Oil pan heater?

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: i_hate_autofraud


Hey StevieC,

If you're north of Barrie Ontario, then I'd do the heaters for sure, OR use full synthetic oil, which I changed over to.

I put my dino oil in a cup and a second cup of full synthetic in the freezer and then checked the viscosity after 2 hours,
wow! was the dino oil stiff! The synthetic was still runny! I'll never go back. At this point a heater is no longer needed!

I also looked at bypass filtering, but there are draw backs, more dry start, can't get out ALL the old oil out during an OC,
so I gave up on that and used a pair of FilterMags, oil stays clean for 5-6 months after an OC, better then I could have hoped with a bypass filter!

OIL FILTERING: FULL FLOW and BY - PASS
https://app.box.com/s/m8nyfg0we1oq9o2s3qwgsj62f3z3422d


FILTERMAG vs HOMEBREW
https://app.box.com/s/uxvu8dmscf5wcgftutdm0ejqwgn86tw7




Where my system will be located and the short hoses required I'm not concerned about the remaining oil in the system.

As for location, I'm not far from Niagara Falls and so the temperatures here are mild until February but with bypass I don't want it running without filtration any longer than it has to so a pan heater is a good option for that.

Thanks for the links. I read the Filtermag one already but I will read the other one when I'm home today.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: StevieC
I use the 5w instead of a 0w because of the requirements of Dodge VVT system.


What? You need to explain your thought process here. There are plenty of Chrysler approved 0w-20's on the market. VVT systems are NOT that sensitive.


I was told by Chrysler when I asked that it should be a 5w20 and not a 0w20. I explained about the what the number meant and flow should have no bearing on this requirement and was told that the engine operates best with 5w20 not 0w20. I even wrote to FCA Canada and requested an answer from the engineers not a form response. I will go through my e-mail when I get home and see if I still have it.

FWIW my neighbour was told the same thing with his new Ram truck. (V8 Gasoline)


As you've already surmised, it doesn't make a lick of sense. A high PAO 0w-20 is far more likely to stay in grade than a conventional 5w-20 full of VII.

Most dealerships don't know much about oil, hence the recommendation to run what is on the oil cap, so I'm not surprised your buddy was told that by his.

However, Chrysler approves both grades.

Reminds me of BMW's VANOS where the same system is used with 5w-30/0w-40 and 10w-60, or Ford's VVT system where, depending on application it gets 5w-20 or 5w-50, or even Chrysler's 5.7L and 6.4L HEMI's using the exact same parts, yet spec'ing 5w-20 or 0w-40.

I mean, looked at logically, it's nonsense. It's quite possible for a high-VI 5w-20 to be thinner at most observed operating temps than a relatively low-VI 0w-20 like M1 AFE for example.

 

[StevieC]

I know it's nonsense. Even the Amsoil application guide calls for 5w20 instead of 0w20. If you look at the PDS for the SSO for both the 0w20 and 5w20 they are virtually identical so it makes no sense to me. That said the 5w20 is producing stellar UOA's and if Chrysler does want that "somewhere" for whatever "stupid" reason and the pumping-ability at really cold temperatures is almost identical to the 0w20 why not leave it be. It's still far better than conventional 5w20 all around which these engines have no problem with.


Page 4 of this shows it... https://www.amsoil.com/lit/databulletins/g2880.pdf

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I know it's nonsense. Even the Amsoil application guide calls for 5w20 instead of 0w20. If you look at the PDS for the SSO for both the 0w20 and 5w20 they are virtually identical so it makes no sense to me. That said the 5w20 is producing stellar UOA's and if Chrysler does want that "somewhere" and the pump ability at really cold temperatures is almost identical to the 0w20 why not leave it be. It's still far better than conventional 5w20 all around which these engines have no problem with.


Well, you live in Canada, and we do actually hit -30C and below at times. The 5w-20 hits its Cold Cranking threshold at that point, hits its pumping threshold at -35C. The 0w-20 buys you another 5C on both those numbers.

Generally, the OEM recommendations are "for the masses" and as such, a 5w-20 is cheaper to blend and doesn't imply synthetic, a 0w-20 on the other hand, does. Both can be approved but the bare minimum is what's on the cap. It's a whole different ball of wax once you hit performance vehicle territory though where higher ticket stuff is expected, hence the 0w-40 (for which the dealer price is plain lunacy on).

BTW, the Mobil oil selector recommends both

Originally Posted By: Mobil
Based on what you've told us, your vehicle manufacturer recommends a 5W-20 viscosity and oil that meets Chrysler MS-6395. A 0W-20 viscosity can also be used.


But they are the exception, most will, as you've noticed, recommend what is on the fill cap.

 

[StevieC]

Understood and agreed.

 

[StevieC]

I still think an oil pan heater is the best to do no matter whether I use the 5w20 / 0w20 oil. It's still far colder than it should be.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I still think an oil pan heater is the best to do no matter whether I use the 5w20 / 0w20 oil. It's still far colder than it should be.

For sure, my use of a 0w-xx in the winter is based on the premise of potentially getting caught somewhere with no plug and it getting down below -30C, the odds of which aren't great, but it can happen. I think every vehicle I've ever owned has had a block heater, it is being able to plug it in that can be the problem.

 

[StevieC]

I suppose I could change over to 0w20. Maybe I will do that when my stock is used up. I have lots of 5w20 because I'm using it in the Journey, my FIL's Caravan and MIL's CRV now. They were having a sale a while back and I ordered as much as I could.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
I suppose I could change over to 0w20. Maybe I will do that when my stock is used up. I have lots of 5w20 because I'm using it in the Journey, my FIL's Caravan and MIL's CRV now. They were having a sale a while back and I ordered as much as I could.

I've switched back and forth between Edge 0w-20 and M1 AFE 0w-20 in the Durango, as you know how the sales are at CT

 

[Pajero]

What does everyone do, when you have skid plates? My Gen 2 Montero, has a few skid plates.



Respectfully,

Pajero!

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I did clean the pan well and put a bead of high temp silicone around them, the truck still has them and still working 8 years on so they last.


The ONLY PROPER way to install these is to put a big blob of silicone in the center,
and use pressure in all directions to work the "blob" out towards the edges.

You do not want any air bubbles between the heater pad and the oil pan at all.

 

[StevieC]

My '06 Santa Fe had a skid plate but had an access door for the filter. The drain plug was rear facing and not under the skid plate.

Anyone that doesn't have this I wouldn't buy the vehicle because that is just stupid for something as frequent as an oil change.

 

[Danno]

In building the last batch of Transit T350 DRW 3.2L diesel trucks - 100% uptime start in the morning was the expectation.
We equipped them with 10W -30 oil, stock block heater, 250W oil pan heaters and a 3 Amp Battery Tender trickle charger.
These were all routed to a single marine style plug, near the driver's door.
The total draw had to be taken into account, didn't want a 15AMP service to be exceeded.
"IF" the truck was plugged in, it would start, no matter if it was -40C and located in Kapuskasing, ON or Cold Lake AB.
Note: Expectation was diesel treatment additive every second fill-up as well.

 

[demarpaint]

I have three Wolverine oil pan heaters for occasional winter use. For better cold starts an oil pan heater is the way to go. For warming up the cabin and defrosting windows a block heater wins. The best is a combo, oil pan heater, block heater, and a transmission pan heater. I have that setup on my Wrangler. A battery warmer is a nice touch too.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: Danno
In building the last batch of Transit T350 DRW 3.2L diesel trucks - 100% uptime start in the morning was the expectation.
We equipped them with 10W -30 oil, stock block heater, 250W oil pan heaters and a 3 Amp Battery Tender trickle charger.
These were all routed to a single marine style plug, near the driver's door.
The total draw had to be taken into account, didn't want a 15AMP service to be exceeded.
"IF" the truck was plugged in, it would start, no matter if it was -40C and located in Kapuskasing, ON or Cold Lake AB.
Note: Expectation was diesel treatment additive every second fill-up as well.
This is EXACTLY what I do with my old F-450 7.3 in winter-a 250W Wolverine pan heater, the factory block heater, and my old 6A Schauer battery charger all tied together onto one cord. Set the timer for 3 hours before I need to start it, it fires up easily & even has enough heat to start defrosting the windshield, even below 0F (-18C), and I can use straight 30 or 15W40 in winter that way (it leaks too much to use 5W40).

 

[mcwilly]

I picked up this badboy when it went on sale for $39.99:
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/200w-2a-magnetic-engine-oil-heater/A-p4270099e

It hasn't been cold enough to play with it much and see if it actually makes a difference. It does get too hot to touch real quick, I'm just not sure if I need to modify it at all to make sure the contact is tight.

I was reluctant to get the permanent silicone one just because I'm not sure how long the car will be around for.

 

[bullwinkle]

Originally Posted By: mcwilly
I picked up this badboy when it went on sale for $39.99:
https://www.princessauto.com/en/detail/200w-2a-magnetic-engine-oil-heater/A-p4270099e

It hasn't been cold enough to play with it much and see if it actually makes a difference. It does get too hot to touch real quick, I'm just not sure if I need to modify it at all to make sure the contact is tight.

I was reluctant to get the permanent silicone one just because I'm not sure how long the car will be around for.
I have a couple of those, they just didn't seem to warm the pan very much, not sure if there's enough surface area on them. But, on a smaller car oil pan & sump, it might.

 

[StevieC]

Seeing as there isn't really a flat surface anywhere on this oil pan I think I'm going to stick it on the front of the pan instead of the bottom where there seams to be a somewhat of a flat surface.

You can see the pan in these pictures... (Yellow Arrow is where I'm thinking of putting it)

No laughing at my mad MS-Paint skills.

 

[Audios]

Im not sure if theyve been mentioned, but I know theres magnetic ones that work pretty well, if your oil pan is easily reachable you can just pull it off before you leave. I went with a Frostheater on my Tdi, but thats a coolant heater. It does warm the oil thats near the cooler, but its more so I can have heat sooner in the morning.

 

[StevieC]

Yeah my pan isn't easily accessible and certainly not in dress clothes for work so it would need to be a more permanent solution.