Haha no. The dealer will not be able to determine the winter rating. It’s also allowed to slip one rating in use so good luck with that.
Even though only one grade is listed it’s still a recommendation not a requirement.
ACEA A3/B4 oils still relevant in 2024 for Turbo GDI 'High performance' Engines? - Hyundai ElantraN
- Thread starter ylk1
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Even though only one grade is listed it’s still a recommendation not a requirement.
It CANNOT carry SP! There is a limit on phosphorus amount and A3 XW30 oils have higher Phosphorus content. Just bcs. it is API SL doesn’t mean it is outdated! Castrol Edge 0W30 has BMW LL01 approval which was updated last time in 2022. They are as current as it gets. Also, high ZDDP content is better in mitigating LSPI than low calcium. We discussed that numerous times here.
Right!
Good to know that Castrol got the updated to SP too. I haven't seen updated VOA for 0w30 here.
It's just that M1 FS 5w-30 carries the label 'confirms to API SP Engine test requirements'
Castrol 0W30 A3 is not SP, it is SL! API is irrelevant in Euro approvals. They are far more stringent than API.
Ah, I misread your statement that it's updated for BMW LL01.
Yeah, I see that the forum has extensively discussed LSPI topic and ZDDP's effects on it.
I think that even with high ZDDP, you need new detergent formulation to clear API SP. Not sure if Castrol does this.
Comparing just Engine test requirements:
ACEA A3/B4:
API SP:
The valvetrain wear test limits in API SP are actually tougher than ACEA A3/B4.
For a XW-30 oil to pass both API SP and ACEA A3/B4, the oil needs to pass additional LSPI/Chain elongation tests in API SP to get the label "meets API SP Engine tests requirements". (not the starburst logo)
This was already discussed at https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...-sp-rc-ilsac-gf-6-and-acea-2021-specs.362023/
I am sure most ACEA A3/B4 oils would easily ace the LSPI/Chain elongation tests if they have the re-formulated detergent pack. (Low Calcium etc..). I just wanted to pick an oil which has API SP test requirements label and an ACEA A3/B4/C3
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Have you compiled a list of oils that meet both certifications?
Absolutely irrelevant! You want MB229.5, BMW LL01, VW 502.00 etc. Those approvals FAR exceed anything API.
What is even this thread about 
Plenty of newly formulated ACEA oils meet or exceed API SP
Just a question of how new bottle you will get in the stores.
Plenty of newly formulated ACEA oils meet or exceed API SP
Just a question of how new bottle you will get in the stores.
Do you have any really low budget ACEA oils without any other manufacturer approvals in U.S?
Nope, as you know, ACEA is just a starting point for manufacturers. But, I am not sure OP knows that.
What is even this thread about
Plenty of newly formulated ACEA oils meet or exceed API SP
Just a question of how new bottle you will get in the stores.
The problem is there aren't many XW-30 updated ACEA 'A3' formulations in US
I've google for VOA/UOA on the oils below.
Let me know if you know any.
New 'SP' detergent formulation (Calcium PPM <1800 ):
Mobil1 5W-30 FS
Old detergent formulation:
BMW TwinPower Turbo 5W-30 LL-01
Castrol EDGE Euro 0W-30 A3/B4 --> I like this oil a lot. Lot of PAO
Castrol EDGE Euro 5W-30 A3/B4
Pennzoil Euro 5W-30
Pennzoil Euro AV 5W-30
LiquiMoly Special Tec LL SAE 5W-30
Valvoline Euro 5W-30
Motul 8100 X-CESS 5W-30
You can clearly see that vanilla ACEA A3 doesn't have any test that counts 'LSPI' events unlike API SP/ACEA A7
Daimler 229.5 does have an LSPI test but the specs are unclear. All the oils above have 229.5 approval
I am not debating which OE has the best approval. I said, I would like to use the best available formulation. A3 + 'SP' compatible detergent.
If you read a lot of STLE/Tribology research, the consensus is clear about calcium being a factor in LSPI.
You are right that ZDDP negates LSPI but only when present in very high quantities (not feasible in PCMO)
LSPI seems to be super-overhyped… we’ve had the discussion here and so far the consensus is that not one member on here has personal or provable 3rd-party knowledge of even just one instance of engine failure due to LSPI (unless they don’t want to be THAT guy, lol!).
Moly is also an attenuator of risk, and so are lower-volatility base oils.
Very high VI oils are also historically poor performers on Noack testing, which means more oil vapors entering the combustion chamber, and hence a contributor to conditions favorable for LSPI.
In the European section, you have numerous posts that list MB testing requirements.
You can actually go ACEA C3 that has MB229.52 approval (Mobil1 ESP 0/5W30) that does have LSPI test.
Generally, European manufacturers do not have LSPI issues in engines. LSPI is product of sloppy engineering, lower calcium is just band aid. All BMW approvals have more stringent timing chain tests, MB is generally considered as gold standard bcs. overall testing requirements.
If you want really good oil or best off-the-shelf oil, you go with Euro-approved stuff. Otherwise, you are chasing your own tail with this API vanilla stuff.
