Maybe I'm crazy - changing engine oil at 500 miles

[JeepJKU08]

Originally Posted by Gokhan
I had bought a brand-new Toyota in 2008 and changed the oil every time with M1 0W-20 SM, which was a PAO-based formulation. However, I didn't realize that the factory-fill TGMO 0W-20 SM was a great oil as well and it had 800 ppm moly.

The current ExxonMobil-made TGMO 0W-20 SN fill I have is GTL with 800 ppm moly. The latest version of TGMO probably doesn't have high moly though.

BP/Castrol 0W-20? It's mediocre at best. M1 0W-20? A good oil but you don't know if the additive pack is more suitable for break-in.

The point is that you are looking at fancy colored graphics and names on oil bottles and you're assuming that they are superior oils over a factory fill that comes in a black bottle. The fact is that you don't know and there is a good chance that they are not as good as the factory fill. For example, I would rather keep the 800 ppm high-moly oil in during the break-in.


Maybe so. Castrol has been around a long time. Had a Samurai that had a blown head gasket. Of course this was years ago but the tech asked me what I used in It which was 20w50 gtx. He could not believe how clean and how little wear on everything. Cylinder walls looked like they were honed. That right there was all I needed to see.

 

[Gokhan]

I remember the infamous Suzuki Samurai that Consumer Reports had declared unsafe due to rollovers and a lawsuit by Suzuki had followed. A friend of mine had bought one, and he ran out of oil and the engine seized.

I used to run Castrol GTX 10W-40 and Castrol GTX 10W-30 in the past.

Castrol Edge is using Group III. It should be good but some competitors (including TGMO 0W-16 and TGMO 0W-20) use GTL and even PAO. So, the base-oil-wise, they don't have the "edge." Otherwise, Castrol Edge is a good oil and Castrol GTX is only slightly inferior to it in base oil.

 

[MrQuackers]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by TRDPRO85
Probably excessive but I've always liked letting it drain for at least a good day to two days. The last few drops are always the most contaminated.



That's a bit crazy but whatever pleases you. Don't forget and start it up with no oil.


I love this guy, ha!

 

[pitzel]

Originally Posted by spasm3

I guess i can really tweak your cookies by telling you my CX-5 is on its forth change at 7500 miles.

First one at 400 miles
Second at 1200 miles
Third at 2800 miles
Last one at 7300miles

I'm pretty much going to settle in at 4500-5k max due to the fuel dilution.


I suspect you may have increased susceptibility to the dreaded intake valve deposits. So you might win one perceived battle (fuel dilution and wear that may arise due to such) at the expense of a relatively difficult/expensive process of de-carbonizing the valves and dealing with potential issues of FOD arising from such. Not to mention an increase in fuel consumption due to loss of pumping efficiency if indeed such deposits form.

Additional fuel in the oil volatilized through the PCV may be protective though of such deposits. The so-called 'fuel dilution' issues may actually have been deliberately engineered into such designs to protect against the intake valve deposits by increasing PCV flow of vapourized fuel that, mixed with oil vapours, may be less susceptible to deposit formation.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted by TRDPRO85
It's not that Mobil is a bad oil I just think for the money there's better.



I don't know about that....$26 for a 5qt jug at walmart is pretty reasonable for the level of product you get with Mobil 1 and that is the Extended Performance version. It is hard to beat Mobil 1 or Pennzoil Platinum off the shelf.

 

[dailydriver]

Originally Posted by pitzel
Originally Posted by spasm3

I guess i can really tweak your cookies by telling you my CX-5 is on its forth change at 7500 miles.

First one at 400 miles
Second at 1200 miles
Third at 2800 miles
Last one at 7300miles

I'm pretty much going to settle in at 4500-5k max due to the fuel dilution.


I suspect you may have increased susceptibility to the dreaded intake valve deposits. So you might win one perceived battle (fuel dilution and wear that may arise due to such) at the expense of a relatively difficult/expensive process of de-carbonizing the valves and dealing with potential issues of FOD arising from such. Not to mention an increase in fuel consumption due to loss of pumping efficiency if indeed such deposits form.

Additional fuel in the oil volatilized through the PCV may be protective though of such deposits. The so-called 'fuel dilution' issues may actually have been deliberately engineered into such designs to protect against the intake valve deposits by increasing PCV flow of vapourized fuel that, mixed with oil vapours, may be less susceptible to deposit formation.



I would have to see a study done on the total effects vs. costs for the above to take it as 'gospel', as well as seeing a DEFINITIVE confirmation by the various DI/GTDI engine manufacturers' power train engineers as to this being their reasons for on purpose fuel dilution being programmed into their PCM/ECM fuel trim configurations/logarithms.

Speculation ain't gonna 'cut it' for me.

 

[spasm3]

Originally Posted by pitzel

I suspect you may have increased susceptibility to the dreaded intake valve deposits. So you might win one perceived battle (fuel dilution and wear that may arise due to such) at the expense of a relatively difficult/expensive process of de-carbonizing the valves and dealing with potential issues of FOD arising from such. Not to mention an increase in fuel consumption due to loss of pumping efficiency if indeed such deposits form.

Additional fuel in the oil volatilized through the PCV may be protective though of such deposits. The so-called 'fuel dilution' issues may actually have been deliberately engineered into such designs to protect against the intake valve deposits by increasing PCV flow of vapourized fuel that, mixed with oil vapours, may be less susceptible to deposit formation.




Interesting thought. But you must have missed my fuel laden uoa. https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/u...a-cx-5-m1-0w30-afe-4500miles#Post4940160

But i have fuel dilution due to 8 mile trips. This is present whether i change oil at 4500 miles or 7500+. The early changes were for break-in, I'm going to do 4500-5k changes from here out, and will work some longer trips in once a week or so.

 

[Quantico]

I have purchased maybe ten new cars and 20 used ones in my life. I have always changed oil around 1500 miles to give the engine a chance to wear in a bit. After one or two low mileage changes I go to 5000 or 6000. Mile changes.
I trust most auto maker stuff. But they are lying like crazy about the sealed dont ever service auto transmissions. So they are only interested in avoiding warranty claims in my opinion.
I do and always have owned sports cars that do not go out in wisconsin salty winter. I prefer to change oil very close to the storage start as I feel clean oil sitting in an engine over 6 months is a better deal. I dont have data or facts or engineering.. just what is common sense to me.

 

[SammyChevelleTypeS3]

Originally Posted by TRDPRO85
At 500 miles I've decided to change my oil. I know Toyota says 10,000 but the initial break in is the most important as it can really determine the overall life of the engine or whatever component you're changing the fluid in. Maybe I'm old school not really crazy about the Mobil 1 either went with Castrol edge 0w20.

From here on out I'll probably do four to five thousand mile oil changes. Oils cheap replacing drivetrain components is not. Probably a little overkill but I would rather be safe than sorry.


Excess oil changes can accelerate those valve deposit problems on the direct injection engines.

Please explain how too much fresh lubricants accelerates deposits. Not yanking your chain, truly want to know this thought process that many of us may not realize.

 

[gregk24]

I'm all for the early change. 1000, 2500, 5000 then every 5000 thereafter on the new Jetta.

 

[CheezWhiz]

i see a lot of obsessive threads on here, yet i almost never hear of an engine actually wearing out anymore. in days past, you’d see engines blowing blue smoke, losing compression, rod knocks, etc. but that seems like it never happens anymore?

not saying we shouldn’t take care of our cars - we clearly should. but considering how many people don’t even follow the manual and they evidently still aren’t wearing out many engines before the rest of the car is completely shot, are any of us doing any actual good with short oci’s, expensive oils, alternative viscosities, additives, etc.?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

I'm all for the early change. 1000, 2500, 5000 then every 5000 thereafter on the new Jetta.

That Jetta came with excellent oil and a excellent quality high capacity filter. I am sad to see that oil be gone so early!
I recall driving in my 2019 jetta and saying to myself - wow this oil is good I wonder what it is!

 

[tmorris1]

It's not that Mobil is a bad oil I just think for the money there's better.

Aren't they all within a buck or 2?

 

[Shel_B]

Originally Posted by TRDPRO85
At 500 miles I've decided to change my oil. I know Toyota says 10,000 but the initial break in is the most important as it can really determine the overall life of the engine or whatever component you're changing the fluid in. Maybe I'm old school not really crazy about the Mobil 1 either went with Castrol edge 0w20.

From here on out I'll probably do four to five thousand mile oil changes. Oils cheap replacing drivetrain components is not. Probably a little overkill but I would rather be safe than sorry.


Excess oil changes can accelerate those valve deposit problems on the direct injection engines.

Never heard such a thing. Also, Toyota uses both DI and port injection.

 

[ARB1977]

At 500 miles I've decided to change my oil. I know Toyota says 10,000 but the initial break in is the most important as it can really determine the overall life of the engine or whatever component you're changing the fluid in. Maybe I'm old school not really crazy about the Mobil 1 either went with Castrol edge 0w20.

From here on out I'll probably do four to five thousand mile oil changes. Oils cheap replacing drivetrain components is not. Probably a little overkill but I would rather be safe than sorry.

I don’t believe that theory. I had a 2002 Tacoma and went the full 5K before it’s first oil change. 190K later no issues. My current Tacoma I bought used. I’m pretty sure the first owner did the same with conventional oil. 107K now no issues.

 

[Crash Bandicoot]

i see a lot of obsessive threads on here, yet i almost never hear of an engine actually wearing out anymore. in days past, you’d see engines blowing blue smoke, losing compression, rod knocks, etc. but that seems like it never happens anymore?

not saying we shouldn’t take care of our cars - we clearly should. but considering how many people don’t even follow the manual and they evidently still aren’t wearing out many engines before the rest of the car is completely shot, are any of us doing any actual good with short oci’s, expensive oils, alternative viscosities, additives, etc.?

Not sure regarding the OCIs since I think there are a few threads about Toyota 10k mile OCIs and elevated burn rate, most MFG OCIs seem to be pretty reasonable though. The rest is likely true, for normal driving and normal cars the cheapest full synthetic that has the correct approvals and in the right viscosity changed out at 5k intervals is in my opinion unlikely to have an oil related engine failure unless the engine has some sort of QC flaw in it. This is like a HiFi forum though where people like experimenting with different stuff for fun at the expense of their disposable income.

 

[Graham Piccinini]

i see a lot of obsessive threads on here, yet i almost never hear of an engine actually wearing out anymore. in days past, you’d see engines blowing blue smoke, losing compression, rod knocks, etc. but that seems like it never happens anymore?

not saying we shouldn’t take care of our cars - we clearly should. but considering how many people don’t even follow the manual and they evidently still aren’t wearing out many engines before the rest of the car is completely shot, are any of us doing any actual good with short oci’s, expensive oils, alternative viscosities, additives, etc.?

Well, let's see here... Small turbocharged engines (1.0L/1.5L/2.0L) from Ford and Chevy that melt pistons at low miles. Kia/Huyndai 2.0L and 2.4L engines seem to be a hit or miss. Somehow some last 250k miles with shady maintenance, others throw a rod or start knocking at 20k-60k miles without a warning and with proper service intervals. Toyota engines that burn oil at low mileages due to low tension piston rings. Honda engines that kill turbos and bearings when oil gets overdosed on fuel in oil. I'm sure there are more. I haven't had any of these vehicles, but that's the issues the model-specific forums complain about so far. But overall yes - I do agree that there are a lot less failures these days as compared to 30+ year old vehicles.

 

[PF52]

Here's the oil at the bottom of a cut-open filter from a brand-new car. If the "sparkles" in the oil bother you, the oil change was probably a good idea. If not, maybe it was a waste of money. Like they say, your mileage may vary.

 

[Bailes1992]

I'm so glad to have the oppotunity to respond to this nearly 3 year old thread without looking like a total lunatic.

 

[TumblrDucks]

Hyundai dealer tech did early oil change for his new Taco. No need to say more.