New Tacoma V6 Break-in and LSPI

[wemay]

I’ve spoken to multiple tuners and I monitor both O2 sensors. I log to see how she runs. The extra octane produced the maximum timing. She does not lean out and the fuel pump handles it without any issues. There is a good amount of misinformation in the owners manual to be honest.

Wrapping my head around this one. But i hope it works for you. Share some pics...

 

[TiGeo]

I just finished my personal break-in procedure on my 23 Tacoma V6 3.5. I switched to Mobil 1 European Formula 5w-40 at 200 miles, since then I have done 2 additional extractions. I’m also a big fan of Liqui Moly’s Cera Tec and just treated the motor at 1200 miles. It definitely helped smooth out the idle, this platform is not known to have this smoothest idle. I’m also tuned and the timing has been pumped up, this probably affects what I’m seeing on the knock sensors. Running e20 mixed with 93 or about 95.5 octane.

I have noticed this engine tends to have a bit tip-in knock or LSPI at initial acceleration. It’s pretty minor but I’m wondering is switching to a GF6 or GF6A oil would help with this. Maybe I’m making an issue out of nothing as the knock is pretty minor but I love seeing it stay at near 0. From what I understand, M1 EF is a very good formulation but do you experts think there is a better one? From the UOA’s I’ve seen 40 weight hot seems to offer some of the best wear metal reduction I’ve seen over 0w-20.

You dont' have LSPI in this engine. You have some knock/det which isn't the same thing....you are seeing incomplete burn/multiple ignition wave fronts after ignition that create the ping/knocking noise that the sensor picks up, not before which is pre-ignition which is very bad....

 

[TiGeo]

Can we go back to the fuel choice? E20? Does the truck OM allow for E20?

Unless this is a flex fuel, you may be running it lean, which exacerbates any knocking tendency, even with added octane.

In genereal the ECU should easily be able to handle E20 without having fuel volume issues that would create a lean running condition....I do it in mine and it's tuned for 93 and beat on it with E20+.

There is a lot of pre-ign vs. det (knock) confusion in this thread.

I agree that ramping up timing on a NA engine to gain a bit of power isn't giving you much...we have a NA tune on my son's Focus and run 93 in it now.

 

[thastinger]

Well, I’m assume it’s LSPI as it matches up with the definition from what I understand. Light throttle, low rpm, higher load. I’m watching the knock sensors via my OBD2 device / Toyota PID’s. This engine makes all its power at higher RPM for the most part. Tends not to happen if you are heavier on the throttle.

50 degrees of timing?

 

[ARB1977]

Yeah, I know what the manual says. It also recommends 0w-20 and they removed the oil chart. Though the service manual allows up to 15w-40. It’s what happens when marketing takes priority over engineering.

Long story short, on 93 under WOT AFR is around 11:9. On e20 it’s in the mid 12’s to low 13’s, stock the truck runs rather rich under open loop. The tune does not adjust AFR, only timing. The extra octane helps also with timing advance.

So you need the tune to run E20? What’s your mpg’s?

 

[Lavrishevo]

Wrapping my head around this one. But i hope it works for you. Share some pics...

Will do, and I’m not saying everything in the manual is wrong but recommendations are often skewed by making maintenance cost appear as low as possible versus longevity recommendations. Like the whole “sealed” transmission deal where they were calling it a lifetime fluid, but only in North America. Aisin recommends a drain and refill every 30k. Especially since Toyota WS fluid is not even synthetic. I’ll be switching to Amsoil transmission and gear oil soon enough. Also, looking at UOA’s I consistently see higher wear metals with those using 20 weight oil, and this make sense. Trading off longevity for a tiny bit more MPG. This annoys me when marketing takes priority over longevity.

Love this truck to tell you the truth.

 

[Pablo]

I have a 2019 Tacoma

MT

This is the key. AT and 3.5 engine = match made by the debil

I also regeared, tuned and a few other mods.

I run 0W-30 in mine but see zero need for XW-40 in this engine. Where did that come from?

Wait, yours is a hybrid? Interesting.

 

[millerbl00]

I assume your not concerned about any warranty denials?

 

[Silverado12]

In genereal the ECU should easily be able to handle E20 without having fuel volume issues that would create a lean running condition....I do it in mine and it's tuned for 93 and beat on it with E20+.

There is a lot of pre-ign vs. det (knock) confusion in this thread.

I agree that ramping up timing on a NA engine to gain a bit of power isn't giving you much...we have a NA tune on my son's Focus and run 93 in it now.

Pre-ignition and spark knock are synonymous. I think you're referring to LSPI

 

[Lavrishevo]

I have a 2019 Tacoma

MT

This is the key. AT and 3.5 engine = match made by the debil

I also regeared, tuned and a few other mods.

I run 0W-30 in mine but see zero need for XW-40 in this engine. Where did that come from?

Wait, yours is a hybrid? Interesting.

Oops sorry, wrong pic. That’s my wife’s car. Also tuned. That pic is deleted and replaced, I also have the 3.5 and the AT.

 

[Pablo]

Oops sorry, wrong pic. That’s my wife’s car. Also tuned. That pic is deleted and replaced, I also have the 3.5 and the AT.

Man I’m like staring at that pic during my edit going WTAF? Hahahaha

 

[Lavrishevo]

So you need the tune to run E20? What’s your mpg’s?

No tune necessary, stock programming responds higher octane. It’s a high compression engine. I tank average 17 - 18 because I’m mostly city. I can get as high as 28 - 30 on the highway under ideal conditions. She drops off a lot over 70 mph. See the pic posted above.

 

[Lavrishevo]

Pre-ignition and spark knock are synonymous. I think you're referring to LSPI

If you are easy on the throttle it lugs a little around 1400 rpm’s and produces a bit of knock. You can’t hear it but I can see it if monitoring the right PID. It’s pretty minor on e20.

 

[Lavrishevo]

I assume you’re not concerned about any warranty denials?

Dealer cannot detect the tune with tech stream and no, not worried.

 

[DirectRejection]

Rings a bearings are seated at the factory. 90% of engine break-in is competed by 500 miles.

It's your Toyota. IMHO as a fellow late model Toyota owner, I would want to go further, and with a good baseline variety of RPMs. Do you have thoughts on the treatment with DLC in mind ? Good luck with your Taco.

 

[Lavrishevo]

Man I’m like staring at that pic during my edit going WTAF? Hahahaha

lol, 2024 hybrid will probably look similar. They are claiming about 27 mpg combined on this new setup.

 

[Lavrishevo]

It's your Toyota. IMHO as a fellow late model Toyota owner, I would want to go further, and with a good baseline variety of RPMs. Do you have thoughts on the treatment with DLC in mind ? Good luck with your Taco.

I get it. I’ve rebuilt a few engines and worked with some very knowledgeable engineers over the years and I’m not worried. Even Amsoil suggest the first oil change be at 200 miles on new vehicles. The reality is these engines are seated on a dyno and it takes upwards of 20 min. It’s a pretty specific thing. Ideally they would flush this oil out but I’m not sure if they do. The rest is a bit of metal to metal contact and wear-in but the important part is done. Believe me, it would be disastrous for the end user if this was not competed at the factory. 95% of the consumers have no clue how to do this.

The reason why I do fluid exchanges early is to reduce the microscopic metal from continually circulating throughout the engine and scoring the internals. This is not picked up by the filter. I have had really good success with this process. It’s pretty universal to see very elevated levels in these first few oil changes via UOA’s. Particularly iron and copper. Anyway, is the benefit that much? I don’t really know but following this method has produced great motors for me that don’t consume oil even when pushed way past their factory setup. For instance, our little Tucson Hybid is pushing 10 lbs of boost over stock. Consumes nothing. My Kia Stinger was Lap 3 Tuned with WMI and over 512 hp / 606 of torque. She also did not consume any oil over 50k miles of pushing that little 3.3 hard. I got rid of her because, well, it was a little too fast and I wanted to get back into off-roading vs speeding tickets... lol Plus they have transmission issues. Exchanging the oil is not going to hurt any more of the wear-in as the rings and bearings are already seated. Using a wear-in or break-in oil only applies to crate motors or a rebuild.

 

[DirectRejection]

Good stuff Lavrishevo !

I am thinking of "beneficial scoring" at the cylinder walls, for starters.

I love the detail you are providing. It not only substantiates. It also educates.

 

[PimTac]

So you changed the intake too? I just saw that.

 

[Lavrishevo]

Good stuff Lavrishevo !

I am thinking of "beneficial scoring" at the cylinder walls, for starters.

I love the detail you are providing. It not only substantiates. It also educates.

This video is pretty cool. They do the same thing at the Toyota assembly plant. It’s funny, the user manual says don’t accelerate hard, don’t go past whatever rpm, lol. Exact opposite of how they seat the rings.