need advice on a jeep wrangler for my kid

[Nick1994]

Watch out for the model years with the 0331 head in the 4.0L.

The 4.0L is a fantastic engine, but these Jeeps need a lot of work and tinkering to keep them on the road (Ask me how I know!). Cooling systems need lots of attention, and lots of other little things. Great car if he wants to get his hands a little dirty and learn and have some fun. They're pretty simple.

 

[AZjeff]

Originally Posted By: PeterGreen
So my kid, who has never expressed any interest in cars whatsoever, now says he is saving up to by a Jeep, and by that, I gather he means either a Wrangler or a CJ (he's only going to be able to afford used.)

What are some things to look out for? Are some years better than others, are there some that should be avoided. I assume they all have six or eight cylinder engines and I would want him to have a six, and would want a roll bar.


CJs have long since rotting into the ground in NY. Do some honest searching about Wrangler safety ratings. "It's a Jeep thing you wouldn't understand" is a true statement. You didn't mention budget but a low priced Jeep is a project/hobby. If your son isn't mechanically inclined it might not be the best choice unless you want a new hobby.

This is level-headed article about Wranglers and first time drivers: http://www.4-the-love-of-jeeps.com/jeep-wrangler-safety.html

 

[JimPghPA]

If he is planing on doing off roading that may result in it flipping, along with a roll bar he definitely should upgrade the seat belts to an X belt like professional race cars use.

The neighbor who use to live two doors up the street rolled his jeep three complete times when he was clipped on a rear corner. He only had the factory seat belt on and it did not hold him. He was really messed up, and ended up with several surgeries on his spine. Physically he never was anywhere near normal after that accident. A race car type belt would have saved him from most if not all of his injuries.

 

[Alex_V]

The CJ5 is the oldest model that's practical to DD for most people, being discontinued in '83 and offered with 1- or 2-barrel sub-125 horsepower inline 6's or a 304 V8 and 3- or 4-speed manual, or 3-speed automatic transmissions. The CJ7, made from '76 to '87, has a 10-inch longer wheel base and is generally a bit more modernized and beefier in regards to suspension and frame, but some of the 80's drivetrains really sucked - however, still available with inline 6's and the 304. The YJ (square headlight) Wrangler came along in '87 and came with a 2.5 4 cylinder (barely adequate power to avoid just becoming an obstacle on a freeway but very durable and can get over 20 MPG if tuned properly) or the 4.0 inline six, with 5-speed manual or 3- or 4-speed automatics. The drivetrain variety didn't change much for the TJ (round headlight) but of course tech and creature comforts continually improved and a nicely optioned TJ is a nice vehicle. This was the first appearance of the "Unlimited" model, at that time just being slightly stretched but still only having two doors. The newest generation (JK) started in '07 and the only engine option was the 3.8L V6 as seen in Caravans, etc. until 2012? when it was replaced by the much more advanced and powerful 3.6L Pentastar V6. Also, the JK generation saw the Unlimited model turned into a 4-door.

In general, the Jeep CJ/Wrangler at least through the YJ era, maybe even TJ era, is a bouncy, quirky vehicle that, in comparison to 90% of the other car models made in the last 40 years, is second only to a motorcycle in exposure to the elements and to hazards. What makes them great also begats a different respect for how to operate them safely - they're tall, narrow, and light, with much less protection on the sides and top than almost every other car. That isn't as true of the JK, but they're hard to touch under $10K that's the vehicle under consideration here. If your son sees a black CJ7 Renegade with side pipes, a V8, 35" tires and a 6" lift and wants to have one like that to show off in, that's a darned expensive goal and a vehicle that's even less practical and safe for daily use than it was originally. (I'm not accusing him of anything, just laying out a theoretical.) Would I DD one through all weather and any traffic? Absolutely - but depending on how you judge your son's sense about driving responsibly he may need a little more stern pep-talk before gaining freedom with this kind of vehicle, or have no business driving one in the first place depending on how you guage his skill and maturity.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Why so much Jeep hate? My TJ is not Tippy at all. I drove it 125K as my daily driver. I rides decent...Not a cadillac but decent enough. Power with the 6 cylinder is good. MPg is lacking but thats a jeep thing. The 4 cyl isn't any better on mpg.


Agreed; I bought my TJ in 2002 for a campaign parade car and fully intended to flip it after the election. As it turned out my wife, son, and I all really liked it- and it's been a part of our family ever since.


The TJ is akin to nice riding car with respectable handling and has Volvo like safety on road compared to a Wrangler YJ (first gen square headlights) and Jeep CJ.

 

[totegoat]

You and your son should look here: http://www.wranglerforum.com/

I really enjoy my TJ, but it has to be driven heads up. Very loud inside with soft top. Will help if you are mechanically inclined and own plenty of tools, including a floor jack, jack stands, and have patience.

 

[meep]

main thing I'd be concerned about as a parent is that they are unforgiving in the rain. As a parent I might insist his first set of tires are chosen for wet traction and not offroad or looks. The light rear and relatively short wheelbase will not be kind to him if he gets stupid - especially on sweeping turns like on-ramps. That said, if he has an interest in turning a wrench and making it his, and taking care of it, it's a good vehicle, and would be much fun at that age.

 

[supton]

Will he drive it to school? I wouldn't want a soft top if I was. Too easy to break into. My boss had a soft top in college; didn't matter that it snapped in place. Thieves would always use a knife to get what they wanted.

Insurance would be my big concern.

 

[JTK]

For a kid, I'd go for as new of a TJ as you can find/afford. Something with the 2.5L is slow, but reliable with the ancient 3spd auto or 5spd manual. The 4.0L has a lot more power if you're OK with that for a young driver.

I had a 1997 TJ hardtop with the 2.5L and 5spd manual. A great riding vehicle, but terrible for a daily driver for my particular needs.

 

[FutureDoc]

I agree about the kid doing the research and acting as a 'voice of reason' behind the scenes.

If you or your son has never spent time in a JEEP, then go out and RENT one.

Why? My brother was after a Jeep for his first car (first self purchased car). Shame, he had to drive a '98 Sebring during that time. However, while saving up, he ended up with a rooommate in college who had one. He got to spend some time with it and HATED it. The money he was saving up for ended up going to a top-trim Accord. He is not a car person but he knows what he likes.

The reason for this is that Jeep are very visceral. You love it and are willing to live with it or.... they are some of the worst things ever created and some folks would prefer venereal disease than to have a Jeep. I like them, but I would never own one. Others love them. My worry is that if your son has never experienced a Jeep and is not a car-person then that Jeep could be a big roll of the dice. He could be stuck with a car he hates at a time when changing cars is expensive relatively speaking.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
...The reason for this is that Jeep are very visceral. You love it and are willing to live with it or.... they are some of the worst things ever created and some folks would prefer venereal disease than to have a Jeep. I like them, but I would never own one. Others love them. My worry is that if your son has never experienced a Jeep and is not a car-person then that Jeep could be a big roll of the dice. He could be stuck with a car he hates at a time when changing cars is expensive relatively speaking.


I agree with this.

They are not great in the snow or inclement weather situations. They are cold in the winter and hot in the summer. Stuff plasters to the flat windshield. I know my TJ was dicey at highway speeds as well.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: JTK

They are not great in the snow or inclement weather situations. They are cold in the winter and hot in the summer. Stuff plasters to the flat windshield. I know my TJ was dicey at highway speeds as well.


The heater and A/C work great in my 1999 TJ- and I've driven it in both 0F and 100F ambient temperatures. With respect to snow, my TJ easily made it out our un-plowed gravel driveway in 2WD- after a 15" snowfall:

As for being "dicey" at highway speed? Mine is stable up to 70 mph; maybe your TJ's front ARB links were shot. Fitting Bilstein HDs to mine probably didn't hurt...

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: JTK

They are not great in the snow or inclement weather situations. They are cold in the winter and hot in the summer. Stuff plasters to the flat windshield. I know my TJ was dicey at highway speeds as well.


The heater and A/C work great in my 1999 TJ- and I've driven it in both 0F and 100F ambient temperatures. With respect to snow, my TJ easily made it out our un-plowed gravel driveway in 2WD- after a 15" snowfall:


As for being "dicey" at highway speed? Mine is stable up to 70 mph; maybe your TJ's front ARB links were shot. Fitting Bilstein HDs to mine probably didn't hurt...


Come on M, they can be "dicey" at highway speeds especially if you try and drive them like a "car" or even a crossover.

If you are methodical on the highway and know the limits of the vehicle, there is little to no issue. Still not as good as other vehicles but less of an issue. It is like taking a Mazda3 off-roading... if you keep it within the limits of the car, fine but after that... it is the wrong vehicle. If you need to make non-dinosaur-like lane changes or adjustments or have bad/ungulating pavement, they can be caught out of sorts very easily. Otherwise in a well-aware driver hands, they are perfectly fine.

Now, lets take that the OP is talking about this vehicle as daily for a young driver. A young driver will make it a dicey vehicle.

As for inclement weather... I am on the fence about that. They aren't "great" in bad weather (the vertical windshield is a good point), but they are very capable in bad conditions. It is a mixed bag. The problem is that a lot of folks treat them an invincible vehicles in bad weather. Again, that chassis is not as forgiving and "gets dicey" and out of sorts. If you need something to "crawl" out of bad weather, they are fantastic with the right tires... but if it is dealing with a curvy/hilly iced road with a lot of weight transfer, then the suspension can suffer... and lord have mercy on your soul if you don't have the right tires in that situation. I find that there is a big difference between off-road ability and on-road inclement weather driving... folks tend to forget that. Again, people must driving within the ability of the vehicle/tires. Personally, I would rather have my Subaru for the inclement weather but it is not an off-road crawler. For that, I would go with a Jeep (or Toyota FJ).

 

[Ducked]

I don't know much about them, but the mechanic I bought a radiator hose from tried to interest me in an '89 model, understandably given that very few Taiwanese would buy anything that old, and I gave it a look-over.

I'd seriously consider one if my current car died and I was staying in Taiwan, but I was surprised by how apparently crude it was. I mean really crude.

Bear in mind that I have owned and liked a Lada. This seemed quite a lot cruder than that. Think unsuccessful 70's kit car, if you had them in the US.

Still, it looked as if it might be fairly easy to work on, which'd be a big plus for me, but here I'd also look at a Suzuki Vitara.

In the US I'd probably look for a truck (illegal for foreigners here) or an old Landcruiser.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc

Come on M, they can be "dicey" at highway speeds especially if you try and drive them like a "car" or even a crossover.


I still wouldn't call it "dicey"- assuming that you drive with half of your neurons in operating condition. About all I'd want to add to my TJ is ABS.

When my son was in high school he drove the TJ numerous times with no issues, but then I really caught flak from the hand-wringing bedwetters(on this site and others) when they learned that his first car was a 1975 2002 bereft of electronic nannies and not equipped with 25 airbags.

 

[FutureDoc]

Originally Posted By: MCompact


[b]Assuming[/b] that you drive with half of your neurons in operating condition. About all I'd want to add to my TJ is ABS.


This is the key. I assume that most do not even have 1/10 of their neurons in operating condition and those that are functioning are often distracted.

Why I have to have "come to motoring jesus moments" with some people who think driving down a unpaved mountain road in a Caravan with the doors wide open (in "jeep" mode) is beyond me. I hope that your son at least has an interest in and attention to cars... when they do not have an interest then assuming the worst is a safe option. However, not knowing the kid buying the Jeep and making recommendations, I will error on the cautious side. Wranglers do not quite behave like the normal SUV/Crossover and have different dynamics. If you treat it like a "car", it will be dicey. I would put my MR2 in that same category. For the "normal" driver, it could be a dicey car. Drive it properly with attention to its specific dynamics and it is fine.

Still, that is why I would recommend them going down to rent-a-car and trying one for a bit before they go purchasing one for a young driver without any background.

Originally Posted By: MCompact
When my son was in high school he drove the TJ numerous times with no issues, but then I really caught flak from the hand-wringing bedwetters(on this site and others) when they learned that his first car was a 1975 2002 bereft of electronic nannies and not equipped with 25 airbags.


Lucky him. I survived with a 280Z as a HS DD. Actually, between the Z and the 2002, those were the best sportscars of that decade and a great bit or rivalry there. My younger brother's friend had a tii ... and he stuffedit into a guardrail. He was ok, but dang, such a sad moment. Lets take a moment of silence for that one...

Heck, I think you saw it when I was buying the Genesis. but if you want flack, join me when I put my son in the MR2 at daycare.

 

[JTK]

Originally Posted By: MCompact


The heater and A/C work great in my 1999 TJ- and I've driven it in both 0F and 100F ambient temperatures. With respect to snow, my TJ easily made it out our un-plowed gravel driveway in 2WD- after a 15" snowfall:


The HVAC system definitely worked great in my 1997 TJ as well. Mine was an odd-ball having been ordered by someone with A/C, but being a base 2.5L 5spd model w/ hardtop. The A/C would freeze you out of the cabin. Great heat, but you had to keep the fan on higher settings to keep the cabin warm. There's no real cabin insulation, so it is what it is. You have to know that going into it. When I owned my TJ, my work commute grew to a ~70 mile round-trip hike that wasn't fun with this particular vehicular format. I was in my late 20s at the time.

In regards to my dicey handling comment above, this was with respect to a young, inexperienced driver. OTOH, TJs rated well for crash worthiness and weren't expensive to insure, atleast back in the day.

 

[02SE]

Originally Posted By: MCompact
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc

Come on M, they can be "dicey" at highway speeds especially if you try and drive them like a "car" or even a crossover.


I still wouldn't call it "dicey"- assuming that you drive with half of your neurons in operating condition. About all I'd want to add to my TJ is ABS.

When my son was in high school he drove the TJ numerous times with no issues, but then I really caught flak from the hand-wringing bedwetters(on this site and others) when they learned that his first car was a 1975 2002 bereft of electronic nannies and not equipped with 25 airbags.


LOL

I know the feeling. When I tell people that my first vehicle at age 16 was a fairly high performance Motorcycle, some people are just apoplectic in their response. Like your Son, I also had enough maturity to not be stupid when operating a vehicle on public roads.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: FutureDoc

Heck, I think you saw it when I was buying the Genesis. but if you want flack, join me when I put my son in the MR2 at daycare.

There's a poor sod on one of the '02 forums who is married to a nitwit who won't let their kids ride in his '02 under any circumstances.

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: 02SE

LOL

I know the feeling. When I tell people that my first vehicle at age 16 was a fairly high performance Motorcycle, some people are just apoplectic in their response. Like your Son, I also had enough maturity to not be stupid when operating a vehicle on public roads.


You nailed it. Maturity is the issue. Some kids will be a threat to themselves and others no matter how "safe" their car/truck.