Run !
Opinion on Purchase of 2000 BMW 323i Sport Wagon
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He's 28 and very responsible. He wants a wagon for work. This would be his second vehicle. His real ride is the 2009 IS350 in my sig.
This is reassuring that it is not his DD.
If you look @ the wholesale value of german cars, a newer car with 1/2 the miles and probably 5 years less age could be had for maybe 2.5K more.
Personally I would go with a reliable vehicle like
http://www.abwautos.com/2013-Toyota-Matrix-L-Naugatuck-Connecticut-06770/5956160
This will probably make close to 250K without a 1/10 of the repairs already done to the car you are looking @
He's 28 and very responsible. He wants a wagon for work. This would be his second vehicle. His real ride is the 2009 IS350 in my sig.
This is reassuring that it is not his DD.
If you look @ the wholesale value of german cars, a newer car with 1/2 the miles and probably 5 years less age could be had for maybe 2.5K more.
Personally I would go with a reliable vehicle like
http://www.abwautos.com/2013-Toyota-Matrix-L-Naugatuck-Connecticut-06770/5956160
This will probably make close to 250K without a 1/10 of the repairs already done to the car you are looking @
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Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:
He's 28 and very responsible. He wants a wagon for work. This would be his second vehicle. His real ride is the 2009 IS350 in my sig.
This is reassuring that it is not his DD.
If you look @ the wholesale value of german cars, a newer car with 1/2 the miles and probably 5 years less age could be had for maybe 2.5K more.
Personally I would go with a reliable vehicle like
http://www.abwautos.com/2013-Toyota-Matrix-L-Naugatuck-Connecticut-06770/5956160
This will probably make close to 250K without a 1/10 of the repairs already done to the car you are looking @
+1. I won't argue that the Germans build nice, well driving and many times luxurious cars, but they aren't known for going 200K+ miles without issues.
Quote:
He's 28 and very responsible. He wants a wagon for work. This would be his second vehicle. His real ride is the 2009 IS350 in my sig.
This is reassuring that it is not his DD.
If you look @ the wholesale value of german cars, a newer car with 1/2 the miles and probably 5 years less age could be had for maybe 2.5K more.
Personally I would go with a reliable vehicle like
http://www.abwautos.com/2013-Toyota-Matrix-L-Naugatuck-Connecticut-06770/5956160
This will probably make close to 250K without a 1/10 of the repairs already done to the car you are looking @
+1. I won't argue that the Germans build nice, well driving and many times luxurious cars, but they aren't known for going 200K+ miles without issues.
Originally Posted By: gregk24
I think that repair history tells you all you need to know.
That it was well cared for and will serve him well into the future?
I think that repair history tells you all you need to know.
That it was well cared for and will serve him well into the future?
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Originally Posted By: rooflessVW
Yep, valve cover leaking at the rear of the head and oil filter housing gasket leaking from the front are what I would suspect. Factor about $35ish in parts and 3 hours for your first time.
Yep. This is probably the case...I wouldn't worry about the leaks.
It sounds like the previous owner has been meticulous but that seems like a lot of miles. If he'd take 4 and it's really clean it might be OK.
The quality of the replacement parts really counts as well. A friend of mine had serious engine problems resulting from an aftermarket pcv assembly.
BMW aren't terrible cars and are great to drive....but they scare me.
A Mazda 6 wagon will hold its own....be newer and probably be less of a gamble for around the same $$ just watch for rust.
Yep, valve cover leaking at the rear of the head and oil filter housing gasket leaking from the front are what I would suspect. Factor about $35ish in parts and 3 hours for your first time.
Yep. This is probably the case...I wouldn't worry about the leaks.
It sounds like the previous owner has been meticulous but that seems like a lot of miles. If he'd take 4 and it's really clean it might be OK.
The quality of the replacement parts really counts as well. A friend of mine had serious engine problems resulting from an aftermarket pcv assembly.
BMW aren't terrible cars and are great to drive....but they scare me.
A Mazda 6 wagon will hold its own....be newer and probably be less of a gamble for around the same $$ just watch for rust.
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Don't buy it unless you want to spend $2000-$4000 a year on failure after failure.
Originally Posted By: SatinSilver
A Prelude to a station wagon for your son? Maybe a newer Prelude that hasn't been modded, An RSX - CarMax has them, Even an Accord coupe - V6 for performance. Kind of a newer version of the Lude. I'd skip the wagon.
A Prelude is to a 3 series wagon as a fox is to a coyote.
Any 323i would jump all over any US market Prelude.
To the OP, any sixteen year old car that looks as good in and out as you describe this one to has obviously been well looked after. Simply having a good detail done can't erase years of neglect.
140K or so of service documentation reflects the same.
As long as you and your son understand that this isn't a Camry, I think that this car would be a solid bet.
BMWs aren't necessarily costly to own or unreliable, contrary to popular belief among Toyota owners who've never even driven a BMW much less owned one.
A Prelude to a station wagon for your son? Maybe a newer Prelude that hasn't been modded, An RSX - CarMax has them, Even an Accord coupe - V6 for performance. Kind of a newer version of the Lude. I'd skip the wagon.
A Prelude is to a 3 series wagon as a fox is to a coyote.
Any 323i would jump all over any US market Prelude.
To the OP, any sixteen year old car that looks as good in and out as you describe this one to has obviously been well looked after. Simply having a good detail done can't erase years of neglect.
140K or so of service documentation reflects the same.
As long as you and your son understand that this isn't a Camry, I think that this car would be a solid bet.
BMWs aren't necessarily costly to own or unreliable, contrary to popular belief among Toyota owners who've never even driven a BMW much less owned one.
I don't see why everyone is screaming "RUN!"
The stuff that has been done is typical preventative maintenance, replacing parts as they wear, instead of once they've failed and caused a multitude of other expensive issues.
Same with the cooling system, a refresh every 60K-100K much like a timing belt and associated accessories. Nothing there about hoses or radiator, so I'd double-check for any signs of impending failure.
If you know where to shop online, parts for these cars aren't dreadfully expensive. What's expensive is "hiring a man" to actually service the car... Which isn't a problem for a BMW, its a problem with any car you have today.
My suggestion to anyone is to learn the basics of your car, so at the very least, you can change fluids and do basic work. Most of the older BMW's, including the E46, are quite easy to work on.
The main thing with BMW's is look after them, and they do tend to look after you. This vehicle has a known service history for what, about 150K miles? That's an incredible start. These are not older import or domestic vehicles that tolerate neglect to a further extent. If this car had been somewhat neglected, I'd be suggesting you run, too. You'd be paying for a fair bit of servicing fairly sooner after.
Going by what others are saying, it sounds like the price is too steep in US terms.
In Australian terms, that price would just get you a good E36, let alone an E46! I paid about AU$6K (US$4,559) in 2013 for my 1993 E36.
My other suggestion is a Pre-Purchase Inspection by a reputable Indy, preferably one with experience working on BMWs. Ask friends with European cars where they get theirs taken (Okay, ignore them if they say JiffyLube - that contradicts my previous posts elsewhere, but you need a proper opinion on this). Doesn't sound like there are any hidden niggles, but if there are, this should reveal them. A test-drive is also a good idea, make sure everything works.
The stuff that has been done is typical preventative maintenance, replacing parts as they wear, instead of once they've failed and caused a multitude of other expensive issues.
Same with the cooling system, a refresh every 60K-100K much like a timing belt and associated accessories. Nothing there about hoses or radiator, so I'd double-check for any signs of impending failure.
If you know where to shop online, parts for these cars aren't dreadfully expensive. What's expensive is "hiring a man" to actually service the car... Which isn't a problem for a BMW, its a problem with any car you have today.
My suggestion to anyone is to learn the basics of your car, so at the very least, you can change fluids and do basic work. Most of the older BMW's, including the E46, are quite easy to work on.
The main thing with BMW's is look after them, and they do tend to look after you. This vehicle has a known service history for what, about 150K miles? That's an incredible start. These are not older import or domestic vehicles that tolerate neglect to a further extent. If this car had been somewhat neglected, I'd be suggesting you run, too. You'd be paying for a fair bit of servicing fairly sooner after.
Going by what others are saying, it sounds like the price is too steep in US terms.
In Australian terms, that price would just get you a good E36, let alone an E46! I paid about AU$6K (US$4,559) in 2013 for my 1993 E36.
My other suggestion is a Pre-Purchase Inspection by a reputable Indy, preferably one with experience working on BMWs. Ask friends with European cars where they get theirs taken (Okay, ignore them if they say JiffyLube - that contradicts my previous posts elsewhere, but you need a proper opinion on this). Doesn't sound like there are any hidden niggles, but if there are, this should reveal them. A test-drive is also a good idea, make sure everything works.
If you're not experienced with working on BMWs, I'd stay clear. I wouldn't pay $5k for it.
It is good ole NA engine non-DI, so extended OCI with LL-01 oil is going to be OK< although not my cup of tea. I would cut down OCI to 10K and use castrol 0W40 or Pennzoil 5W40 oils.
Three things you have to be careful on any BMW:
1. Cooling system, but that was done 15K ago as far as I understood.
2. VANOS. Make sure you have some good BMW mechanic to check that.
3. Transmission. Now this is bit confusing and requires digging in. ZF, manufacturer of transmission recommends fluid change every 60K on their transmissions. BMW on other hand says: nope, it is lifetime and if you want to change fluid change it at 100K. I say: listen ZF. I have 58,500 miles on my X5 35d and I am changing transmission fluid next month using ZF6 fluid. So, that is part I would do if fluid is not changed using only ZF appropriate fluid. Make sure you chnage differential fluid using synthetic fluid something like Castrol Syntrax (probably best on the market).
As for that car, it seems enthusiast was driving it, which is good if it is knowledgable enthusiast and that person seem to be that. BMW's are very reliable cars if you take care of them and like in a plane, change critical parts in timely manner before they collapse.
Three things you have to be careful on any BMW:
1. Cooling system, but that was done 15K ago as far as I understood.
2. VANOS. Make sure you have some good BMW mechanic to check that.
3. Transmission. Now this is bit confusing and requires digging in. ZF, manufacturer of transmission recommends fluid change every 60K on their transmissions. BMW on other hand says: nope, it is lifetime and if you want to change fluid change it at 100K. I say: listen ZF. I have 58,500 miles on my X5 35d and I am changing transmission fluid next month using ZF6 fluid. So, that is part I would do if fluid is not changed using only ZF appropriate fluid. Make sure you chnage differential fluid using synthetic fluid something like Castrol Syntrax (probably best on the market).
As for that car, it seems enthusiast was driving it, which is good if it is knowledgable enthusiast and that person seem to be that. BMW's are very reliable cars if you take care of them and like in a plane, change critical parts in timely manner before they collapse.
Those screaming "run" have probably never even sat in a BMW much less owned one.
Those who've owned them have a better appreciation of the work done to keep this car fresh over many years and miles as well as how good these cars really are when properly looked after.
As I wrote above, a BMW isn't a Toyota Camry, but then it doesn't drive like grandma's Camry either.
Those who've owned them have a better appreciation of the work done to keep this car fresh over many years and miles as well as how good these cars really are when properly looked after.
As I wrote above, a BMW isn't a Toyota Camry, but then it doesn't drive like grandma's Camry either.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Those screaming "run" have probably never even sat in a BMW much less owned one.
Those who've owned them have a better appreciation of the work done to keep this car fresh over many years and miles as well as how good these cars really are when properly looked after.
As I wrote above, a BMW isn't a Toyota Camry, but then it doesn't drive like grandma's Camry either.
You probably would believe me just how many people when they sit in my X5 ask: so any major issues so far?
I am like: you want to walk rest of the trip?
Those screaming "run" have probably never even sat in a BMW much less owned one.
Those who've owned them have a better appreciation of the work done to keep this car fresh over many years and miles as well as how good these cars really are when properly looked after.
As I wrote above, a BMW isn't a Toyota Camry, but then it doesn't drive like grandma's Camry either.
You probably would believe me just how many people when they sit in my X5 ask: so any major issues so far?
I am like: you want to walk rest of the trip?
I use my oldie as a good weather daily driver.
I have a fifty miles a day commute and the BMW is both entertaining to drive and dead reliable. You also can't argue with the 30 mpg+ fuel economy. Parts are cheap if you know where to source them, not that the car has needed much since I bought it six years and 60K ago.
While a BMW isn't a Toyota, it isn't a money pit either.
Unlike Honda or Toyota, there are BMW sites where you find enthusiast owners who do their own work and can help you with any problems you might have.
The BMW hate comes mainly from those who've never been offered even a test drive in one.
This is a good thing, since it helps to keep prices lower than they would be if every Kia, Toyota and Hyundai owner were in the market for a nice used BMW.
I have a fifty miles a day commute and the BMW is both entertaining to drive and dead reliable. You also can't argue with the 30 mpg+ fuel economy. Parts are cheap if you know where to source them, not that the car has needed much since I bought it six years and 60K ago.
While a BMW isn't a Toyota, it isn't a money pit either.
Unlike Honda or Toyota, there are BMW sites where you find enthusiast owners who do their own work and can help you with any problems you might have.
The BMW hate comes mainly from those who've never been offered even a test drive in one.
This is a good thing, since it helps to keep prices lower than they would be if every Kia, Toyota and Hyundai owner were in the market for a nice used BMW.
I wouldn't, but I'm not a BMW fan.
But the seller sounds like a BMW fan who is wants to pass along to another fan. If your son wants to become an aficionado, and likes this example, this could be good. Not a new Camry, but if he's ok with the level of repairs/work/maintenance/whatever that comes with the territory, and wants to dive into this world, then it sounds much better than the typical CL find.
But the seller sounds like a BMW fan who is wants to pass along to another fan. If your son wants to become an aficionado, and likes this example, this could be good. Not a new Camry, but if he's ok with the level of repairs/work/maintenance/whatever that comes with the territory, and wants to dive into this world, then it sounds much better than the typical CL find.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I use my oldie as a good weather daily driver.
I have a fifty miles a day commute and the BMW is both entertaining to drive and dead reliable. You also can't argue with the 30 mpg+ fuel economy. Parts are cheap if you know where to source them, not that the car has needed much since I bought it six years and 60K ago.
While a BMW isn't a Toyota, it isn't a money pit either.
Unlike Honda or Toyota, there are BMW sites where you find enthusiast owners who do their own work and can help you with any problems you might have.
The BMW hate comes mainly from those who've never been offered even a test drive in one.
This is a good thing, since it helps to keep prices lower than they would be if every Kia, Toyota and Hyundai owner were in the market for a nice used BMW.
If one is smart where to buy parts it is cheap.
I am, like I said, going with tranny work soon. BMW OEM pan+filter is $300. ZF pan+filter (so OEM) is $112
Every BMW will do 300-400K if you do basic preventive maintenance. Every BMW like every car will have some issues, no doubt about it. It does require more expensive fluids (for example ZF6 tranny full synt. fluid is $26 per liter, 7 needed) and Toyota is much cheaper. But then, Toyota will never drive like BMW.
I use my oldie as a good weather daily driver.
I have a fifty miles a day commute and the BMW is both entertaining to drive and dead reliable. You also can't argue with the 30 mpg+ fuel economy. Parts are cheap if you know where to source them, not that the car has needed much since I bought it six years and 60K ago.
While a BMW isn't a Toyota, it isn't a money pit either.
Unlike Honda or Toyota, there are BMW sites where you find enthusiast owners who do their own work and can help you with any problems you might have.
The BMW hate comes mainly from those who've never been offered even a test drive in one.
This is a good thing, since it helps to keep prices lower than they would be if every Kia, Toyota and Hyundai owner were in the market for a nice used BMW.
If one is smart where to buy parts it is cheap.
I am, like I said, going with tranny work soon. BMW OEM pan+filter is $300. ZF pan+filter (so OEM) is $112
Every BMW will do 300-400K if you do basic preventive maintenance. Every BMW like every car will have some issues, no doubt about it. It does require more expensive fluids (for example ZF6 tranny full synt. fluid is $26 per liter, 7 needed) and Toyota is much cheaper. But then, Toyota will never drive like BMW.
Forgot about the VANOS. Yes, that's worth looking into.
The test drive will reveal issues, if any:
- Bogging until around 2-3K RPM, then a surge of power thereafter (should be smooth and consistent)
- Lumpy / rough running at startup
- Poor fuel economy: Ask the Owner what is typical MPG is, compare that to your EPA estimates or the figures in the Owner's Manual.
- VANOS rattle may be indicative of a developing issue - but may just be slop in the mechanism and nothing to worry about. Mine sounds nasty, but gets great economy (30-32mpg on the highway, A/C on, fully loaded), pulls well enough the RPM range and does occasionally start a bit lumpy. Its worth noting that using a good oil can go a great length to silencing the VANOS.
- Some suggest any pinging you hear may be as a result of the VANOS not operating correctly.
Suggestions about cutting back the Oil interval to 10K (or even 7.5K if so inclined) are prudent, given the age. Easiest just to stick with LL-01 approved oils. That's what it was designed for, basically.
The test drive will reveal issues, if any:
- Bogging until around 2-3K RPM, then a surge of power thereafter (should be smooth and consistent)
- Lumpy / rough running at startup
- Poor fuel economy: Ask the Owner what is typical MPG is, compare that to your EPA estimates or the figures in the Owner's Manual.
- VANOS rattle may be indicative of a developing issue - but may just be slop in the mechanism and nothing to worry about. Mine sounds nasty, but gets great economy (30-32mpg on the highway, A/C on, fully loaded), pulls well enough the RPM range and does occasionally start a bit lumpy. Its worth noting that using a good oil can go a great length to silencing the VANOS.
- Some suggest any pinging you hear may be as a result of the VANOS not operating correctly.
Suggestions about cutting back the Oil interval to 10K (or even 7.5K if so inclined) are prudent, given the age. Easiest just to stick with LL-01 approved oils. That's what it was designed for, basically.
Nick1994
$100 site donor 2024
I think $5,000 is a little too much.
I think BMWs are decent cars, I won't bash them. But I'm down for a good old fashioned VW bash thread
If he wants a nice car, have him look at a Lexus LS400
I think BMWs are decent cars, I won't bash them. But I'm down for a good old fashioned VW bash thread
If he wants a nice car, have him look at a Lexus LS400
Originally Posted By: edyvw
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Those screaming "run" have probably never even sat in a BMW much less owned one.
Those who've owned them have a better appreciation of the work done to keep this car fresh over many years and miles as well as how good these cars really are when properly looked after.
As I wrote above, a BMW isn't a Toyota Camry, but then it doesn't drive like grandma's Camry either.
You probably would believe me just how many people when they sit in my X5 ask: so any major issues so far?
I am like: you want to walk rest of the trip?
Its an X5, so it is only a matter of time before they have to; My parents friends had one and it was flat bedded twice the first year they owned it.
They are driving a lexus now. Anecdote for sure, but they seem to add up with certain brands of cars.
It is probably a good vehicle for people with certain expectations, a bad vehicle for people with other expectations.
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Those screaming "run" have probably never even sat in a BMW much less owned one.
Those who've owned them have a better appreciation of the work done to keep this car fresh over many years and miles as well as how good these cars really are when properly looked after.
As I wrote above, a BMW isn't a Toyota Camry, but then it doesn't drive like grandma's Camry either.
You probably would believe me just how many people when they sit in my X5 ask: so any major issues so far?
I am like: you want to walk rest of the trip?
Its an X5, so it is only a matter of time before they have to; My parents friends had one and it was flat bedded twice the first year they owned it.
They are driving a lexus now. Anecdote for sure, but they seem to add up with certain brands of cars.
It is probably a good vehicle for people with certain expectations, a bad vehicle for people with other expectations.
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