Plug in hybrid to power homes during peak hours?

[PandaBear]

So far at least the California grid has the following problems:

1) excessive solar during day time
2) expensive peak power rate when solar goes down as fossil fuel cannot ramp ip very fast
3) battery is expensive so you can’t just build a lot of it for EV or grid storage
4) EV still has range and charging speed problem
5) sometimes gasoline is cheaper than electricity and sometimes electricity is cheaper than gas

Since vehicles to grid technology is making progress, why can’t we come up with gasoline to grid to address some of this? As long as the garage is open or the owner is paid (gas refill card plus a per kwh cash), or generates just enough for his own need, I see this as a great way to address our grid problem at a cheaper cost.

You don’t end up wasting too much electricity or gas, or buy too much battery to waste, or ramp up too much peaker plant output to waste, or dump the solar, etc. It is not any technological challenge we don’t already have a solution for either.

 

[Passport1]

The problem California (and other places) have is feverishly working on ways to warp technology to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

 

[JeffKeryk]

So far at least the California grid has the following problems:

1) excessive solar during day time
2) expensive peak power rate when solar goes down as fossil fuel cannot ramp ip very fast
3) battery is expensive so you can’t just build a lot of it for EV or grid storage
4) EV still has range and charging speed problem
5) sometimes gasoline is cheaper than electricity and sometimes electricity is cheaper than gas

Since vehicles to grid technology is making progress, why can’t we come up with gasoline to grid to address some of this? As long as the garage is open or the owner is paid (gas refill card plus a per kwh cash), or generates just enough for his own need, I see this as a great way to address our grid problem at a cheaper cost.

You don’t end up wasting too much electricity or gas, or buy too much battery to waste, or ramp up too much peaker plant output to waste, or dump the solar, etc. It is not any technological challenge we don’t already have a solution for either.

Tesla is now offering a Charge on Solar function, but you need a Tesla Powerwall or something; not sure. I expect this functionality to continue to develop.

 

[y_p_w]

I always heard that the advantage of solar was that it produced a lot of power when there was peak demand for HVAC and home A/C. But I suppose for people who were away from home during the day, having some sort of battery system would be advantageous. With the use of efficient lighting, I'm thinking that's not even the big electric use. When I had 100W GE Soft Whites and maybe 10 of them in the house, that was using a lot. Not seeing it with 6W LEDs.

As much hand wringing as there is that EV charging is going to devastate our electric grid, I'm not seeing it since any reasonable plan is going to assume the majority of EV charging will be off peak.

 

[eljefino]

-- It's less environmentally friendly compared to an actual power plant with scrubbers on the smoke stacks.

-- I wouldn't want to add wear and tear to my car's combustion engine to make electricity I should be getting by either paying for it from the PoCo or receiving it off my rooftop solar.

 

[oil pan 4]

So far at least the California grid has the following problems:

1) excessive solar during day time
2) expensive peak power rate when solar goes down as fossil fuel cannot ramp ip very fast
3) battery is expensive so you can’t just build a lot of it for EV or grid storage
4) EV still has range and charging speed problem
5) sometimes gasoline is cheaper than electricity and sometimes electricity is cheaper than gas

Since vehicles to grid technology is making progress, why can’t we come up with gasoline to grid to address some of this? As long as the garage is open or the owner is paid (gas refill card plus a per kwh cash), or generates just enough for his own need, I see this as a great way to address our grid problem at a cheaper cost.

You don’t end up wasting too much electricity or gas, or buy too much battery to waste, or ramp up too much peaker plant output to waste, or dump the solar, etc. It is not any technological challenge we don’t already have a solution for either.

Exactly like all the problems I have been reading about in Australia.


Best case scenario for a gasoline generator is about 10kwh per gallon.
That would be on a belt drive generator running about 2,200 to 2,500rpm or wherever bshp peaks at and run it full load.

 

[eljefino]

I think my Prius Prime can squeeze about 16-17kwh from a gallon of gas but it's still a dumb idea.

 

[Cujet]

-- It's less environmentally friendly compared to an actual power plant with scrubbers on the smoke stacks.

-- I wouldn't want to add wear and tear to my car's combustion engine to make electricity I should be getting by either paying for it from the PoCo or receiving it off my rooftop solar.

It is entirely possible that the automotive powerplant ends up at 41% thermally efficient, is exceptionally clean meeting the PZEV requirements, and has a better than 92% efficient generator. Easily beating the overall grid efficiency.

Of course, natural gas burns quite clean, and even without exhaust treatment, is mostly water vapor and CO2. I will note though, that on a drive past the NY combined cycle power plant, there was a day when something was quite wrong and the pollution level was quite odorous and visually evident.

 

[LenZee]

The problem California (and other places) have is feverishly working on ways to warp technology to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

It worked to improve their air quality (smog) in the 70's.

 

[PandaBear]

Tesla is now offering a Charge on Solar function, but you need a Tesla Powerwall or something; not sure. I expect this functionality to continue to develop.

This still does not prevent the problem of going through a battery or two batteries. So you have battery depreciation and aging of 2 instead of just 1. I guess you can say it is more efficient than just wasting it or let the peaker plant run idle elsewhere, but the powerwall still cost a lot.

 

[PandaBear]

I always heard that the advantage of solar was that it produced a lot of power when there was peak demand for HVAC and home A/C. But I suppose for people who were away from home during the day, having some sort of battery system would be advantageous. With the use of efficient lighting, I'm thinking that's not even the big electric use. When I had 100W GE Soft Whites and maybe 10 of them in the house, that was using a lot. Not seeing it with 6W LEDs.

As much hand wringing as there is that EV charging is going to devastate our electric grid, I'm not seeing it since any reasonable plan is going to assume the majority of EV charging will be off peak.

It does produce the most when the sun is brightest, but if you install a lot of it, so that it produce more than the AC need, and not all building are cooled by solar, then you will still have thermal mass to cool after dark somewhere on the grid (say a building without solar roof top has an attic that soaked up 200kwh worth of heat to cool down somewhere else on the grid, after the sun goes down.

Nobody talks about LED lighting anymore, basically the only major electric usage these days is the AC and heat pump.

 

[y_p_w]

It does produce the most when the sun is brightest, but if you install a lot of it, so that it produce more than the AC need, and not all building are cooled by solar, then you will still have thermal mass to cool after dark somewhere on the grid (say a building without solar roof top has an attic that soaked up 200kwh worth of heat to cool down somewhere else on the grid, after the sun goes down.

Nobody talks about LED lighting anymore, basically the only major electric usage these days is the AC and heat pump.

I was thinking about this when I was in parking lot parked under a solar array canopy. That was great during a sunny day when otherwise my car was going to be baking.