Oil Filter Going 2 OCI Thoughts

[ATex7239]

Though I am in the just change it every time camp, one aspect to consider is if the manual on your vehicle provides a without filter capacity maybe there is an assumption that it doesn’t in fact to be changed every time.

From my Toyota:

 

[ZeeOSix]

I am switching from M1 FS 0W40 to Valvoline EPHM 5W30 if that should be a factor into the "go / no-go" answer as well.

I'm using the 5W30 for winter temp purposes as this OC will go through to next March/April-ish. Winters don't get too bad here, but we do get spells of sub-zero temps and my truck is always parked outside. Figure erring on the side of caution is better.

Erring on the safe side of caution for what purpose? No reason to go to a xW-30 from xW-40 for winter. The 40 isn't going to matter in the winter because the engine oil temps will still be pretty hot in the winter since that engine uses a coolant to oil heat exchanger. The 0W will be better for winter temperature anyway too.

 

[NormanBuntz]

If you do use the filter for 2 OCs, be sure to at least remove the filter and drain it the first time.

Atikovi, you're such a kidder.

 

[Blake1107]

Erring on the safe side of caution for what purpose? No reason to go to a xW-30 from xW-40 for winter. The 40 isn't going to matter in the winter because the engine oil temps will still be pretty hot in the winter since that engine uses a coolant to oil heat exchanger. The 0W will be better for winter temperature anyway too.

This is going to be where my noviceness (?) becomes an issue more than likely. So, take it easy on me after reading this as I want to answer the question honestly, LOL.

I tried out the M1 FS 0W40 as it‘s on the heavier side (for the lack of a better term I cannot think of right now) based on the KV100 value of 13.8 and I was wanting to see if it would quiet a certain engine noise my truck has (which it did, but has slowly come back as I would guess the oil has sheared down some now). Since my brain thinks “heavier” at 13.8 I assume that when it sits out overnight in say -10F temps, the cold start flow would be less than that of the Valvoline EPHM which is KV100 of 11.0. I am going to assume (correctly I feel) from your response that I am totally wrong though.

 

[Blake1107]

Is this the correct filter for your truck? We use these on expeditions and F-150’s at my work.

Do not recall seeing that one listed on the cross-reference charts I have looked at, but the 57045 number matches one for WIX and Microgard Select that cross to my truck. So wouldn’t surprise me if that one would work, too.

 

[WobblyElvis]

The filter has been on my Dodge minivan for 3 years/13,000 miles. If I change it next year, I'll post pics of the internals.

 

[ZeeOSix]

This is going to be where my noviceness (?) becomes an issue more than likely. So, take it easy on me after reading this as I want to answer the question honestly, LOL.

I tried out the M1 FS 0W40 as it‘s on the heavier side (for the lack of a better term I cannot think of right now) based on the KV100 value of 13.8 and I was wanting to see if it would quiet a certain engine noise my truck has (which it did, but has slowly come back as I would guess the oil has sheared down some now). Since my brain thinks “heavier” at 13.8 I assume that when it sits out overnight in say -10F temps, the cold start flow would be less than that of the Valvoline EPHM which is KV100 of 11.0. I am going to assume (correctly I feel) from your response that I am totally wrong though.

The KV100 has nothing to do with the oil viscosity when cold ... that's what the W rating is for, to tell you which one is less viscous at very cold start-up temperatures (0W better than 5W better than 10W, etc for winter use).

The hot oil grade is based on the KV100, which literally stands for the "Kinematic Viscosity at 100C". So 13.8 and 11.0 are the kinematic viscosity at 100C. The units of that kinematic viscosity is cSt (centistokes). A viscosity of 13.8 cSt is thicker at 100C than 11.0 cSt.

If you really want to compare the cold viscosity related to the W grade, try to find the viscosity spec from the oil maker at the W rating test temperature, ie at -30C if you are comparing the same 5W grade oils cold cranking viscosity. Just like KV100, there are "thicker or thinner" W grade oils, just like "thicker or thinner" oils in the 30 grade or 40 grade, etc ... but that's getting somewhat into hair splitting realm. But in a nutshell, a 0W grade oil will be thinner (less viscosity) at cold start-up temps than a 5W. The W grade rating and the KV100 grade rating are two separate grade/ratings and don't have any real direct connection to each other.

 

[Blake1107]

@ZeeOSix, I appreciate that!
I do have one more question that is related to the “cleaning/conditioning ability” of the two oils (M1 FS 0W40 and VEPHM 5W30). Apologies, I may get some things wrong/mixed up here.
I have been watching Lake Speed Jr videos and they have been helping with the understanding of some things: like base oils and why brands have them blended the way they do. I noticed in one video he talks about Oxidative Value correlation to Esters (PAO?) and how some HM oils add them for seal conditioning and cleaning to GTL oils (bumping the OV up to around 8-12 range maybe compared to the non-HM version). I think in another video he mentions M1 FS 0W40 being around OV of 37 maybe. Even though the additive pack seems a little less in some areas compared to the VEPHM, should I assume the M1 would be the better oil since it is higher in Ester/PAO and should naturally do all that?

 

[ZeeOSix]

@ZeeOSix, I appreciate that!
I do have one more question that is related to the “cleaning/conditioning ability” of the two oils (M1 FS 0W40 and VEPHM 5W30).

Do you think your engine is dirty? What's it look like down the oil fill cap? Is that where the "buildup/varnish" you mention is? If you've been using Mobil 1 with 7500 mile OCIs for 100K miles I'm surprised there's any varnish or deposits visible. Check the PVC system and replace yve PVC valve if it hasn't been.

 

[atikovi]

Compare the base gasket on a used filter to the same filter that's never been used. The base gasket compresses and remains compressed on the used filter, so if you remove it and reinstall it, the gasket doesn't have much spring action left in it. If someone is going to run a filter for more than one OCI, don't remove it, drain it and then reinstall it. Don't disturb the gasket is the best practice. Why go through all that trouble and risk to drain 6 or 8 ounces of oil from the filter?

I've had no leaks after doing that when I picked up car with pretty dirty oil. I want to drain ALL the oil out including from the filter, refill with all new oil, than change the oil again in a few hundred miles with a new filter.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I've had no leaks after doing that when I picked up car with pretty dirty oil. I want to drain ALL the oil out including from the filter, refill with all new oil, than change the oil again in a few hundred miles with a new filter.

No leaks once doesn't mean no possible leaks every time it's done. IMO, it's bad practice to remove, drain and then reinstall a used filter because of the base gasket permanent compression and reduction in flexibility.

 

[Blake1107]

Do you think your engine is dirty? What's it look like down the oil fill cap? Is that were he "buildup/varnish" you mention is? If you've been using Mobil 1 with 7500 mile OCIs for 100K miles I'm surprised there's any varnish or deposits visible. Check the PVC system and replace yve PVC valve if it hasn't been.

Yes, through the oil fill cap is where I see what I think is buildup/varnish. Discoloration on the visible parts.
This is actually my first run of M1. The first 40K of ownership I ran Amsoil SS 5W20 for intervals right at 10K. Got tired of paying $100+ for oil changes I was doing myself and began trying other stuff. Over the last 50K, off the top of my head, I have ran xW30 in Magnatec, Edge Euro A3/B4, Valvoline EP (3 OCI’s) and maybe another. In xW40 I have ran Amsoil EFM and M1. Intervals for most were around 7,500 max with some being shorter, around 5K.
PCV on the dirty side was replaced at around 130K, was the original and not totally clogged up, but compared to the new one I put in, the internals of the old did not move as freely as the new. Do have a catch can on that side if it matters.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Yes, through the oil fill cap is where I see what I think is buildup/varnish. Discoloration on the visible parts.
This is actually my first run of M1. The first 40K of ownership I ran Amsoil SS 5W20 for intervals right at 10K. Got tired of paying $100+ for oil changes I was doing myself and began trying other stuff. Over the last 50K, off the top of my head, I have ran xW30 in Magnatec, Edge Euro A3/B4, Valvoline EP (3 OCI’s) and maybe another. In xW40 I have ran Amsoil EFM and M1. Intervals for most were around 7,500 max with some being shorter, around 5K.
PCV on the dirty side was replaced at around 130K, was the original and not totally clogged up, but compared to the new one I put in, the internals of the old did not move as freely as the new. Do have a catch can on that side if it matters.

Can't say for sure what oil would clean better, but does seem Mobil 1 does have some cleaning power. I think a lot of keeping an engine clean is keeping the OCI reasonable regardless of which oil is used. Keep the OCIs shorter if the vehicle is short tripped a lot. If it gets driven longer distances most of the time and the oil gets up to full operating temperature for awhile, then the OCI can be longer (ie, lots of highway driving). I've seen engines with 180K miles on them that have ran all kinds of oil brands with 3K-5K OCIs and looking down the oil fill cap still looked like a brand new engine inside.

 

[Blake1107]

Can't say for sure what oil would clean better, but does seem Mobil 1 does have some cleaning power. I think a lot of keeping an engine clean is keeping the OCI reasonable regardless of which oil is used. Keep the OCIs shorter if the vehicle is short tripped a lot. If it gets driven longer distances most of the time and the oil gets up to full operating temperature for awhile, then the OCI can be longer (ie, lots of highway driving). I've seen engines with 180K miles on them that have ran all kinds of oil brands with 3K-5K OCIs and looking down the oil fill cap still looked like a brand new engine inside.

Thank you! I appreciate all your help!

 

[atikovi]

No leaks once doesn't mean no possible leaks every time it's done. IMO, it's bad practice to remove, drain and then reinstall a used filter because of the base gasket permanent compression and reduction in flexibility.

Old wives tale. If that is true, it would already be leaking.

 

[Bellavita]

To give vehicle background: 2016 F-150 with the 5.0. Owned since 48,XXX miles and have nearly put 100K on myself now. Not an issue from it and always a synthetic oil and quality filter ran. Has been a 1/2 quart short maybe twice at an OC.

I have recently decided to shorten my OCI's from roughly 7,500 miles max to approx. 4,000 in an attempt to hopefully clean up some buildup/varnish in the engine a little. This will be the first OC at 4,000. By cutting the interval nearly in half, I began wondering if I should consider leaving the filter on for 2 OC's. I did my best to use the search function to gather the information I could and it seems (from what decent information that could be sifted out) to be a split decision as far as BITOG goes.

In the approximately 4,000 miles (5 months) on the current filter (Fram Endurance), there have been a few longer road trips, but the majority of the miles are commutes to and from work and trips to neighboring towns. Trips that would have the engine running 30 min at max. I am switching from M1 FS 0W40 to Valvoline EPHM 5W30 if that should be a factor into the "go / no-go" answer as well.
For those who do use a filter for 2 OC's, what factors should I consider into the final decision?

With my truck, the messiest (and sometimes longest part for a big guy like me) of the OC is the filter swap with the position Ford has it on the engine and so the idea of not having to deal with that is kind of nice to consider, too.

Thanks in advance for any and all thoughts and help!

Good Morning Blake107,
With you going to a 4,000 OCI, the Fram Endurance that is rated at 25,000 miles will have no issues lasting two OCIs. Leave the filter on, do not remove it to drain it. Save yourself that hassle and mess. This is one of the great benefits of going to 2X changes on the oil filter in addition to the cost and environmental savings. You may want to write the mileage or some kind of mark on the filter (date or mileage) to denote it has been left on.

 

[Blake1107]

Good Morning Blake107,
With you going to a 4,000 OCI, the Fram Endurance that is rated at 25,000 miles will have no issues lasting two OCIs. Leave the filter on, do not remove it to drain it. Save yourself that hassle and mess. This is one of the great benefits of going to 2X changes on the oil filter in addition to the cost and environmental savings. You may want to write the mileage or some kind of mark on the filter (date or mileage) to denote it has been left on.

Yep, I write date and mileage on every filter I install! I also have an Excel workbook of hand calculated fuel mileage and every service done (DIY or shop) from day one of the truck. Probably a little obsessive/OCD, but I just like having the records.

 

[ZeeOSix]

If you're doing 4K OCIs, you could do 3 OCIs on the Endurance and still only use half of its 25K mile rating.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Old wives tale. If that is true, it would already be leaking.

So how much of a turn do you tighten the used filter to? It certainly won't be 3/4 to 1 turn like when new because the base gasket has permanently compressed quite a bit. There's still more risk of leakage when removed and reinstalled compared to not disturbing the filter if it's going to be ran more than one OCI. Plus, if the can is damaged some (dented, creases, twisted, etc) during removal, that to adds points of possible can failure and leaks. I wouldn't do it on any of my vehicles.

 

[atikovi]

So how much of a turn do you tighten the used filter to? It certainly won't be 3/4 to 1 turn like when new because the base gasket has permanently compressed quite a bit.

1 turn compresses the gasket 1 mm on a typical 1.00 pitch thread. I just turn it until it feels snug. It won't be rock hard unless it's been on there for years.