Oil discussion at the service counter...

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I'm sure it was. And what would have happened if you had 20W-50 in a 5W-30 application where you are at? Hard to start if it was in an unheated area? Sure. Good for fuel economy? No. Optimal under the conditions? No. Will you be in bypass? Oh yea. Is the mechanic the OP referring to misinformed? Sure.

I'm not condoning the use of improper oil but the Chicken Little sky is falling BITOG paranoia scripted responses gets out of control sometimes. The OP will rid himself of the car long before the consequences of grossly improper engine oil rears it's ugly head.

We are also talking Fahrenheit, not Celsius. -25C is -13F. Borderline for 20W. A synthetic 10W-30 would be just fine in the OP's application is his area of the world this time of year.



Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
Where in NA is it consistently -20? 20W is rated to -15, is it not? What's going to happen to the OP's engine if he puts in 20W-50?


Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
So......We now have two documented mechanical types that work on Subarus that do not know feces from Shinola when discussing motor oil. I suppose that is about average, considering who works on cars for a living, these days.


It was -25C here AGAIN this AM.
 
I actually may just stick with 10w30 T5 Rotella after this....it's true winters are hit & miss. Summer isn't though...
 
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A service adviser that works for a Subaru dealership told me he advises against 20 weight oils if the customer drives on the freeway. He told me that in his experience any dyno 5w-30 is better than any synthetic 0w-20 or 5w-20 oil for a turbo engine. I think it's very possible that he's wrong and customers are not getting the advice they need to make a reasonable decision especially considering that in Southern California it's difficult to drive anywhere beyond your own neighborhood and not drive on a freeway.
 
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
I actually may just stick with 10w30 T5 Rotella after this....it's true winters are hit & miss. Summer isn't though...


Does your manual have one of those oil temp charts? I'd go with the most feasible thickest recommendation (probably a 5/10W40?). Mine recommends 20W50 down to 14F. I started it one morning with VWB 20W50 when it was -2F. Started right up and purred like a happy healthy kitten :^),got on the hwy,set the cruise at 80mph, and headed to work!
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
If Subaru cant train their own employees properly,how could anyone feel confident in buying one knowing that your warranty may be handled by rank amateurs? Might as well print the warranty on toilet paper.


I should say that in the case of my friend with his WRX, it wasn't a Subaru dealer. It was a 9 year old, well whipped, WRX with lots of aftermarket goodies.

I recall it had a lot of bolt ons with no supporting modifications. When the engine went *POP*, it was blamed on the OTC synthetic oil my friend was using too ... I'm sure you can guess the brand.
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
If Subaru cant train their own employees properly,how could anyone feel confident in buying one knowing that your warranty may be handled by rank amateurs? Might as well print the warranty on toilet paper.


Which is why many gave up on VW. Including me. Straight incompetence. It was like they were trained to be that bad. I kinda sorta am chomping at the bit to drive out of warranty on my last two vehicles, then the only reason I'll have for going to the dealer is for parts. And only maybe then.
 
Originally Posted By: MinamiKotaro

I wonder how many other people are driving cars that "seem" fine but are actually only running through some kind of miracle.


I suspect many, and many people are fine with that. And who is to blame them? It runs, it gets the job done. Sludge, varnish and all. Since most are 5 and done, afterall (new or used, how many people drive the same vehicle for more than 5 years?).
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
If Subaru cant train their own employees properly,how could anyone feel confident in buying one knowing that your warranty may be handled by rank amateurs? Might as well print the warranty on toilet paper.


I should say that in the case of my friend with his WRX, it wasn't a Subaru dealer. It was a 9 year old, well whipped, WRX with lots of aftermarket goodies.

I recall it had a lot of bolt ons with no supporting modifications. When the engine went *POP*, it was blamed on the OTC synthetic oil my friend was using too ... I'm sure you can guess the brand.


It all depends on how the engine went "Pop". Mobil 1 is derided regularly for use in these engines, mostly for a reputation for excessive consumption. But, when surveys are done, it actually comes in looking better than most (For consumption).

It is often a chicken or egg situation, trying to assign blame after the fact. Did it blow because of the oil? Highly unlikely. Did it blow because there wasn't enough oil in the motor? And where did the oil go? Turbo failure, and junk in the oil feed to the turbo take a lot of these motors out. Is that the oil's fault? It depends on where the junk came from.

Use of thick, old school oil may cover up some sins of the engine builder, but it certainly is not the best choice for overall performance in a modern, healthy turbo motor. Recommending it does not instill confidence in the engine builder's overall knowledge.

Subaru recommends synthetic oil, and shortened OCIs with these motors for a reason.
 
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
In reference to this thread about the engine failure.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...tim#Post3627674

I went in to check on it plus see about their policy on loaners and apparently I'd always get a free loaner in the past but now Subaru charges $35 a day. I smell something...

Either way I asked about the engine etc....A tech asked what oil I use. I said synthetic and always 5w30 with a few 0w30's Castrol being one I most used in that category. He just shook his head why would you use a 0 anything. I reply it's the cold viscosity not the operating one especially in this winter it's useful. Then he said synthetics aren't good anyway. No turbo car should use them.

I just stopped talking because literally what could I have said. So much bad knowledge in such a short time. [censored] SUBARU uses a 5w30 synthetic stock. The worst part is he is a mechanic. What other things does he have dead wrong?

This is just like a Walmart conversation when buying oil, viscosity isn't important. Oil is oil or so I'm told.


Ridiculous that a dealer tech would say that.
 
Originally Posted By: Oil Changer
I'm sure it was. And what would have happened if you had 20W-50 in a 5W-30 application where you are at? Hard to start if it was in an unheated area? Sure. Good for fuel economy? No. Optimal under the conditions? No. Will you be in bypass? Oh yea. Is the mechanic the OP referring to misinformed? Sure.

I'm not condoning the use of improper oil but the Chicken Little sky is falling BITOG paranoia scripted responses gets out of control sometimes. The OP will rid himself of the car long before the consequences of grossly improper engine oil rears it's ugly head.

We are also talking Fahrenheit, not Celsius. -25C is -13F. Borderline for 20W. A synthetic 10W-30 would be just fine in the OP's application is his area of the world this time of year.



I have a motorcycle that I have used 15W/50 in, almost from new. It is appropriate for that application, because it is a (Mostly) air cooled motor, and the manufacturer recommended XXW/50 originally. And, even though I ride when it is too cold for most, I seldom have to fire it up below 15F. I use T6 5W/40 in a couple of others, that are watercooled. My 4 wheeled vehicles get Mobil 1, either 5W/30 or 0W/40, depending on circumstances.

I wonder why you second guessed my statement that the "Engine builder" that recommended the 20W/50 was not well informed? Of course most engines will go for quite some time, on less than ideal oil. That is no reason not to recommend something more appropriate.

And why do I see several references to recommendation to not use synthetics in Subaru turbo motors? Because they motors fail, and happen to have synthetic in them? That is far from cause and effect. A turbo starved for oil, (A chief cause of failure for Subaru turbo motors) shedding junk into the motor, is not the fault of the oil being synthetic.
 
I have said this before, but I was browsing an oil debate on one of my friends Facebook posts. The vast majority of the guys were "boosted subi" folk.

One guy recommended T6 (5w40) and another guy chimed in saying it was too thin and only needed in extreme cold weather.

I blame the old school mechanics on this spread of wrongful information.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
I actually may just stick with 10w30 T5 Rotella after this....it's true winters are hit & miss. Summer isn't though...


Does your manual have one of those oil temp charts? I'd go with the most feasible thickest recommendation (probably a 5/10W40?). Mine recommends 20W50 down to 14F. I started it one morning with VWB 20W50 when it was -2F. Started right up and purred like a happy healthy kitten :^),got on the hwy,set the cruise at 80mph, and headed to work!


Those charts are a direct copy from every other manual I've seen and not really relevant today. Could I use it? Sure but is it the best choice? Not really.
 
If you ignore the effect of the US CAFE regulations choose the oil for your engine from the similar climate in Europe. Where many US makers specify 5w-20, you can safely and confidently use 5w-30 I would tend to chose the 5w-30 where you tend to do lots of high speed highway driving or where ambients temps are high.
 
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog

It all depends on how the engine went "Pop". Mobil 1 is derided regularly for use in these engines, mostly for a reputation for excessive consumption. But, when surveys are done, it actually comes in looking better than most (For consumption).


A lot of "experts" on the Mazdaspeed forums also badmouth Mobil 1; I usually respond by posting a recent UOA from my Mazdaspeed 3(which runs M1 5W-30 with a 7.5k OCI) and asking exactly what is wrong with said UOA. The result is always a stony silence...
 
I agree.

For over-aggressive Mazda drivers, a 5W-30 is prudent due to increased oil sheering from spirited revving and higher RPM's.
 
Originally Posted By: 4wheeldog
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
If Subaru cant train their own employees properly,how could anyone feel confident in buying one knowing that your warranty may be handled by rank amateurs? Might as well print the warranty on toilet paper.


I should say that in the case of my friend with his WRX, it wasn't a Subaru dealer. It was a 9 year old, well whipped, WRX with lots of aftermarket goodies.

I recall it had a lot of bolt ons with no supporting modifications. When the engine went *POP*, it was blamed on the OTC synthetic oil my friend was using too ... I'm sure you can guess the brand.


It all depends on how the engine went "Pop". Mobil 1 is derided regularly for use in these engines, mostly for a reputation for excessive consumption. But, when surveys are done, it actually comes in looking better than most (For consumption).

It is often a chicken or egg situation, trying to assign blame after the fact. Did it blow because of the oil? Highly unlikely. Did it blow because there wasn't enough oil in the motor? And where did the oil go? Turbo failure, and junk in the oil feed to the turbo take a lot of these motors out. Is that the oil's fault? It depends on where the junk came from.

Use of thick, old school oil may cover up some sins of the engine builder, but it certainly is not the best choice for overall performance in a modern, healthy turbo motor. Recommending it does not instill confidence in the engine builder's overall knowledge.

Subaru recommends synthetic oil, and shortened OCIs with these motors for a reason.


The engine blew because the engine wasn't built to handle the modifications and th computer wasn't tuned to handle it.

If he was running the most expensive 30w70 super botique pink oil, it still would have let go
 
Originally Posted By: Thermo1223
In reference to this thread about the engine failure.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...tim#Post3627674

I went in to check on it plus see about their policy on loaners and apparently I'd always get a free loaner in the past but now Subaru charges $35 a day. I smell something...

Either way I asked about the engine etc....A tech asked what oil I use. I said synthetic and always 5w30 with a few 0w30's Castrol being one I most used in that category. He just shook his head why would you use a 0 anything. I reply it's the cold viscosity not the operating one especially in this winter it's useful. Then he said synthetics aren't good anyway. No turbo car should use them.

I just stopped talking because literally what could I have said. So much bad knowledge in such a short time. [censored] SUBARU uses a 5w30 synthetic stock. The worst part is he is a mechanic. What other things does he have dead wrong?

This is just like a Walmart conversation when buying oil, viscosity isn't important. Oil is oil or so I'm told.


The tire shop my dad used (he passed suddenly Tuesday morning) has a mech in the shop,who has his name on all these fancy papers they call certifications argued with me I needed an oil change when they changed my fuel pump because the oil was black. I had redline 5w-40 in the sump with a couple thousand miles on it.
I told him that was absurd and told him the oil I had and mileage. He then went into a spiel which I completely ignored. He also changed my plugs because he said they were carboned up. The plugs had the same couple thousand miles on them so asked him to produce the. And show me since I had just changed them myself.
Of course they were thrown Away.
Now that my dads gone no vehicle will ever go back to that shop. Ever I'll stick to my usual guy. The only reason I used them is because my regular guy is a 2 week wait minimum,because he's that good. But I needed the truck now so I settled. Never again.
 
Originally Posted By: cjcride
Sorry about your dad Clevy.


Same here,so sorry to hear about that Clevy
frown.gif
 
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