Heh heh I drove a "65 VW microbus for my license road test. And drove bugs for 20 yrs afterward. I wouldn't drive a bug now a days. Too scary.
need advice on a jeep wrangler for my kid
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Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: 02SE
LOL
I know the feeling. When I tell people that my first vehicle at age 16 was a fairly high performance Motorcycle, some people are just apoplectic in their response. Like your Son, I also had enough maturity to not be stupid when operating a vehicle on public roads.
You nailed it. Maturity is the issue. Some kids will be a threat to themselves and others no matter how "safe" their car/truck.
Some adults will be a threat... my new telematics in my fleet vehicles are showing me that. Really, 94 is a 70 zone? Did they forget that the vehicle is tracking them? Uggg. But if you want better examples, youtube is good for that too.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
LOL
I know the feeling. When I tell people that my first vehicle at age 16 was a fairly high performance Motorcycle, some people are just apoplectic in their response. Like your Son, I also had enough maturity to not be stupid when operating a vehicle on public roads.
You nailed it. Maturity is the issue. Some kids will be a threat to themselves and others no matter how "safe" their car/truck.
Some adults will be a threat... my new telematics in my fleet vehicles are showing me that. Really, 94 is a 70 zone? Did they forget that the vehicle is tracking them? Uggg. But if you want better examples, youtube is good for that too.
I had a 2002 TJ Wrangler as a daily driver for 3 years. Rust can be an issue but since you live in the rust belt you already know that one. Check the belly pan bolts on each side as an indicator. Certain year models are better than others but fuel mileage is low. My TJ was not lifted and rode on 31's and the best I could manage is 14mpg. (mostly 13mpg average)
If you can't turn a wrench and work on it yourself then you might as well pass on the jeep. I enjoyed working on mine up to a point but after replacing a cracked head and several other parts including the entire cooling system I lost the love affair. Great to drive, good view of the road, you aren't gonna be speeding anywhere even with the 4.0 engine (which really doesn't give a lot more power than the 4cyl).
Short wheelbase is unforgiving until you get use to it, then jeep really shines in driving, parking, and turning radius. I loved the top down doors off days but for me and a 41 mile trip to work and 41 miles back home I couldn't keep doing it for no other reason than the fuel mileage. It is loud inside, which will probably keep your kid from talking on the cell phone and driving. My recommendation is a toss up but if I couldn't work on it myself it would have broken the bank. If you get a jeep, don't let anyone tell you its more money for a special edition this or that (they just don't add value), get an early TJ with a distributor and avoid the 2000-2002 models due to being prone to the cracked head issue.
If you can't turn a wrench and work on it yourself then you might as well pass on the jeep. I enjoyed working on mine up to a point but after replacing a cracked head and several other parts including the entire cooling system I lost the love affair. Great to drive, good view of the road, you aren't gonna be speeding anywhere even with the 4.0 engine (which really doesn't give a lot more power than the 4cyl).
Short wheelbase is unforgiving until you get use to it, then jeep really shines in driving, parking, and turning radius. I loved the top down doors off days but for me and a 41 mile trip to work and 41 miles back home I couldn't keep doing it for no other reason than the fuel mileage. It is loud inside, which will probably keep your kid from talking on the cell phone and driving. My recommendation is a toss up but if I couldn't work on it myself it would have broken the bank. If you get a jeep, don't let anyone tell you its more money for a special edition this or that (they just don't add value), get an early TJ with a distributor and avoid the 2000-2002 models due to being prone to the cracked head issue.
Don't know how old your son is buy a wrangler is too dangerous for a young driver in my opinion. I wanted one as my first car but it was way to expensive to insure. Maybe a newer grand Cherokee is the safest bet. The old boxy cherokees crumpled like soda cans.
Originally Posted By: Tdog02
I had a 2002 TJ Wrangler as a daily driver for 3 years. Rust can be an issue but since you live in the rust belt you already know that one. Check the belly pan bolts on each side as an indicator. Certain year models are better than others but fuel mileage is low. My TJ was not lifted and rode on 31's and the best I could manage is 14mpg. (mostly 13mpg average)
If you can't turn a wrench and work on it yourself then you might as well pass on the jeep. I enjoyed working on mine up to a point but after replacing a cracked head and several other parts including the entire cooling system I lost the love affair. Great to drive, good view of the road, you aren't gonna be speeding anywhere even with the 4.0 engine (which really doesn't give a lot more power than the 4cyl).
Short wheelbase is unforgiving until you get use to it, then jeep really shines in driving, parking, and turning radius. I loved the top down doors off days but for me and a 41 mile trip to work and 41 miles back home I couldn't keep doing it for no other reason than the fuel mileage. It is loud inside, which will probably keep your kid from talking on the cell phone and driving. My recommendation is a toss up but if I couldn't work on it myself it would have broken the bank. If you get a jeep, don't let anyone tell you its more money for a special edition this or that (they just don't add value), get an early TJ with a distributor and avoid the 2000-2002 models due to being prone to the cracked head issue.
I recall that the only "special" that is worth it would be the TJ Sahara...includes ABS, better stereo, I think both tops, AC, and 31" tires on alloys.
I had a 2002 TJ Wrangler as a daily driver for 3 years. Rust can be an issue but since you live in the rust belt you already know that one. Check the belly pan bolts on each side as an indicator. Certain year models are better than others but fuel mileage is low. My TJ was not lifted and rode on 31's and the best I could manage is 14mpg. (mostly 13mpg average)
If you can't turn a wrench and work on it yourself then you might as well pass on the jeep. I enjoyed working on mine up to a point but after replacing a cracked head and several other parts including the entire cooling system I lost the love affair. Great to drive, good view of the road, you aren't gonna be speeding anywhere even with the 4.0 engine (which really doesn't give a lot more power than the 4cyl).
Short wheelbase is unforgiving until you get use to it, then jeep really shines in driving, parking, and turning radius. I loved the top down doors off days but for me and a 41 mile trip to work and 41 miles back home I couldn't keep doing it for no other reason than the fuel mileage. It is loud inside, which will probably keep your kid from talking on the cell phone and driving. My recommendation is a toss up but if I couldn't work on it myself it would have broken the bank. If you get a jeep, don't let anyone tell you its more money for a special edition this or that (they just don't add value), get an early TJ with a distributor and avoid the 2000-2002 models due to being prone to the cracked head issue.
I recall that the only "special" that is worth it would be the TJ Sahara...includes ABS, better stereo, I think both tops, AC, and 31" tires on alloys.
Something to add that happened to me twice when I owned my 1997 TJ, 2.5L 5spd. Exhaust manifold bolts sheared off the cylinder head leading to an obnoxious exhaust noise (like a bad lifter-tick noise). Both times the local Jeep dealer fixed it under warranty. I don't think this effected the 4.0L of this vintage. Something to do with the bolts and/or heat from the 4cyl version.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Come on M, they can be "dicey" at highway speeds especially if you try and drive them like a "car" or even a crossover.
I still wouldn't call it "dicey"- assuming that you drive with half of your neurons in operating condition. About all I'd want to add to my TJ is ABS.
When my son was in high school he drove the TJ numerous times with no issues, but then I really caught flak from the hand-wringing bedwetters(on this site and others) when they learned that his first car was a 1975 2002 bereft of electronic nannies and not equipped with 25 airbags.
LOL
I know the feeling. When I tell people that my first vehicle at age 16 was a fairly high performance Motorcycle, some people are just apoplectic in their response. Like your Son, I also had enough maturity to not be stupid when operating a vehicle on public roads.
The best vehicle for a young driver is one with a powerful petrol engine (for it's ability to grossly escalate fuel consumption when driven aggressively) and very few electronic nannies, preferably none. For this to work, the young driver must be responsible financially for both fuelling up and maintenance. (Paying european gas prices helps greatly.)
He will learn very fast that a smooth, responsible driving style, looking way ahead will make his brakes last two to five times longer and double his gas mileage. Economical driving requires looking ahead and always being aware of the situation, to predict other's maneuvres... in short, economical driving is safe driving.
Also, do not underestimate the calming effect of such a vehicle. Safe driving is all about psychology. Small underpowered [censored] make you either angry or frightened or both, and thus they make you a bad driver that s prone to make bad decisions. Now put the same driver in the seat of a 1980s S-class... If that does not calm him down, nothing will.
Of those friends and aquaintances who had access to high powered and/or demanding to drive vehicles (deemed "unsafe" by common sense), NONE has ever caused a crash due to inadequate speed on a public road.* Of those who went the "classic" route - a cheap, low-powered compact as first car - there were quite a few.
So a Jeep with it's bad mileage and inadequate road behaviour might actually be a very good idea for a beginning young driver, as a) it forces the driver to pay attention, and b) it is likely to arouse his interest in cars (and consequentially, driving). An "irresponsible" car forces the driver to act responsibly. The biggest factor in determining traffic safety is the driver. The first twi tank full are high risk, but after that, the driver in the "irresponsible" car will be much safer than average...
* The track is a different story...
All of us have also taken part in driver safety courses very early on in our driving careers. Nothing slows down a young hotshot better than SHOWING him in safe place that he CANNOT drive nearly half as good as he thinks.
Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Come on M, they can be "dicey" at highway speeds especially if you try and drive them like a "car" or even a crossover.
I still wouldn't call it "dicey"- assuming that you drive with half of your neurons in operating condition. About all I'd want to add to my TJ is ABS.
When my son was in high school he drove the TJ numerous times with no issues, but then I really caught flak from the hand-wringing bedwetters(on this site and others) when they learned that his first car was a 1975 2002 bereft of electronic nannies and not equipped with 25 airbags.
LOL
I know the feeling. When I tell people that my first vehicle at age 16 was a fairly high performance Motorcycle, some people are just apoplectic in their response. Like your Son, I also had enough maturity to not be stupid when operating a vehicle on public roads.
The best vehicle for a young driver is one with a powerful petrol engine (for it's ability to grossly escalate fuel consumption when driven aggressively) and very few electronic nannies, preferably none. For this to work, the young driver must be responsible financially for both fuelling up and maintenance. (Paying european gas prices helps greatly.)
He will learn very fast that a smooth, responsible driving style, looking way ahead will make his brakes last two to five times longer and double his gas mileage. Economical driving requires looking ahead and always being aware of the situation, to predict other's maneuvres... in short, economical driving is safe driving.
Also, do not underestimate the calming effect of such a vehicle. Safe driving is all about psychology. Small underpowered [censored] make you either angry or frightened or both, and thus they make you a bad driver that s prone to make bad decisions. Now put the same driver in the seat of a 1980s S-class... If that does not calm him down, nothing will.
Of those friends and aquaintances who had access to high powered and/or demanding to drive vehicles (deemed "unsafe" by common sense), NONE has ever caused a crash due to inadequate speed on a public road.* Of those who went the "classic" route - a cheap, low-powered compact as first car - there were quite a few.
So a Jeep with it's bad mileage and inadequate road behaviour might actually be a very good idea for a beginning young driver, as a) it forces the driver to pay attention, and b) it is likely to arouse his interest in cars (and consequentially, driving). An "irresponsible" car forces the driver to act responsibly. The biggest factor in determining traffic safety is the driver. The first twi tank full are high risk, but after that, the driver in the "irresponsible" car will be much safer than average...
* The track is a different story...
All of us have also taken part in driver safety courses very early on in our driving careers. Nothing slows down a young hotshot better than SHOWING him in safe place that he CANNOT drive nearly half as good as he thinks.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: JTK
Something to add that happened to me twice when I owned my 1997 TJ, 2.5L 5spd. Exhaust manifold bolts sheared off the cylinder head leading to an obnoxious exhaust noise (like a bad lifter-tick noise). Both times the local Jeep dealer fixed it under warranty. I don't think this effected the 4.0L of this vintage. Something to do with the bolts and/or heat from the 4cyl version.
That's pretty common. Almost everyone I know with a 2.5 has to re tighten the exhaust manifold bolts once a year.
I wouldn't mind finding a 2.5L wrangler. I like them, basic simple and reliable 4 cylinder engine. And TJs are not dicey at speed. I've also had to make evasive maneuvers in a few of them and never once felt like I was going to tip it.
Something to add that happened to me twice when I owned my 1997 TJ, 2.5L 5spd. Exhaust manifold bolts sheared off the cylinder head leading to an obnoxious exhaust noise (like a bad lifter-tick noise). Both times the local Jeep dealer fixed it under warranty. I don't think this effected the 4.0L of this vintage. Something to do with the bolts and/or heat from the 4cyl version.
That's pretty common. Almost everyone I know with a 2.5 has to re tighten the exhaust manifold bolts once a year.
I wouldn't mind finding a 2.5L wrangler. I like them, basic simple and reliable 4 cylinder engine. And TJs are not dicey at speed. I've also had to make evasive maneuvers in a few of them and never once felt like I was going to tip it.
Originally Posted By: turboseize
The best vehicle for a young driver is one with a powerful petrol engine (for it's ability to grossly escalate fuel consumption when driven aggressively) and very few electronic nannies, preferably none. For this to work, the young driver must be responsible financially for both fuelling up and maintenance. (Paying european gas prices helps greatly.)
He will learn very fast that a smooth, responsible driving style, looking way ahead will make his brakes last two to five times longer and double his gas mileage. Economical driving requires looking ahead and always being aware of the situation, to predict other's maneuvres... in short, economical driving is safe driving.
Also, do not underestimate the calming effect of such a vehicle. Safe driving is all about psychology. Small underpowered [censored] make you either angry or frightened or both, and thus they make you a bad driver that s prone to make bad decisions. Now put the same driver in the seat of a 1980s S-class... If that does not calm him down, nothing will.
Of those friends and aquaintances who had access to high powered and/or demanding to drive vehicles (deemed "unsafe" by common sense), NONE has ever caused a crash due to inadequate speed on a public road.* Of those who went the "classic" route - a cheap, low-powered compact as first car - there were quite a few.
So a Jeep with it's bad mileage and inadequate road behaviour might actually be a very good idea for a beginning young driver, as a) it forces the driver to pay attention, and b) it is likely to arouse his interest in cars (and consequentially, driving). An "irresponsible" car forces the driver to act responsibly. The biggest factor in determining traffic safety is the driver. The first twi tank full are high risk, but after that, the driver in the "irresponsible" car will be much safer than average...
* The track is a different story...
All of us have also taken part in driver safety courses very early on in our driving careers. Nothing slows down a young hotshot better than SHOWING him in safe place that he CANNOT drive nearly half as good as he thinks.
Wait, what??? I think something is lost in cultural translation here. Americans roads have no shortage of cheap, highpowered vehicles... and gas prices are NOT a something that most adults, or even kids think about. If they are going to be thinking about hypermiling here, they will not be in anything with a "Hemi". I would avoid putting a kid in a Ford 5.0 or the LX Charger with a 5.7 or 6.1. The best vehicle would be an old minivan but then you would have to worry about grandkids...
It might be something to that theory for German kids, but I do not think this is a good philosophy for American roads/young drivers. We have a lot of V8 leaving C&C videos to show that this is NOT a good idea (even for those in their 30s). Actually, I think every point of data the insurance industry has about large displacement engines and young divers would prove the opposite case. I knew buddies in highschool who wrapped multiple V8s around various objects. What happened? They just bought another one (and I did not go to a rich HS), these were old Foxbodies, Thunderbirds and TransAms filling up junkyards prematurely. The rootin' trucks (look this up if you want to see what happens when 'Murica gets a hold on displacement and 4x4s) and Jeeps were totaled about as often. The kids who crashed the least were those with 80s Camry's/Buicks/Minivans. After that, it was the smaller-displacement but newer Japenese and import brands. My cohort was the "non-Murica" car-culture and we were likely "average'. Z3s, my 280Z, 300ZX (Z31), Gen1 Eclipse, 5/6th Gen Civic Si/DelSol, Celica Supras (MkI), a "new-fangled" Miata here and there... A Austin-Healey Bug-Eye and maybe some others. Basically the non-V8 performance kids were a lot more "responsible" enthusiast vehicles (granted Fast and the Furious did not exist).
If you want a kid to have a chance to respect a car, normally you need them to build/rebuild it (modding does not count)... or have the fear in god instilled clearly into them. My father's 8" scar and fused spine (partially severed spine due to being a crash) probably did more to teach me to be careful and look for other drivers trying to kill you. However, it has less impact on my younger brother (who would try and do front-end burnouts on a Cadillac). Driving a small 70s era Japanese death-can reinforced that concept that those large displacement vehicles were out to kill me. Finally, there are kids (1 in 10,000) who do try and drive safe. They go on about safety the way we go on about oil... I hire those kids to drive for my fleet. On the other end, I know the kid of former professional drivers who don't give a rats posterior about driving. You can't force it completely.
However, I would not toss a kid into a large displacement vehicle. I would want small-displacement momentum vehicles so they understand that driving is not point-and-squirt.
That being said, no way in [censored] is my son driving the MR2 as a DD... but we will auto-x it like a champ when he turns 16. The Ginny is likely his vehicle... if I do not make him buy a project car... we will see what he is interested in 13 or so years.
The best vehicle for a young driver is one with a powerful petrol engine (for it's ability to grossly escalate fuel consumption when driven aggressively) and very few electronic nannies, preferably none. For this to work, the young driver must be responsible financially for both fuelling up and maintenance. (Paying european gas prices helps greatly.)
He will learn very fast that a smooth, responsible driving style, looking way ahead will make his brakes last two to five times longer and double his gas mileage. Economical driving requires looking ahead and always being aware of the situation, to predict other's maneuvres... in short, economical driving is safe driving.
Also, do not underestimate the calming effect of such a vehicle. Safe driving is all about psychology. Small underpowered [censored] make you either angry or frightened or both, and thus they make you a bad driver that s prone to make bad decisions. Now put the same driver in the seat of a 1980s S-class... If that does not calm him down, nothing will.
Of those friends and aquaintances who had access to high powered and/or demanding to drive vehicles (deemed "unsafe" by common sense), NONE has ever caused a crash due to inadequate speed on a public road.* Of those who went the "classic" route - a cheap, low-powered compact as first car - there were quite a few.
So a Jeep with it's bad mileage and inadequate road behaviour might actually be a very good idea for a beginning young driver, as a) it forces the driver to pay attention, and b) it is likely to arouse his interest in cars (and consequentially, driving). An "irresponsible" car forces the driver to act responsibly. The biggest factor in determining traffic safety is the driver. The first twi tank full are high risk, but after that, the driver in the "irresponsible" car will be much safer than average...
* The track is a different story...
All of us have also taken part in driver safety courses very early on in our driving careers. Nothing slows down a young hotshot better than SHOWING him in safe place that he CANNOT drive nearly half as good as he thinks.
Wait, what??? I think something is lost in cultural translation here. Americans roads have no shortage of cheap, highpowered vehicles... and gas prices are NOT a something that most adults, or even kids think about. If they are going to be thinking about hypermiling here, they will not be in anything with a "Hemi". I would avoid putting a kid in a Ford 5.0 or the LX Charger with a 5.7 or 6.1. The best vehicle would be an old minivan but then you would have to worry about grandkids...
It might be something to that theory for German kids, but I do not think this is a good philosophy for American roads/young drivers. We have a lot of V8 leaving C&C videos to show that this is NOT a good idea (even for those in their 30s). Actually, I think every point of data the insurance industry has about large displacement engines and young divers would prove the opposite case. I knew buddies in highschool who wrapped multiple V8s around various objects. What happened? They just bought another one (and I did not go to a rich HS), these were old Foxbodies, Thunderbirds and TransAms filling up junkyards prematurely. The rootin' trucks (look this up if you want to see what happens when 'Murica gets a hold on displacement and 4x4s) and Jeeps were totaled about as often. The kids who crashed the least were those with 80s Camry's/Buicks/Minivans. After that, it was the smaller-displacement but newer Japenese and import brands. My cohort was the "non-Murica" car-culture and we were likely "average'. Z3s, my 280Z, 300ZX (Z31), Gen1 Eclipse, 5/6th Gen Civic Si/DelSol, Celica Supras (MkI), a "new-fangled" Miata here and there... A Austin-Healey Bug-Eye and maybe some others. Basically the non-V8 performance kids were a lot more "responsible" enthusiast vehicles (granted Fast and the Furious did not exist).
If you want a kid to have a chance to respect a car, normally you need them to build/rebuild it (modding does not count)... or have the fear in god instilled clearly into them. My father's 8" scar and fused spine (partially severed spine due to being a crash) probably did more to teach me to be careful and look for other drivers trying to kill you. However, it has less impact on my younger brother (who would try and do front-end burnouts on a Cadillac). Driving a small 70s era Japanese death-can reinforced that concept that those large displacement vehicles were out to kill me. Finally, there are kids (1 in 10,000) who do try and drive safe. They go on about safety the way we go on about oil... I hire those kids to drive for my fleet. On the other end, I know the kid of former professional drivers who don't give a rats posterior about driving. You can't force it completely.
However, I would not toss a kid into a large displacement vehicle. I would want small-displacement momentum vehicles so they understand that driving is not point-and-squirt.
That being said, no way in [censored] is my son driving the MR2 as a DD... but we will auto-x it like a champ when he turns 16. The Ginny is likely his vehicle... if I do not make him buy a project car... we will see what he is interested in 13 or so years.
Originally Posted By: PeterGreen
So my kid, who has never expressed any interest in cars whatsoever, now says he is saving up to by a Jeep, and by that, I gather he means either a Wrangler or a CJ (he's only going to be able to afford used.)
What are some things to look out for? Are some years better than others, are there some that should be avoided. I assume they all have six or eight cylinder engines and I would want him to have a six, and would want a roll bar.
My oldest son (senior in high school) drives a 2004 Wrangler Rubicon. It has the 4.0 inline 6. It has 167,000 miles and never had a wrench on it, except for regular maintenance. I was a little worried about it because of the potential rollover if you drive like an idiot in it, but thankfully he's been great in it. Bought a hard top for it last summer, which makes all the difference in the world from heating and cooling the interior to the in cab noise level.
I'm not sure what year Chrysler stopped making the inline 6, but my advice would be to get that motor. I don't think the v6 holds a candle to it. It will last a very long time if you take care of it. It's a torque-y little motor too. Fuel mileage isn't the best but not the worst either. Lastly, not many vehicles hold their value like Wranglers do. I bought this one in 2011 or 2012 and I could get a little more than I paid for it then. That is a big plus. Wranglers are in high demand.
So my kid, who has never expressed any interest in cars whatsoever, now says he is saving up to by a Jeep, and by that, I gather he means either a Wrangler or a CJ (he's only going to be able to afford used.)
What are some things to look out for? Are some years better than others, are there some that should be avoided. I assume they all have six or eight cylinder engines and I would want him to have a six, and would want a roll bar.
My oldest son (senior in high school) drives a 2004 Wrangler Rubicon. It has the 4.0 inline 6. It has 167,000 miles and never had a wrench on it, except for regular maintenance. I was a little worried about it because of the potential rollover if you drive like an idiot in it, but thankfully he's been great in it. Bought a hard top for it last summer, which makes all the difference in the world from heating and cooling the interior to the in cab noise level.
I'm not sure what year Chrysler stopped making the inline 6, but my advice would be to get that motor. I don't think the v6 holds a candle to it. It will last a very long time if you take care of it. It's a torque-y little motor too. Fuel mileage isn't the best but not the worst either. Lastly, not many vehicles hold their value like Wranglers do. I bought this one in 2011 or 2012 and I could get a little more than I paid for it then. That is a big plus. Wranglers are in high demand.
Originally Posted By: Big_3_Only
PeterGreen said:
The value is only really staying strong for the 4.0L powered TJ wranglers. Just look at the value of the 3.8 V6 JK Wranglers. You can find newer 3.8L JK Wranglers for less money than similar mileage 4.0 TJs. I predict the value will go down for the 3.6L Wranglers in a few years as well, simply because there are so many out there. I sat in a 2017 JK Wrangler, and wasn't very impressed with the build quality for the money. The Sahara JK Wranglers are nice, but those are also pushing 50+ Grand.
Edit: 2004 is the year to get for the 4.0 engine. Newest and most reliable. 2005-2006 had a revision done to the oil pump drive for the cam sensor, and Chrysler managed to F that up. Some are fine for 100k+ miles, others fail from lack of lubrication. This causes the shaft to snap, and then you lose oil pressure. It's not a hard part to replace, but something to be aware of. I'd take a higher mileage 2004 over a 2005-2006.
Edit: 2004 is the year to get for the 4.0 engine. Newest and most reliable. 2005-2006 had a revision done to the oil pump drive for the cam sensor, and Chrysler managed to F that up. Some are fine for 100k+ miles, others fail from lack of lubrication. This causes the shaft to snap, and then you lose oil pressure. It's not a hard part to replace, but something to be aware of. I'd take a higher mileage 2004 over a 2005-2006.
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So the ending to this story is we decided to go with a low mileage lease on a brand new 2018 JK Wrangler. Because these have such good resale values, the lease is very reasonable and my kid doesn't really drive that much so it all worked out -- a brand new Jeep with a sturdy factory roll bar and a decent sounding stereo system, much happier than buying a used one. Got the Wrangler Sport 4 door with a rag top. My kid is very happy.
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