Reliability of modern Turbo engines

[pezzy669]

I think the mass application of turbo's will end up fine....eventually. As soon as Suzy or Ken who are used to being able to go 20k miles between oil changes on their XYZ 2.4/2.5 4 banger appliance end up blowing their first turbo engine due to lack of oil changes they will learn real quick. We will have to get through an entire generation of sludged up turbo engines before the Camry/Accord masses learn.

In reality with OLM's I have witnessed most of my non-car friends bring it to the dealership when whatever light or warning pops up. Only abuse I have seen was a friend with a '15 or '16 Cruze 1.4T, overheated at 68k miles and she drove it until it shut off with smoke pouring out of the hood. Recall repair, after they fixed her up the turbo barked on start and it was loud during ops too. She fried that engine but somehow its still plugging along.

 

[MarcS]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
BMWs are usually pretty robust mechanically and I'd trust a BMW to survive really hard running over a Ford.


I suspect Ford has way more turbocharged cars doing severe service than BMW by a wide margin. There are over a million ecoboosted f150s on the road, the ecoboost is also a popular option in their transit vans and police vehicles. Compare that to the small percentage of BMW drivers that really push their cars to extremes and I don't even think it's a contest

 

[PeterPolyol]

Wow we certainly have some big Ford 'fans' in this thread. Just ignoring the chronology of the fact that Ford is a follower, not a pioneer in this sector, there's no question in my mind that the N54/55 and N20 engines are objectively the better quality engines on multiple fronts. Not to take anything away from Ford at all, but it is what it is.

And playing into fdcg's post, the ancillaries and accessories attached to these engines, well it's probably a wash between the two

 

[4WD]

Aside from industrial/commercial engines - In road cars that is, MB has been at it a long time ...

 

[Delta]

Originally Posted By: dareo
Well, if you ask me, the 1.8TSI and BMW's turbo offerings are totally different. VW's mill is designed for mass production, high MPG, and reliability before ultimate power. BMW is all about the performance first. Hopefully the 1.8TSI will live a long trouble free life. It is a lowish compression short stroke turbo engine that on paper looks great.


I think you'll be fine. Between a water cooled exhaust manifold and circulation pumps for the turbo after shutoff they've seemed to do their homework with these. Unlike the previous generation 1.8T. Not sure how well it will hold up to neglect; you know someone is going to push the maintenance and then claim it was the biggest pile o junk out there...

 

[KrisZ]

One thing is for sure, turbocharged engines a much less tolerant to bad maintenance habits, so buying used will be more tricky with them.

As far as BMW 335, I would find out if that's the model with the electric water pump. These are about $1k to replace and they will fail.

 

[NGRhodes]

Other factors, such as design, build quality and correct servicing are more significant.
My brother has a 2007 Ford 1.8 TDCI that has done 180K miles with zero issues.
My Dads 3 years old Nissan turbo Diesel needed a new turbo (under warranty), having only had dealer servicing at correct intervals.

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted By: jrcowboys
Guys;

Now that everything seems to be going turbo, how do you think reliability of such engines is impacted? I'm not talking about the turbo itself. The effective compression is increased, possibly causing more wear, etc. Also, with direct injection there is the buildup on intake valves.

Thoughts? Note: I'm looking at a 2012 BMW 335 with approx 85K mileage. I know there were earlier issues with the high pressure fuel pump.

JR


That has the N55 engine, turbo should be fine, it is not like the faulty earlier N54 twin turbo engines that had turbos with the wastegate issues.

I would just change the oil much more often than the OLM recommends. Our local BMW dealers recommend 8000 km, I change mine every 6000 km.

I would think BMW has the turbo thing figured out now, every single BMW sells now is turbo charged.

 

[WyrTwister]

Reading this thread has brought several things to mind .

First , I do not own a turbo engine and I am very unsure about them for a person that hopes to drive it " forever " . I have no plans to buy into this technology any time soon .

Second , I see a BMW as a potential money pit . Our oldest son had a BMW . He is not a DIY car guy . He found an independent mechanic to take care of the BMW . Not the dealership .

Things rolled along & he took the car in for something or other . The mechanic advised him , he would trade it off rather than sink the $$$$ into repairs . Do , that is what our son did , traded it in on a Lincoln .

Next thing that you all have discussed is oil changes & general maintenance . When I was a teenager , I read Hot Rod magazine . They said there were 2 basic variations of turbo . Those that used engine oil for lubrication ( and maybe cooling ) and those that had their own oil system independent of engine oil .

" Hot Rod " recommended the latter . Simply because the turbo did not have to rely on the " loose nut behind the steering wheel " to change engine oil regularly .

I am guessing most of the current crop of turbo system use engine oil ?

This brings up another non-turbo issue involving oil change diligence . It seems the current crop of engines , Variable Valve Timing is pretty common . I read that engine oil is use as a hydraulic fluid to make the cam phaser function , usually with electric / electronic control ? I suspect dirty / sludgy oil would play havoc with such a system ?

There are probably more systems that are less tolerant of " bad oil " than I can not think of . Compared to equivalent systems , in older designs .

Oil & filter are cheap insurance .

God bless
Wyr

 

[WyrTwister]

Another oil related issue , I think .

I seem to recall that some engines , with timing chains , use a " shoe " to tension the timing chain ? Mabe spring based or maybe based on engine oil pressure ?

I may be wrong about this ?

But , if my memory serves , dirty / sludgy oil couls foul / mess up such a system .

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Ford has been putting DI turbo engines ...for some years now. Some of these engines are in the same league as this BMW for specific output.


Yes, but Ford's testing & reliability is proven.

The EcoBoost F150 seemed to be a joke at first.... but we were all proven wrong with that.




Not all of us....

 

[spasm3]

My coworker has a ecoboost f150 2 years old, less than 50k and mostly highway miles. Its in the shop for a timing chain replacement under warranty. Maintains it with mobil 1.

I was going to ask if this was a common issue on the ecoboost, or is his just an isolated failure?

 

[UncleDave]

Chain stretch causing lack of timing seems to be an issue on some.

Similar DOHC 4 valve design such as the titan are known to be hard on oil, and lots of guys question the OLM at stick to 5K or so intervals if towing heavily.

UD

 

[dlundblad]

Her 2002 Volvo has a turbo and so far, overall the car has been pretty issue free. Aside from wear and tear and PM items, it's just needed a fuel pump, throttle body and a DNP switch. Thankfully the Bosch OE equivs. were available for everything but the DNP switch. That Volvo stamp on a Bosch part makes stuff $$$. Lol

To my knowledge, the turbo is original. They aren't that expensive really so if it breaks, I'll fix it.

 

[dlundblad]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Originally Posted By: Linctex
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Ford has been putting DI turbo engines ...for some years now. Some of these engines are in the same league as this BMW for specific output.


Yes, but Ford's testing & reliability is proven.

The EcoBoost F150 seemed to be a joke at first.... but we were all proven wrong with that.




Not all of us....



What happened here? This was probably when they spec'd a 5w20 for the poor things.

I kid, I kid..

 

[UncleDave]

piston skirt broke in cylinder # 4 @ 62K.

Mike Rowe took the day off.

UD

 

[SteveSRT8]

As is typical the Internet is awash in anecdotal evidence. But everything points to the Egobooster's basic reliability. Whenever ANY mfgr makes a million copies of an engine some will blow up.

Can anyone provide any real failure data other than one or two they know of personally?

 

[MarcS]

Originally Posted By: WyrTwister
Next thing that you all have discussed is oil changes & general maintenance . When I was a teenager , I read Hot Rod magazine . They said there were 2 basic variations of turbo . Those that used engine oil for lubrication ( and maybe cooling ) and those that had their own oil system independent of engine oil .

" Hot Rod " recommended the latter . Simply because the turbo did not have to rely on the " loose nut behind the steering wheel " to change engine oil regularly .

I am guessing most of the current crop of turbo system use engine oil ?


Yes, but I'd wager that your average motor oil of today is more robust than whatever specialty oil was being used independently for the turbo back then.

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
piston skirt broke in cylinder # 4 @ 62K.

Mike Rowe took the day off.

UD

Subaru's making engines for Ford now?

 

[nthach]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
One thing is for sure, turbocharged engines a much less tolerant to bad maintenance habits, so buying used will be more tricky with them.



It's going to be interesting - Honda is calling for thin oils in the next Accord and that will offer a turbo motor. 0W-16 might be better for lubricating the turbo's CHRA(bearing and shaft) but ILSAC-compliant oils have lower NOACK values than ACEA-compliant oils. Turbos don't like oil coking. The whole trend of ACEA going towards thinner oils because of start/stop and the trucking industry shifting in that same direction will mean oils will need to develop.

Toyota is backing off with turbos on the new Camry, the latest Lexus turbos are running 0W-20 - looks like Toyota designed a separate intercooler/turbo cooling loop to help keep things cool, seems like Toyota was worried about turbo longevity and keeping the oil from coking is always a good thing.
http://www.natef.org/NATEF/media/NATEFMedia/2015 ASEIEA Conference/Inside-Lexus-Turbo.pdf