Internet Sales Tax O.K.ed by Supreme Court

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
Originally Posted By: sloinker
What makes no sense to me is the fact that unless the online retailer has a physical presence in the state they aren't utilizing the services that state/local taxes pay for. Namely law enforcement, fire and infrastructure. Why should they?


because a sales tax is a usage tax on the person buying the product. not the seller. Therefore your whole argument is shaky.

You're supposed to selfreport stuff you bought out state and have not paid salestax on you state annual return.

What you are describing is an Excise tax which is a tax that the producer pays.

ultimately the end final price can be made the same, but if you want to get into the technicalities the first step is to distinguish between excise vs. sales or use.


The argument was that a "small business" halfway across the country is not expected to know the intricacies of every state's sales tax laws. If, however, they showed their face in said locality, they were expected to take the time to get acquainted with said laws.

I pay my amazon state sales tax but get 90% of it back using the Chase rewards CC.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
I am shocked it took this long to decide that.

What may happen in a few years is another tax where we are charged a small tax for every state Fedex, UPS.... etc..... transports our purchase.

Example:
If your purchase something in Florida and want it in Michigan, you pay a small amount of transport tax to Georgia, Tennessee, Kentucky and Ohio.


The Interstate Commerce clause of the Constitution would void that out before it got off the ground.

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: supton
I missed where they said how it was to be charged? I mean, if I buy from a store located in NY, do I pay NY sales tax? Seems like I'd be better off buying from a store in NH (no sales tax) or some other state with a low sales tax. [Assuming the total cost is cheapest.]

Seems to me that they could charge based upon ship to address. Ship to NY, pay NY sales tax. Ship to NH, pay NH tax. Etc. Quick and easy. Just like if you walked into a store in that particular state. Sorta like car sales tax, but based upon ship to. I think that might skirt some privacy issues and make it easy. Just build it into the sales software. Could transfer funds at end of day or end of month to the respective states.


And that is exactly what they already do in some cases

Since NH has no sales tax, you are not affected by this at all, since there is no sales tax in NH.


So... you're saying I can put away the pitchfork and torches then?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Still think we should look at a flat rate tax, for everything. No income tax, no state tax, no alternative tax, nothing but a flat tax on sales. You spend money, you pay the tax. You horde your money, you pay less tax. Every time you buy something, everyone pays the same amount of tax on the purchase price. Then it's split up between the state and federal government what comes in from the flat tax. That way the really rich people can't pay a CPA to find and exploit all kinds of loopholes to help somebody making $1M+ a year pay less in taxes than somebody making $35k a year.

It can't get much simpler. 20% flat tax on every purchase, every day, everywhere. The only way the governments get more money is to help people make more and encourage them to spend more.

 

[ozric]

Quote:
It can't get much simpler. 20% flat tax on every purchase, every day, everywhere. The only way the governments get more money is to help people make more and encourage them to spend more.


Flat sales tax for everyone is the best way to do it, but ...

There's a lot of money and power involved in carving out exemptions/loopholes in the existing tax system. The people involved will never give up that power. I remember when H&R Block testified before congress that people would not want a simple tax system. Of course they would say that, they make a killing preparing taxes for people as a result of complicated tax law.

 

[4WD]

Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Was anyone seriously expecting this not to happen eventually?
And it won't make brick and mortar stores any more viable.


Yep … had quit Amazon long ago and thinned out on online spending already … I’m getting back where I like to look at and compare a few things … and the clearance aisle in several stores is like “happy hunting” … not just oil … totally cleaned house on some pool chlorine the other day … other lawn & garden stuff …
Get off my tail end a bit more too … walk that store a while …

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: slacktide_bitog
Originally Posted By: supton
I missed where they said how it was to be charged? I mean, if I buy from a store located in NY, do I pay NY sales tax? Seems like I'd be better off buying from a store in NH (no sales tax) or some other state with a low sales tax. [Assuming the total cost is cheapest.]

Seems to me that they could charge based upon ship to address. Ship to NY, pay NY sales tax. Ship to NH, pay NH tax. Etc. Quick and easy. Just like if you walked into a store in that particular state. Sorta like car sales tax, but based upon ship to. I think that might skirt some privacy issues and make it easy. Just build it into the sales software. Could transfer funds at end of day or end of month to the respective states.


And that is exactly what they already do in some cases

Since NH has no sales tax, you are not affected by this at all, since there is no sales tax in NH.


So... you're saying I can put away the pitchfork and torches then?


correct

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: ozric
Quote:
It can't get much simpler. 20% flat tax on every purchase, every day, everywhere. The only way the governments get more money is to help people make more and encourage them to spend more.


Flat sales tax for everyone is the best way to do it, but ...

There's a lot of money and power involved in carving out exemptions/loopholes in the existing tax system. The people involved will never give up that power. I remember when H&R Block testified before congress that people would not want a simple tax system. Of course they would say that, they make a killing preparing taxes for people as a result of complicated tax law.


Not only that but there's a question of "fairness". Right or wrong, someone always complains about how their money gets spent. To make up an easily shot down argument, look at how property taxes are used to pay for schools ("but I haven't had a kid in school in twenty years!") or on roads ("I'm too green to own a car!") or on bicycle paths ("bicyclist scum!"). Point of use taxes can target the actual users while not taxing non-users--think toll roads, or sin tax on booze and tobacco. [Not that I'm arguing for any given tax scheme.]

In the end our taxes are screwed up because it's too hard to get ten people to agree on anything--let alone a few million.

 

[SeaJay]

Cash will once again be king amongst the smaller service businesses. Several I deal with offer discounts for cash. Presumably for them to bypass sales and other taxes.

 

[zorobabel]

Originally Posted By: bubbatime

Those things should be supported by tourist purchases (via sales tax) and low income folks that don't own property (via sales tax).

The lower income spectrum uses the majority of tax dollars, yet pays the least in. A sales tax is payed by everyone, rich, poor, and tourist from out of the area.


The low income folks that don't own property have to rent and the landlords pass the property tax onto the renter. IMO low income people pay the most sales tax - as a percentage, since they don't have any savings and barely make ends meet.

 

[redbone3]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: redbone3
What a mess this is going to be. Imagine the software needed to keep track of all the states with sales tax, not to mention additional sales taxes from various counties and cities that are tacked on. Here, in Nevada, every county has a sales tax (small) that is added to the state sales tax. Makes selling over the internet (or telephone) an accounting nightmare.



It's really not that hard to write software for this-there will be "canned software" for small Internet businesses to purchase that don't have their own I.T. Department-that will handle that task. As a matter of fact-it may be a contracted out service-send your files to so and so-they will send the taxes out.

If such software exists, at a reasonable cost, I have never found it.


Not unlike the guy that does your taxes at tax time.

 

[Pablo]

The front end (collecting) software indeed may not be that hard, in fact, it exists. I use Alavara for one of my companies - nothing to do with Amsoil so keep your guns holstered. It just costs $, so now I need to do a BUNCH more areas, cities, counties...... The tougher part will be writing checks to up to 47 states. Not sure where Montana and Alaska will end up. BUT......it's not settled yet...........

Quote:
The law specifically protects small businesses from collecting sales taxes if they have less than $100,000 in sales or fewer than 200 transactions in the state.


Note this is the SD law.......not some universal law. It will get interesting.

 

[raytseng]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/21/avalara-...line-sales.html

you guys should've gotten into this.

 

[daves87rs]

Well, they have to prepare for the Dow crash somehow...

Will help them still bring in some cash when the B&M continues to crash and people start buying less.....

 

[Triple_Se7en]

I hope this move helps the major brick and mortar stores stay open for business.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: supton


Not only that but there's a question of "fairness". Right or wrong, someone always complains about how their money gets spent. To make up an easily shot down argument, look at how property taxes are used to pay for schools ("but I haven't had a kid in school in twenty years!") or on roads ("I'm too green to own a car!") or on bicycle paths ("bicyclist scum!"). Point of use taxes can target the actual users while not taxing non-users--think toll roads, or sin tax on booze and tobacco. [Not that I'm arguing for any given tax scheme.]

In the end our taxes are screwed up because it's too hard to get ten people to agree on anything--let alone a few million.


Think of all the people paid under the table that still have to eat and put gas in their cars. Sales/Use taxes are often the hardest to elude. This internet/mail order loophole has been around for a generation (plus!) and we've finally "noticed" it.

As I've gotten older I don't mind the school tax as much-- look at all the idiots around, do you want them any dumber? We just had a local election and the school board members ran unopposed, so that would be a good jumping-in point for the cynics who'd claim the school system would just "waste more money". We benefit from better educated doctors, mechanics, tradespeople who make more accurate diagnoses and do the job right the first time.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
The front end (collecting) software indeed may not be that hard, in fact, it exists. I use Alavara for one of my companies - nothing to do with Amsoil so keep your guns holstered. It just costs $, so now I need to do a BUNCH more areas, cities, counties...... The tougher part will be writing checks to up to 47 states. Not sure where Montana and Alaska will end up. BUT......it's not settled yet...........

Quote:
The law specifically protects small businesses from collecting sales taxes if they have less than $100,000 in sales or fewer than 200 transactions in the state.


Note this is the SD law.......not some universal law. It will get interesting.


My thought right away is writing a cloud service to handle the taxes and payments.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: redbone3
Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: redbone3
What a mess this is going to be. Imagine the software needed to keep track of all the states with sales tax, not to mention additional sales taxes from various counties and cities that are tacked on. Here, in Nevada, every county has a sales tax (small) that is added to the state sales tax. Makes selling over the internet (or telephone) an accounting nightmare.



It's really not that hard to write software for this-there will be "canned software" for small Internet businesses to purchase that don't have their own I.T. Department-that will handle that task. As a matter of fact-it may be a contracted out service-send your files to so and so-they will send the taxes out.

If such software exists, at a reasonable cost, I have never found it.


Not unlike the guy that does your taxes at tax time.



I would think with this decision someone will write software for this purpose. Previously-it was only a handful of states.

AS it stands- it looks like there are services already-I XXXed out the name of the company to provide you this info-but not to mention them and run afoul of any BITOG sponsor rules.

XXXX is the leading technology for eCommerce companies of any size to manage sales tax and trusted by more than 10,000 businesses. Founded to help merchants and developers spend less time on sales tax and more time growing the businesses they love. We offer XXXX Reports, web-based reporting app that organizes sales tax data into return-ready reports by state; AutoFile, a service that automatically files your returns; and SmartCalcs API, a RESTful API powering real-time calculations.


Whether you want to spend what they charge is another story......

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted By: Triple_Se7en
I hope this move helps the major brick and mortar stores stay open for business.


Nope, might even speed up the demise a bit...

Wall Street really would like to see the middle man cut out of this, as the mark up would stay up and offer more profit. Plus, it puts less issues on the vendor (less returns) and cut offer more discounts to sucker folks in...Retail has two deadly issues:

1- Amazon-while it is taking a a chunk of of sales-it's not doing the damage people think it is. But you wouldn't know that by it's stock price-it's worth more than all of the Retailers COMBINED. So when you go against/compared against Amazon-you will always lose....

2- Capital companies- Look at Sears and Toys R US to see the future of retail. Buy em cheap, and cash them out. Make money-repeat. Pretty well cash stocked Companies like Bed, Bath and Beyond and Best Buy are going to be great "choices" to cash them out of business.....

Only two things will stop this- a nice Dow "crash", or most retailers simply go private. You only have to look at the success of places like Costco or Menard's to see how it is done.....

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Our governor stated in the Omaha World Herald this AM that he would like all sales tax collected from online sales to go property tax reduction. I'm all for that as property taxes in our state are way too high.