How often should I replace Oil Filter?
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Originally Posted By: bbhero
Weld that badboy on there. Make that a permanent "fixture" on that motor
Easy now. You're getting the multiple OCI filter users excited!
Weld that badboy on there. Make that a permanent "fixture" on that motor
Easy now. You're getting the multiple OCI filter users excited!
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
They don't even state what type of "study" this is. The fact that it doesn't even go on for 80 minutes doesn't really relate to an engine operating in a car. They've made assumptions. What are they? What's the time lapse approximation they used? Maybe they tossed particulates/dirt/soot/sand into the tank to "simulate" engine oil filter loading up. May or may not be realistic. Their graph does show increasing efficiency as the filter loads up and yet again later in life. No reference to d/p either which is the most critical factor. What if d/p barely increased as the filter loaded up at 55-75 min? We don't know. This study is incomplete and missing important information. If the filter itself is not the flow limiting component of the oiling system, it could indeed load up quite heavily before flow becomes too low for safe engine operation...or the filter goes into bypass.
An air filter once near clogged, will allow little flow. At some point, flow would be near zero and your engine will be running like $#!@.
They don't even state what type of "study" this is. The fact that it doesn't even go on for 80 minutes doesn't really relate to an engine operating in a car. They've made assumptions. What are they? What's the time lapse approximation they used? Maybe they tossed particulates/dirt/soot/sand into the tank to "simulate" engine oil filter loading up. May or may not be realistic. Their graph does show increasing efficiency as the filter loads up and yet again later in life. No reference to d/p either which is the most critical factor. What if d/p barely increased as the filter loaded up at 55-75 min? We don't know. This study is incomplete and missing important information. If the filter itself is not the flow limiting component of the oiling system, it could indeed load up quite heavily before flow becomes too low for safe engine operation...or the filter goes into bypass.
An air filter once near clogged, will allow little flow. At some point, flow would be near zero and your engine will be running like $#!@.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
They don't even state what type of "study" this is. The fact that it doesn't even go on for 80 minutes doesn't really relate to an engine operating in a car. They've made assumptions. What are they? What's the time lapse approximation they used? Maybe they tossed particulates/dirt/soot/sand into the tank to "simulate" engine oil filter loading up. May or may not be realistic.
It looks like data taken during an ISO 4548-12 filter efficiency test. I don't think adding test dust at an accelerated rate skews the test much. If it did, the whole ISO committee wouldn't have came up with the ISO test and let it be used for the last ~20 years in the oil filter industry across the world if it was total garbage.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Their graph does show increasing efficiency as the filter loads up and yet again later in life.
Don't know where you're seeing an increase in efficiency, except at the end of life near 60 min and beyond when the filter basically starts clogging up to near 100%. You have to look at those line trends as a smooth line to see what the data it saying.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
No reference to d/p either which is the most critical factor. What if d/p barely increased as the filter loaded up at 55-75 min? We don't know. This study is incomplete and missing important information. If the filter itself is not the flow limiting component of the oiling system, it could indeed load up quite heavily before flow becomes too low for safe engine operation...or the filter goes into bypass.
The delta-p had to have increased pretty significantly from when it was new to when the efficiency skyrocketed up at the end of the test. But yes, I agree it would have been nice if they would have also graphed the delta-p. The whole reason for the filter's bypass valve it to ensure that the engine doesn't get starved of oil when the filter clogs to a certain level of delta-p.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
An air filter once near clogged, will allow little flow. At some point, flow would be near zero and your engine will be running like $#!@.
Yep, just like where this oil filter gets clogged up enough to where the bypass valve would open. Bottom line is you don't want to run a filter to the point of total clogging. And IMO it's not accurate to say "oil filters get more efficient with use". I've never seen any technical data that shows an oil filter gets more efficient with use ... I think that's just a "feeling" that everyone around here goes with because they think that makes sense. But as seen in this test by Purolator/Mann+Hummel that's not always the case, it at all the case.
And as I mentioned earlier, knowing how they take data and calculate the oil filter efficiency from the ISO test, I'll always try to use the most efficiently rated filters because it means their media doesn't behave as drastically as seen in this graph.
Note that the filter in this graph started at an efficiency of about 90% @ 20 microns, but ended at about 60% @ 20 microns when nearly fully loaded. So the average that is reported in the ISO 4548-12 test would be 75% @ 20 microns.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
They don't even state what type of "study" this is. The fact that it doesn't even go on for 80 minutes doesn't really relate to an engine operating in a car. They've made assumptions. What are they? What's the time lapse approximation they used? Maybe they tossed particulates/dirt/soot/sand into the tank to "simulate" engine oil filter loading up. May or may not be realistic.
It looks like data taken during an ISO 4548-12 filter efficiency test. I don't think adding test dust at an accelerated rate skews the test much. If it did, the whole ISO committee wouldn't have came up with the ISO test and let it be used for the last ~20 years in the oil filter industry across the world if it was total garbage.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Their graph does show increasing efficiency as the filter loads up and yet again later in life.
Don't know where you're seeing an increase in efficiency, except at the end of life near 60 min and beyond when the filter basically starts clogging up to near 100%. You have to look at those line trends as a smooth line to see what the data it saying.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
No reference to d/p either which is the most critical factor. What if d/p barely increased as the filter loaded up at 55-75 min? We don't know. This study is incomplete and missing important information. If the filter itself is not the flow limiting component of the oiling system, it could indeed load up quite heavily before flow becomes too low for safe engine operation...or the filter goes into bypass.
The delta-p had to have increased pretty significantly from when it was new to when the efficiency skyrocketed up at the end of the test. But yes, I agree it would have been nice if they would have also graphed the delta-p. The whole reason for the filter's bypass valve it to ensure that the engine doesn't get starved of oil when the filter clogs to a certain level of delta-p.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
An air filter once near clogged, will allow little flow. At some point, flow would be near zero and your engine will be running like $#!@.
Yep, just like where this oil filter gets clogged up enough to where the bypass valve would open. Bottom line is you don't want to run a filter to the point of total clogging. And IMO it's not accurate to say "oil filters get more efficient with use". I've never seen any technical data that shows an oil filter gets more efficient with use ... I think that's just a "feeling" that everyone around here goes with because they think that makes sense. But as seen in this test by Purolator/Mann+Hummel that's not always the case, it at all the case.
And as I mentioned earlier, knowing how they take data and calculate the oil filter efficiency from the ISO test, I'll always try to use the most efficiently rated filters because it means their media doesn't behave as drastically as seen in this graph.
Note that the filter in this graph started at an efficiency of about 90% @ 20 microns, but ended at about 60% @ 20 microns when nearly fully loaded. So the average that is reported in the ISO 4548-12 test would be 75% @ 20 microns.
My personal preference to change filter more often when the car is still new, relatively not broken in. Because at this point the engine may shed micro detritus from various moving parts. After 30 to 50k miles I'd stick to once a year replacement. If you're planning to hold onto the car for very long time you may consider adding a high quality remote dual oil filter .
Originally Posted By: jongies3
Whenever you change the oil. One filter, one OCI is a good motto to follow! No need to complicate things or risk damage to the engine over something as cheap and easy to come by as a filter!
This. You don't have and extra ten-spot for a filter? You don't like changing the filter? Same concept as changing a light bulb. The car is already on ramps, jack stands, rack, air bag etc. anyway. You don't want to explain to your lady that she's sitting beside the road because you saved a few bucks and ten minutes by letting the filter ride one more oci? Is it really that cool to cut open you filter after 20k so that you can report that it's only 3/4 as sludgy as you thought it would be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQxT7ab07jk
Whenever you change the oil. One filter, one OCI is a good motto to follow! No need to complicate things or risk damage to the engine over something as cheap and easy to come by as a filter!
This. You don't have and extra ten-spot for a filter? You don't like changing the filter? Same concept as changing a light bulb. The car is already on ramps, jack stands, rack, air bag etc. anyway. You don't want to explain to your lady that she's sitting beside the road because you saved a few bucks and ten minutes by letting the filter ride one more oci? Is it really that cool to cut open you filter after 20k so that you can report that it's only 3/4 as sludgy as you thought it would be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQxT7ab07jk
Originally Posted By: TheLawnRanger
Originally Posted By: jongies3
Whenever you change the oil. One filter, one OCI is a good motto to follow! No need to complicate things or risk damage to the engine over something as cheap and easy to come by as a filter!
This. You don't have and extra ten-spot for a filter? You don't like changing the filter? Same concept as changing a light bulb. The car is already on ramps, jack stands, rack, air bag etc. anyway. You don't want to explain to your lady that she's sitting beside the road because you saved a few bucks and ten minutes by letting the filter ride one more oci? Is it really that cool to cut open you filter after 20k so that you can report that it's only 3/4 as sludgy as you thought it would be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQxT7ab07jk
Bingo , nailed it right on the head !
Originally Posted By: jongies3
Whenever you change the oil. One filter, one OCI is a good motto to follow! No need to complicate things or risk damage to the engine over something as cheap and easy to come by as a filter!
This. You don't have and extra ten-spot for a filter? You don't like changing the filter? Same concept as changing a light bulb. The car is already on ramps, jack stands, rack, air bag etc. anyway. You don't want to explain to your lady that she's sitting beside the road because you saved a few bucks and ten minutes by letting the filter ride one more oci? Is it really that cool to cut open you filter after 20k so that you can report that it's only 3/4 as sludgy as you thought it would be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQxT7ab07jk
Bingo , nailed it right on the head !
The smile on my face is so big that if you were to cut the edge of my mouth the smile would grow from ear to ear!
FINALLY! My way of thinking about an oil filter and how it should be PROPERLY replaced!
Carry on my knowledgeable fellow members.
Carry on my knowledgeable fellow members.
Patman
Staff member
Originally Posted By: TheLawnRanger
This. You don't have and extra ten-spot for a filter? You don't like changing the filter? Same concept as changing a light bulb. The car is already on ramps, jack stands, rack, air bag etc. anyway. You don't want to explain to your lady that she's sitting beside the road because you saved a few bucks and ten minutes by letting the filter ride one more oci?
That's a little bit of a stretch though, engines aren't dying left right and center because an oil filter is left on too long. I look at it this way, let's say I'm doing 5 or 6k intervals and I'm changing my oil filter every other oil change. How is that any different than the person who does 10-12k oil changes and changes their filter each time? The filter is still in service for the same length of time either way. I don't see too many people on here advocating changing the filter halfway through an interval.
For me it's not about saving money, I just find changing the oil filter on my wife's BMW and on my Honda to be a messy PITA. And I'm not doing super long intervals on either car anymore, so the filters on those cars can easily handle two intervals. I'm not going to run two intervals on the same filter on my Corvette though, at least not while it's under warranty anyhow, as that could be asking for trouble if I need to make a warranty claim.
Also, Honda seems to be fine with the idea of changing the oil filter every other change, it says so in my 2006 owner's manual. They've obviously done some testing to determine that practise is perfectly safe.
This. You don't have and extra ten-spot for a filter? You don't like changing the filter? Same concept as changing a light bulb. The car is already on ramps, jack stands, rack, air bag etc. anyway. You don't want to explain to your lady that she's sitting beside the road because you saved a few bucks and ten minutes by letting the filter ride one more oci?
That's a little bit of a stretch though, engines aren't dying left right and center because an oil filter is left on too long. I look at it this way, let's say I'm doing 5 or 6k intervals and I'm changing my oil filter every other oil change. How is that any different than the person who does 10-12k oil changes and changes their filter each time? The filter is still in service for the same length of time either way. I don't see too many people on here advocating changing the filter halfway through an interval.
For me it's not about saving money, I just find changing the oil filter on my wife's BMW and on my Honda to be a messy PITA. And I'm not doing super long intervals on either car anymore, so the filters on those cars can easily handle two intervals. I'm not going to run two intervals on the same filter on my Corvette though, at least not while it's under warranty anyhow, as that could be asking for trouble if I need to make a warranty claim.
Also, Honda seems to be fine with the idea of changing the oil filter every other change, it says so in my 2006 owner's manual. They've obviously done some testing to determine that practise is perfectly safe.
Originally Posted By: Patman
... engines aren't dying left right and center because an oil filter is left on too long. I look at it this way, let's say I'm doing 5 or 6k intervals and I'm changing my oil filter every other oil change. How is that any different than the person who does 10-12k oil changes and changes their filter each time? The filter is still in service for the same length of time either way.
Also, Honda seems to be fine with the idea of changing the oil filter every other change, it says so in my 2006 owner's manual. They've obviously done some testing to determine that practise is perfectly safe.
Pure logic doesn't always fly around here.
Nothing wrong with leaving a filter on if the total use mileage is still under it's rated/useful life.
... engines aren't dying left right and center because an oil filter is left on too long. I look at it this way, let's say I'm doing 5 or 6k intervals and I'm changing my oil filter every other oil change. How is that any different than the person who does 10-12k oil changes and changes their filter each time? The filter is still in service for the same length of time either way.
Also, Honda seems to be fine with the idea of changing the oil filter every other change, it says so in my 2006 owner's manual. They've obviously done some testing to determine that practise is perfectly safe.
Pure logic doesn't always fly around here.
Maybe they sell 4 point lifts for home garages? Under warranty good to do as they say. My Chev Volt is very low in front, but it will go up these plastic Rhino ramps I have. The only thing is then the car isn't level. I guess if the drain plug is to the rear it's even better to be up in front. Or is it, maybe the engine doesn't drain right. Changing the filter on time is like insurance rather than necessity in this case IMO.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
... It looks like data taken during an ISO 4548-12 filter efficiency test. I don't think adding test dust at an accelerated rate skews the test much. ...
Don't know where you're seeing an increase in efficiency, except at the end of life near 60 min and beyond when the filter basically starts clogging up to near 100%. ...
Note that the filter in this graph started at an efficiency of about 90% @ 20 microns, but ended at about 60% @ 20 microns when nearly fully loaded. ...
I'll buy your comment about the accelerated rate of dust addition. However, such data does very little to settle the raging how-often-should-I-replace arguments until we get a clue how many miles of normal use of a healthy engine corresponds to each minute of the accelerated dust addition. Until then, we're fighting over superstitions, unsubstantiated opinions, and anecdotes.
It would also help to know whether the distribution of particle sizes in the test dust resembles real-world conditions.
... It looks like data taken during an ISO 4548-12 filter efficiency test. I don't think adding test dust at an accelerated rate skews the test much. ...
Don't know where you're seeing an increase in efficiency, except at the end of life near 60 min and beyond when the filter basically starts clogging up to near 100%. ...
Note that the filter in this graph started at an efficiency of about 90% @ 20 microns, but ended at about 60% @ 20 microns when nearly fully loaded. ...
I'll buy your comment about the accelerated rate of dust addition. However, such data does very little to settle the raging how-often-should-I-replace arguments until we get a clue how many miles of normal use of a healthy engine corresponds to each minute of the accelerated dust addition. Until then, we're fighting over superstitions, unsubstantiated opinions, and anecdotes.
It would also help to know whether the distribution of particle sizes in the test dust resembles real-world conditions.
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