Hypothetically, who makes a good 5w-20 for a modern, non-turbo engine?
- Thread starter rbk777
- Start date
Family member of mine ran a Honda 4 cylinder on less than a quart for one whole week after a botched oil change. Don’t remember the exact mileage but it was way more than a few. Oil light was on and they just kept going which removed any liability by the shop. Engine threw a rod. It was an expensive lesson.
Triple_Se7en
$50 Site Donor 2024
You seem to be latched onto oil additives. Your opinions of Valvoline vs Napa prove it.
Try giving some consideration to your favorite motor oil's base oil. It's especially important in both the 0w20 vs 5w20 discussions and especially in your Valvoline vs Napa discussion yesterday. Do not try to compare the oil additives used-only. Do you even know the percentage of base oil in any typical motor oil quart bottle? Do you know all the groups of base oils? Do you know if the typical 5w20 has a lower or higher quality of base oil than 0w20?
On-top off of knowing all that, email or phone Valvoline and ask them if Napa is the same. We've done it here several times. No one at Valvoline has-yet to admit that Napa is Valvoline's equal. They only admit that some of the oil additives used draw similar comparisons.
If you need help in finding their email or phone number, PM me.
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Interesting, I didn't take it that way at all. He is asking a typical question for this site: Out of the oils I see on the shelf at the auto parts store or Walmart, which brand of XYZ viscosity is the best? He discounted high-priced boutique oils from his search which again, is quite normal but that doesn't indicate he is being cheap, just wanting to stay within the more normal-cost spread oils is all.Ya know, this whole thread is a contradiction at it's core.
Look at the thread title ... it implies he's looking for a "good" oil. OK - there are a massive slew of "good" oils out there, and for his revealed application, pretty much anything from a house brand on up would suffice quite well. Nothing but "normal" in his operational description.
Yet in the text of the initial post, he eludes to wanting the best, but not paying for the best ... (he makes no effort to define what "highest quality" means)
In summary, he wants a "good" oil, that is the "highest quality", for a non-premium (aka cheap) price, for his average application.
Typical BITOGer.
Yes sir, the magic unicorn lubricants are kept behind the counter; strictly for BITOG members only.
My Dad's transmission fluid funnel was old school....a hollowed out unicorn horn.
Not for years have they been available.
I am considering base oils & by your logic I should be using a 0w-20 Full Synthetic instead of a 15w-40 Conventional because the "base oils are, especially important, in the 0w".
And about the Napa thread... Anybody with a noggin knows that Valvoline is perfectly capable of making a 5w-40 European oil & why you or anyone would doubt that is beyond me. If you're doubting Valvoline then you should give them a call.
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Base oils by themselves don’t mean squat. It’s the complete, fully-formulated oil that matters (and receives the performance certifications).
Any base oil on its own will fail every performance-based test, so why would you base (pun intended) your choices on something that’s nearly immaterial?
The specs oil must meet are very stringent. I don't think you will see any difference in brands. Pick a color of a bottle and use it.
Anything with API SP.
True indeed…
Amongst the majors like Castrol, Chevron Havoline, Mobil Super, Pennzoil, Quaker State, Valvoline…. They all make excellent regular oils.
Even the minors like Warren Oil, Warren Distribution, Smithy's Supply, Martin Lubricants, Olympic, and Pinnacle… They all make very good oils themselves..
Only extremely bad oils from certain companies that are found in some gas stations in scattered places. Even in my area I have found some of those extremely bad oils in some gas stations right near me.
dnewton3
Staff member
For those who asked, no one has touched/changed the thread title; it's as it was originally posted. Nor have any of the OPs posts been changed.
Let's dissect the OP's main points of information he's put forth both in the title and subsequent posts:
- He has asked, "hypothetically"...
He's allowing theory to be considered, which is good, because I believe reality is not in his realm of consideration
- About a "good" 5w-20 oil
Doesn't define what "good" means, but this would imply "best" is not necessary
- For a "modern, non-turbo" engine
Later described to be a Toyota 2.5L, typically renowned for their longevity
- Using it in a normal (non-severe) application
No mention of racing, taxi service, etc
- For a max of 5k mile OCIs
Probably well less than the OEM is going to indicate a change would be required
- Excluding "premium" oils which "cost a fortune"
Implying cost is an issue, but also not defining what "premium" means, or what the fiscal threshold is
- He wants the "highest quality" available
Doesn't define what this means to him; is it purity of the base stocks; add-pack; packaging cleanliness ... ?
But does not the statement of "highest quality" come off as another way to imply wanting the "best", which does not align with the initial quest of "good oil" in the title? Wanting something which is "good" (expressed in the title) is NOT the same as considering the "highest quality" in the post; they are contradictory statements. "Good" is not the same as best (akin to the "highest quality").
- He is planning on using PP or Castrol Edge, but wants to know if something is "better"
This is subjective, obviously, but given his constraints of not wanting a "premium" oil, he's pretty much at a pinnacle already ...
Further, if he's already stated he's excluding "premium brands", how is it that he's considering some of the more expensive synthetic products available off the shelf? Is that not ironic in it's hypocrisy already? Are we to assume that PP and Edge are not "premium" products by his definition? Should we infer that Mobil1 or Valvoline Euro are also not "premium" oil as well? Are we to assume that Amsoil, RP, RL, HPL are all the "premium" brands which are too expensive for him?
- All the above after alluding to "some on here" (Bitog) believing that a thinner 0w-20 is somehow "better" by "formulation" than a 5w-20
This raises an entire sub-topic revolving around "thin vs thinner" based on a perception that he's implie, but most here realize it is a farcical unicorn hunt.
IF (and I do mean "if" as a conditional word) he's serious and not trolling us, then we're faced with the typical BITOG conversation here; this is a thread about wants versus needs.
* What his brain seeks: the self-implied best oil he can afford to satisfy his compulsions while assuaging his wallet crying out for mercy
* What his engine and application require: any normal inexpensive house brand of oil
In short, he seeks something which is "higher quality" than PP or Edge, but doesn't want to pay for it, all while implying that a 0w is somehow better than a 5w by formulation. My take is that the OP's entire thread is based on some really poor assumptions and inadequate definitions with a fairly large dollop of contradiction thrown in for good measure. After being here a couple of years now, he's really checking off all the BITOG boxes.
Don't we owe him an honest answer here? We shouldn't be coddling his biases and contradictions of terms. If we respect him, we should be clear and concise ... tough love hurts sometimes.
He should use a house-brand API lube in either grade, and worry about something else. If he chooses to use a more expensive product, that's fine, but the effect will be felt in his wallet, not the crankcase.
Let's dissect the OP's main points of information he's put forth both in the title and subsequent posts:
- He has asked, "hypothetically"...
He's allowing theory to be considered, which is good, because I believe reality is not in his realm of consideration
- About a "good" 5w-20 oil
Doesn't define what "good" means, but this would imply "best" is not necessary
- For a "modern, non-turbo" engine
Later described to be a Toyota 2.5L, typically renowned for their longevity
- Using it in a normal (non-severe) application
No mention of racing, taxi service, etc
- For a max of 5k mile OCIs
Probably well less than the OEM is going to indicate a change would be required
- Excluding "premium" oils which "cost a fortune"
Implying cost is an issue, but also not defining what "premium" means, or what the fiscal threshold is
- He wants the "highest quality" available
Doesn't define what this means to him; is it purity of the base stocks; add-pack; packaging cleanliness ... ?
But does not the statement of "highest quality" come off as another way to imply wanting the "best", which does not align with the initial quest of "good oil" in the title? Wanting something which is "good" (expressed in the title) is NOT the same as considering the "highest quality" in the post; they are contradictory statements. "Good" is not the same as best (akin to the "highest quality").
- He is planning on using PP or Castrol Edge, but wants to know if something is "better"
This is subjective, obviously, but given his constraints of not wanting a "premium" oil, he's pretty much at a pinnacle already ...
Further, if he's already stated he's excluding "premium brands", how is it that he's considering some of the more expensive synthetic products available off the shelf? Is that not ironic in it's hypocrisy already? Are we to assume that PP and Edge are not "premium" products by his definition? Should we infer that Mobil1 or Valvoline Euro are also not "premium" oil as well? Are we to assume that Amsoil, RP, RL, HPL are all the "premium" brands which are too expensive for him?
- All the above after alluding to "some on here" (Bitog) believing that a thinner 0w-20 is somehow "better" by "formulation" than a 5w-20
This raises an entire sub-topic revolving around "thin vs thinner" based on a perception that he's implie, but most here realize it is a farcical unicorn hunt.
IF (and I do mean "if" as a conditional word) he's serious and not trolling us, then we're faced with the typical BITOG conversation here; this is a thread about wants versus needs.
* What his brain seeks: the self-implied best oil he can afford to satisfy his compulsions while assuaging his wallet crying out for mercy
* What his engine and application require: any normal inexpensive house brand of oil
In short, he seeks something which is "higher quality" than PP or Edge, but doesn't want to pay for it, all while implying that a 0w is somehow better than a 5w by formulation. My take is that the OP's entire thread is based on some really poor assumptions and inadequate definitions with a fairly large dollop of contradiction thrown in for good measure. After being here a couple of years now, he's really checking off all the BITOG boxes.
Don't we owe him an honest answer here? We shouldn't be coddling his biases and contradictions of terms. If we respect him, we should be clear and concise ... tough love hurts sometimes.
He should use a house-brand API lube in either grade, and worry about something else. If he chooses to use a more expensive product, that's fine, but the effect will be felt in his wallet, not the crankcase.
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- Joined
- Nov 19, 2023
- Messages
- 980
Where is the op?
Holy cow. A full dissertation including words I had to look up. Dude just ask a simple question which is pretty normal for an oil forum I thought.
The first rule of BITOG is.....the owner's manual and those that wrote it have no clue on what oil you should use.*
*except w/r to fuel type/ethanol content, on that subject they definately have it right.
List all the benefits he will gain from not following the owners manual in this application.
its actually Napa.
Its designed and manufactured exclusively for Napa... by valvoline.
Saying its valvoline makes it seem the same as actual valvoline oils.
We wouldnt call TGMO Mobil 1....
But in this case a NA 2.5 4 cylinder with short drains.. I am sure it would work ok.