPVC is a different, and proven product and hope that it is available in my community.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Cressida
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: CT8
The life of the copper seems short .I am probably wrong could there be a bad electrical ground type of problem causing electrolisis.
Hard water will wreak havoc on copper pipe.
Usually, a plumbing contractor will use TYPE M copper to save $$$$. Me, I would use TYPE L in a homeowners house if I had the job. If I were to use copper in my own home it would be TYPE K. Yes, it's almost triple the price of TYPE M and double the price than TYPE L, but it would most likely never leak. Oh, and I would put a water softener on my water supply as well.
You are correct about the plumbers using the TYPE M copper and your recommendation that TYPE L (or better) should be used if one wants a quality job that may last.
I will look into the CPVC pipe that you and others suggested. I wasn't even considering that before because I think of that like the original plastic pipe from decades ago that caused many problems back in the 1980's. I believe the CPVC is a different, and proven product and hope that it is available in my community.
You're thinking of polybutylene.
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: CT8
The life of the copper seems short .I am probably wrong could there be a bad electrical ground type of problem causing electrolisis.
Hard water will wreak havoc on copper pipe.
Usually, a plumbing contractor will use TYPE M copper to save $$$$. Me, I would use TYPE L in a homeowners house if I had the job. If I were to use copper in my own home it would be TYPE K. Yes, it's almost triple the price of TYPE M and double the price than TYPE L, but it would most likely never leak. Oh, and I would put a water softener on my water supply as well.
You are correct about the plumbers using the TYPE M copper and your recommendation that TYPE L (or better) should be used if one wants a quality job that may last.
I will look into the CPVC pipe that you and others suggested. I wasn't even considering that before because I think of that like the original plastic pipe from decades ago that caused many problems back in the 1980's. I believe the CPVC is a different, and proven product and hope that it is available in my community.
You're thinking of polybutylene.
This is worth watching if you are thinking about replacing water lines.
dnewton3
Staff member
For decades I was a fan of copper plumbing.
Not anymore. After building my latest house (I was my own GC and did some work myself), I used PEX. I will never again use anything but PEX. Too flippin' easy to use, bends any way to Sunday, less risk of cold-induced fracture (essentially none). Simple fittings to use (crimp or clamp) means no open flame for soldering. Etc.
PEX be the future, for good reason!
Not anymore. After building my latest house (I was my own GC and did some work myself), I used PEX. I will never again use anything but PEX. Too flippin' easy to use, bends any way to Sunday, less risk of cold-induced fracture (essentially none). Simple fittings to use (crimp or clamp) means no open flame for soldering. Etc.
PEX be the future, for good reason!
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
For decades I was a fan of copper plumbing.
Not anymore. After building my latest house (I was my own GC and did some work myself), I used PEX. I will never again use anything but PEX. Too flippin' easy to use, bends any way to Sunday, less risk of cold-induced fracture (essentially none). Simple fittings to use (crimp or clamp) means no open flame for soldering. Etc.
PEX be the future, for good reason!
If I were to build my own home I would use TYPE K copper or CPVC. I have been in this trade (Over 35 years pipe fitter/welder/journey plumber) too long to know what I prefer and what I would recommend.
For decades I was a fan of copper plumbing.
Not anymore. After building my latest house (I was my own GC and did some work myself), I used PEX. I will never again use anything but PEX. Too flippin' easy to use, bends any way to Sunday, less risk of cold-induced fracture (essentially none). Simple fittings to use (crimp or clamp) means no open flame for soldering. Etc.
PEX be the future, for good reason!
If I were to build my own home I would use TYPE K copper or CPVC. I have been in this trade (Over 35 years pipe fitter/welder/journey plumber) too long to know what I prefer and what I would recommend.
dnewton3
Staff member
I've used CPVC for some renovations in my previous home. It's good stuff and easy to use. But I had a "bad experience" once with it. While the system was pressurized, it got a strike from an errant board being swung around, and the shock cracked the CPVC and made for a big wet mess. Had that happened to PEX, it would have absorbed the impact and shrugged it off. Not really a reason to shy away from CPVC, but just an admitted anecdote.
Why the preference for copper BOF? What advantage over PEX? Cost and ease of use make PEX very attractive.
Why the preference for copper BOF? What advantage over PEX? Cost and ease of use make PEX very attractive.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
I've used CPVC for some renovations in my previous home. It's good stuff and easy to use. But I had a "bad experience" once with it. While the system was pressurized, it got a strike from an errant board being swung around, and the shock cracked the CPVC and made for a big wet mess. Had that happened to PEX, it would have absorbed the impact and shrugged it off. Not really a reason to shy away from CPVC, but just an admitted anecdote.
Why the preference for copper BOF? What advantage over PEX? Cost and ease of use make PEX very attractive.
It's just my preference. ANYONE can do PEX! You know like some people do things the easiest way they can to save money and make the job go faster. I'm all about that....sometimes. First, I love working with copper. If you would understand my POV about my trade, I am the master manipulator of copper, steel, pvc, pyrex, cpvc, abs, etc. I used to love waking up EVERY morning to go to work. Every day was a challenge in the pipe fitter world for me. And I love challenges. In short, a copper piping job is a thing of beauty when complete. And, I used to instill these qualities in the students I used to teach in my ABC pipe fitting classes. To me, pipe fitting is an art and I'm a Rembrant!
I've used CPVC for some renovations in my previous home. It's good stuff and easy to use. But I had a "bad experience" once with it. While the system was pressurized, it got a strike from an errant board being swung around, and the shock cracked the CPVC and made for a big wet mess. Had that happened to PEX, it would have absorbed the impact and shrugged it off. Not really a reason to shy away from CPVC, but just an admitted anecdote.
Why the preference for copper BOF? What advantage over PEX? Cost and ease of use make PEX very attractive.
It's just my preference. ANYONE can do PEX! You know like some people do things the easiest way they can to save money and make the job go faster. I'm all about that....sometimes. First, I love working with copper. If you would understand my POV about my trade, I am the master manipulator of copper, steel, pvc, pyrex, cpvc, abs, etc. I used to love waking up EVERY morning to go to work. Every day was a challenge in the pipe fitter world for me. And I love challenges. In short, a copper piping job is a thing of beauty when complete. And, I used to instill these qualities in the students I used to teach in my ABC pipe fitting classes. To me, pipe fitting is an art and I'm a Rembrant!
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