Are these Pex lines at risk of disconnecting? What's wrong with this water heater?

Hillbilly Deluxe said:
LOL, I love these comments today.


Because everyone at the cocktail party is bragging about sending their kid to trade school right? Keep on thinking that "replacing a water heater" should be cheap and $600-700!!!

LOL
Click to expand...
For the independent tradesmen
Vehicle maintenance, gas, insurance
Medical insurance for himself and family and possible his employees
Business insurance. It’s a tough world out there. I rather pay the independent guy who’s honest and dependable rather then some huge multimillion dollar franchise that’s dishonest and their techs look like slobs from a hangover and are trained to oversell every job.
 
Hillbilly Deluxe said:
LOL, I love these comments today.


Because everyone at the cocktail party is bragging about sending their kid to trade school right? Keep on thinking that "replacing a water heater" should be cheap and $600-700!!!

LOL
Click to expand...
It's the new price gouging. I used to have plumbers install water heaters for around $200, basically took them about 2 hours. Now the new normal is just to charge some highly inflated charge like $1k as a flat rate even though the install is still only 2 hours and their hourly rate is anywhere from $110-$150, that still works out to $220-$300 just charging by the hour. I just have a couple handyman do mine these days, they tend to take longer as they don't keep anything in stock so a home depot run and parts takes more like 4 hours but it clocks in under $200.
 
I just replaced my hot water heater last week. It was from 2005. I changed the anode rod in it twice. Didn’t hav3van issue until my neighbor ran over my water meter with a bobcat, and broke the line on the house side. After he made the repair, suddenly the hot water had almost no pressure. I drained it, took almost two hours to fill. Ended up buying a crappy new one at Home Depot, but of course, it was 1.5 inches bigger in diameter and 1 inch taller than my old one (lowes one was sane measurements) so, having to re-engineer the closet space, I had to cut the pressure relief drain line to get it to fit. I then temp installed a pipe to flood the garage if it blew up instead of the walls in the house. Ended up having to call a plumber to fix that part, and bring my piping up to date. Dude got me fir $375, but I’ll admit, it looks like a work of art now. My piping was all copper, like the copper in the OPs pics, but mine has a large ground wire clamped to the pipe. I asked the plumber what was with that, and he told me it was to prevent galvanic corrosion on the pipe joints from dissimilar metals. The good thing is he thought my ghetto setup was pretty good idea considering. Bad thing was, finding out the clog on the inlet was somethimg that got into the pipe when it broke, it went to the hot water in line first.
 
Man, pex with copper and sharkbite connections. It's like the whole thing was assembled by a Project Farm follower.

I'd recommend a new water heater and get that pex and sharkbites out of there. You don't want it springing a leak. What if you're not home or on vacation...

I made the mistake of calling a "plumber" several years back when my pressure valve was allowing a constant flow of water. Almost $3,000 for a $700 water heater installed that I didn't need by a local company with fish symbols on the back of all their vehicles :LOL: . I think the fish stood for "baiting" customers? I watched youtube, practiced soldering on some copper pipe and replaced the $29 valve myself. 5 years later the water heater started leaking and I replaced it, expansion tank, union and all.
 
Propflux01 said:
I just replaced my hot water heater last week. It was from 2005. I changed the anode rod in it twice. Didn’t hav3van issue until my neighbor ran over my water meter with a bobcat, and broke the line on the house side. After he made the repair, suddenly the hot water had almost no pressure. I drained it, took almost two hours to fill. Ended up buying a crappy new one at Home Depot, but of course, it was 1.5 inches bigger in diameter and 1 inch taller than my old one (lowes one was sane measurements) so, having to re-engineer the closet space, I had to cut the pressure relief drain line to get it to fit. I then temp installed a pipe to flood the garage if it blew up instead of the walls in the house. Ended up having to call a plumber to fix that part, and bring my piping up to date. Dude got me fir $375, but I’ll admit, it looks like a work of art now. My piping was all copper, like the copper in the OPs pics, but mine has a large ground wire clamped to the pipe. I asked the plumber what was with that, and he told me it was to prevent galvanic corrosion on the pipe joints from dissimilar metals. The good thing is he thought my ghetto setup was pretty good idea considering. Bad thing was, finding out the clog on the inlet was somethimg that got into the pipe when it broke, it went to the hot water in line first.
Click to expand...

Honestly, $375 is a steal to fix and make sure everything is up to code.
I am sure he provided all the pipes and connectors.
 
Schandyman said:
Plumbing supply houses sell better quality water heaters then depot and lowes
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That's what everyone thinks, but there's only a few makers of water heaters and they supply everyone with just different branding. The big box stores like Home Depot might get slightly cheaper models with plastic drain valves instead of metal ones, but you pay a lot more for the ones at the supply house. They just don't have the volume that Home Depot does to drive prices down. The supply houses are just convenient in that they have everything you need for the job so it's one trip and you can call it all out and they'll pick out the parts for you. But on a big job, Home Depot probably only has 80-90% of the parts you need, but it's probably anywhere from 20-50% cheaper than the supply house even after the supply house discount. Plumbers don't care because they're not paying the bill. I just make my plumber go to home depot, he's a small one man operation so he just does what I tell him.
 
Schandyman said:
Plumbing supply houses sell better quality water heaters then depot and lowes
Click to expand...
That's a myth. There's only a few actual makers of tanks and many brands to choose from.. I would bet the only difference between an expensive one and the cheaper one is the amount of insulation and extra warranty coverage.
 
Wolf359 said:
That's what everyone thinks, but there's only a few makers of water heaters and they supply everyone with just different branding. The big box stores like Home Depot might get slightly cheaper models with plastic drain valves instead of metal ones, but you pay a lot more for the ones at the supply house. They just don't have the volume that Home Depot does to drive prices down. The supply houses are just convenient in that they have everything you need for the job so it's one trip and you can call it all out and they'll pick out the parts for you. But on a big job, Home Depot probably only has 80-90% of the parts you need, but it's probably anywhere from 20-50% cheaper than the supply house even after the supply house discount. Plumbers don't care because they're not paying the bill. I just make my plumber go to home depot, he's a small one man operation so he just does what I tell him.
Click to expand...
I know of a one man show plumber he has a small chihuahua
 
JMJNet said:
Honestly, $375 is a steal to fix and make sure everything is up to code.
I am sure he provided all the pipes and connectors.
Click to expand...
Yes, provided everything. Expansion tank, lines, and new shutoff valve and flex lines. And like I said, if there Was such a thing as plumbing porn, this would be it. I’m almost tempted to leave the door off! Lol.
 
Hillbilly Deluxe said:
LOL, I love these comments today.


Because everyone at the cocktail party is bragging about sending their kid to trade school right? Keep on thinking that "replacing a water heater" should be cheap and $600-700!!!

LOL
Click to expand...
if I can do it in an hour it shouldnt cost me1k labor from a plumber. I'm sure my install isnt as pretty.

now if its plumbing at the nuclear power plant or submarine sure.

just to clarify you are talking 600-700 labor or 600-700 installed?

Labor prices
I already had tank drained and disconnected.
the cheapest plumber wanted 700labor for a conventional electric install which is about 20min work.
wanted 1400 for a heat pump install.. only difference from regular electric is one pvc drain line that I already had.
power vent gas install labor was 1700(iirc around 3k total).. already had gas line within 2ft.(correct size and capped T too)
Tankless electric was on special for a mere 3500 all in.+tax.
(quoted in house.. asked over phone but they had to send someone out)

I went to home site and got conventional electric 50gal for 700 installed.
2 months later I scored my heat pump/hybrid electric heater for 200$ and installed it myself
sold the 2 month old water heater for 225(iirc) and claimed the federal tax credit which made the
new hybrid heater cost - money.
 
Last edited:
Rand said:
if I can do it in an hour it shouldnt cost me1k labor from a plumber. I'm sure my install isnt as pretty.

now if its plumbing at the nuclear power plant or submarine sure.

just to clarify you are talking 600-700 labor or 600-700 installed?

Labor prices
I already had tank drained and disconnected.
the cheapest plumber wanted 700labor for a conventional electric install which is about 20min work.
wanted 1400 for a heat pump install.. only difference from regular electric is one pvc drain line that I already had.
power vent gas install labor was 1700(iirc around 3k total).. already had gas line within 2ft.(correct size and capped T too)
Tankless electric was on special for a mere 3500 all in.+tax.
(quoted in house.. asked over phone but they had to send someone out)

I went to home site and got conventional electric 50gal for 700 installed.
2 months later I scored my heat pump/hybrid electric heater for 200$ and installed it myself
sold the 2 month old water heater for 225(iirc) and claimed the federal tax credit which made the
new hybrid heater cost - money.
Click to expand...

Oh, so since you can do it, why have you called several places that do it professionally to have it quoted? To waste their time?

In your figure of an hour, did you include:

Overhead of the company that includes a building, building insurance, utilities, a person or software to answer the phone, maintenance, taxes and upkeep of the building?

The cost of a van or truck the Plumber drives, it's maintenance, insurance, tag/taxes?

The cost of continuing education for the staff?

Legal Expenses of the Company?

The Plumber's salary, health insurance, vacation, dental and workman's comp premiums?

The Plumber's FICA taxes that are the employer's responsibility?

The company's liability insurance, in case the plumber breaks something in your home?

The plumber's drive time from the office to your home?



The answer is.... NO, you didn't. I DIY everything I can around the house and with my 4 vehicles. What I DON'T do is question how much a company that I have solicited the work to might charge. I know a little bit about what it costs to operate a business. Then you have to deal with potential customers who complain about everything.
 
Propflux01 said:
mine has a large ground wire clamped to the pipe. I asked the plumber what was with that, and he told me it was to prevent galvanic corrosion on the pipe joints from dissimilar metals.
Click to expand...

He gave you that answer because he's a plumber.

An electrician would have told you that's the ground wire from your electric service, and it probably runs to the ground/neutral bar on your load center.
 
Hillbilly Deluxe said:
Oh, so since you can do it, why have you called several places that do it professionally to have it quoted? To waste their time?

In your figure of an hour, did you include:

Overhead of the company that includes a building, building insurance, utilities, a person or software to answer the phone, maintenance, taxes and upkeep of the building?

The cost of a van or truck the Plumber drives, it's maintenance, insurance, tag/taxes?

The cost of continuing education for the staff?

Legal Expenses of the Company?

The Plumber's salary, health insurance, vacation, dental and workman's comp premiums?

The Plumber's FICA taxes that are the employer's responsibility?

The company's liability insurance, in case the plumber breaks something in your home?

The plumber's drive time from the office to your home?



The answer is.... NO, you didn't. I DIY everything I can around the house and with my 4 vehicles. What I DON'T do is question how much a company that I have solicited the work to might charge. I know a little bit about what it costs to operate a business. Then you have to deal with potential customers who complain about everything.
Click to expand...
And I am sure that the one hour install time includes going to the store and picking up the water heater, transporting it to the home, getting the new one into the basement and removing and disposing of the old one. And heaven help him if there is a warranty problem. He will spend a lot of time on the phone trying to get help and figuring out what is wrong. And he will have to wait three or four days to get the part. And if the unit leaks under warranty he will have to removed the water heater, take it to the store and repeat the entire process of installation. I have seen this scenario many times in my career and the customer then swears they will never go through that again. If the unit is purchased and installed by a professional than all of that is done by the plumber while the homeowner sits on their patio sipping a beer.
 
Hillbilly Deluxe said:
Oh, so since you can do it, why have you called several places that do it professionally to have it quoted? To waste their time?

In your figure of an hour, did you include:

Overhead of the company that includes a building, building insurance, utilities, a person or software to answer the phone, maintenance, taxes and upkeep of the building?

The cost of a van or truck the Plumber drives, it's maintenance, insurance, tag/taxes?

The cost of continuing education for the staff?

Legal Expenses of the Company?

The Plumber's salary, health insurance, vacation, dental and workman's comp premiums?

The Plumber's FICA taxes that are the employer's responsibility?

The company's liability insurance, in case the plumber breaks something in your home?

The plumber's drive time from the office to your home?



The answer is.... NO, you didn't. I DIY everything I can around the house and with my 4 vehicles. What I DON'T do is question how much a company that I have solicited the work to might charge. I know a little bit about what it costs to operate a business. Then you have to deal with potential customers who complain about everything.
Click to expand...
I think you guys are missing the point. They have flat rate labor hours. The regular plumber I use is about $110 an hour. Other plumbers are quoting $1k to install a water heater that in the past the plumber used to charge about 2 hours of labor for. The flat rate pricing to install something is just way out of line for regular by the hour rates. As for warranty, those water heaters also come with a warranty and the water heater manufacture will pay the plumber for warranty work. It's usually so low, it's hard to find anyone who will take it though.
 
Love to see someone completely drain, uninstall, remove the unit, pick up a new one, get all the required fittings and pieces, install properly and to code, and remove and properly dispose of the old unit in 1 hour.

My last water heater had a crew of two guys show up, with a truck equipped with all the necessary fittings and equipment, along with a second truck that delivered the new water heater and removed the old unit with a gentleman driving it. I called and that day it was done and taken care of.

Not sure what anyone thinks an hour of labor for three men, two trucks (one fully equipped with tools and fittings), supplying a heater, disposing of the old one, pulling the permit, and covering overhead and insurance on the business is... but it sure isn't what some people seem to think.

Criticize the pricing model if you want. I shopped my install with mutliple suppliers - some were way out there and prey on the uninformed. Others were pretty close to each other.

Find the honest ones in the trades and then keep working with them - and it doesn't come for free.
 
MNgopher said:
Love to see someone completely drain, uninstall, remove the unit, pick up a new one, get all the required fittings and pieces, install properly and to code, and remove and properly dispose of the old unit in 1 hour.

My last water heater had a crew of two guys show up, with a truck equipped with all the necessary fittings and equipment, along with a second truck that delivered the new water heater and removed the old unit with a gentleman driving it. I called and that day it was done and taken care of.

Not sure what anyone thinks an hour of labor for three men, two trucks (one fully equipped with tools and fittings), supplying a heater, disposing of the old one, pulling the permit, and covering overhead and insurance on the business is... but it sure isn't what some people seem to think.

Criticize the pricing model if you want. I shopped my install with mutliple suppliers - some were way out there and prey on the uninformed. Others were pretty close to each other.

Find the honest ones in the trades and then keep working with them - and it doesn't come for free.
Click to expand...
I've seen plumbers do it as a one man job. Much easier with 2 people but the main issue with one person is just moving it, but if they have a two wheeler, it cuts way down on the need for 2 people and the one plumber better be in good shape to move one water heater by himself. The swap in and out takes an hour but running to the store adds that other hour or two.
 
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