Odd filter issue

Originally Posted by fatrap314
"Sucking on an oil filter will allow air to travel through the filter media" ---- You'd think so. Sometimes it did and sometimes it didn't. That's my concern.


It can only flow throw the filter media if the ADBV allows flow.
 
I just make sure they don't leak when blown into ... that's what really counts. The PD oil pump will definitely open any ADBV enough unless it's old and rock hard from heat.
 
I've sucked on the center hole of a few oil filters, but not while in the store LOL. I had already purchased the filters. I was bored, and just curious. I never bothered blowing because both of my road vehicles have vertically mounted filter and I assumed they don't spec an ADBV.
 
Lots of vehicles with base up vertical filters spec an ADBV. It's still needed to prevent all the oil in the galleries above the filter from draining down.
 
Let's make sure everyone understands how it works. Here is a cutaway of a Fram with the ADBV shown. With the engine off, the hydrostatic pressure of the oil in the galleries pressure up the center tube of the filter, passes through the media, then into the outside of the tube and presses the silicon rubber up against those holes in the outside ring of the oil filter, sealing the circle of holes so no oil can get past. That holds the oil in place in the galleries. When the engine is started, the oil from the oil pump pressures through the holes from outside of the oil filter, pushing the silicon rubber flap off the holes, then flows through the media and exits the oil filter through the large center hole, providing oil to the galleries.



26BD108D-E337-4442-AEAF-7A9004CF6A92.png
 
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The maximum pressure across the silicon flapper by inducing a vacuum in the center tube is 14.7 psi at sea level. That is the typical atmospheric pressure on the planet earth at sea level. Is that enough pressure to unseat the flapper? I guess that depends on the manufacturer.
 
Originally Posted by DGXR
I've sucked on the center hole of a few oil filters, but not while in the store LOL. I had already purchased the filters. I was bored, and just curious. I never bothered blowing because both of my road vehicles have vertically mounted filter and I assumed they don't spec an ADBV.


Being vertically mounted has nothing to do with keeping oil in the galleries of an engine. This has been discussed at great length in this forum. ADBVs work with any filter orientation are useful for holding oil in the galleries allowing it to reach the bearings immediately upon start up.
 
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Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
The maximum pressure across the silicon flapper by inducing a vacuum in the center tube is 14.7 psi at sea level. That is the typical atmospheric pressure on the planet earth at sea level. Is that enough pressure to unseat the flapper? I guess that depends on the manufacturer.


No vacuum cleaner will pull 1 ATM of vacuum, maybe 10~12 PSI if there's some air flow still going on. You'd need a real vacuum pump to get close to a full vacuum, and it would only do it with a tight closed system - ie, like when a vacuum pump is put a tight A/C system to evacuate all the air before charging with Freon.

The powerful little vacuum I tried was enough to crack open the ADBV to cause noticable air flow through the filters I tried it on. The same filters had a tight seal during the blow test.
 
Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Hello. Sucking on an oil filter will allow air to travel through the filter media. I sure hope this doesn't start to be a trend in the aisle at Napa.



Maybe they will dim the lights and have candles going to help set the mood in the aisle.

lol.gif
 
"That is the typical atmospheric pressure on the planet earth at sea level. Is that enough pressure to unseat the flapper?" ---- No. Because the pressure is applied on both sides of the flapper when the oil filter is not installed, and when it is installed atmospheric pressure no longer applies. It's irrelevant.
 
Originally Posted by fatrap314
"That is the typical atmospheric pressure on the planet earth at sea level. Is that enough pressure to unseat the flapper?" ---- No. Because the pressure is applied on both sides of the flapper when the oil filter is not installed, and when it is installed atmospheric pressure no longer applies. It's irrelevant.


As with all internet discussions it's better to just chat about it over a beer. These guys are talking about trying to pull a vacuum on the center tube. With the filter installed there is atmospheric pressure inside the crankcase at the bearings and also applied to the inlet screen of the pump.
 
So I visited Autozone today and blew/sucked on oil filters. They all wouldn't allow blowing. OK I think it's established now that ADBV prevents this. But the 5-6 filters I checked all allowed air when sucked on. Some of them were tough at first then "popped open" and allowed some air. My filter also "popped open" and allowed some air but it took more pressure and was less air, making me wonder if the ADBV is compromised.
 
Originally Posted by fatrap314
So I visited Autozone today and blew/sucked on oil filters. They all wouldn't allow blowing. OK I think it's established now that ADBV prevents this. But the 5-6 filters I checked all allowed air when sucked on. Some of them were tough at first then "popped open" and allowed some air. My filter also "popped open" and allowed some air but it took more pressure and was less air, making me wonder if the ADBV is compromised.


All ADBVs should not allow any air flow when blowing into the center hole. It will differ between filters when you suck on the center hole because of all the different ADBV designs ... some are a bit stiffer than others. And a humans mouth is not that good of a 'vacuum cleaner'.

IMO, there is no real reason to suck on the the filter because the powerful PD oil pump will open any ADBV made. Just giving a filter the blow test will tell you if the ADBV is going to seal when the engine is turned off, which is the most important function of the ADBV.
 
Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Originally Posted by fatrap314
So I visited Autozone today and blew/sucked on oil filters. They all wouldn't allow blowing. OK I think it's established now that ADBV prevents this. But the 5-6 filters I checked all allowed air when sucked on. Some of them were tough at first then "popped open" and allowed some air. My filter also "popped open" and allowed some air but it took more pressure and was less air, making me wonder if the ADBV is compromised.


All ADBVs should not allow any air flow when blowing into the center hole. It will differ between filters when you suck on the center hole because of all the different ADBV designs ... some are a bit stiffer than others And a humans mouth is not that good of a 'vacuum cleaner'.

IMO, there is no real reason to suck on the the filter because the powerful PD oil pump will open any ADBV made. Just giving a filter the blow test will tell you if the ADBV is going to seal when the engine is turned off, which is the most important function of the ADBV.



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Originally Posted by ZeeOSix
Lots of vehicles with base up vertical filters spec an ADBV. It's still needed to prevent all the oil in the galleries above the filter from draining down.

Originally Posted by Snagglefoot
Being vertically mounted has nothing to do with keeping oil in the galleries of an engine. This has been discussed at great length in this forum. ADBVs work with any filter orientation are useful for holding oil in the galleries allowing it to reach the bearings immediately upon start up.

Oh I see. I always figured if the filter is full (base up) then the ADBV is not needed. I learned something today. Thanks for your replies.
 
"IMO, there is no real reason to suck on the the filter because the powerful PD oil pump will open any ADBV made."

Probably so. But I was concerned that I could easily open some with my lungs but not the Pro-Tec models that I purchased.
 
Originally Posted by fatrap314
I posted the pics. Do you see what you were hoping to see?

Yes, sorry I thought I responded. It does not look like anything obvious was wrong with the anti-drainback valve, we have seen some pictures posted here where they were clearly defective.
 
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