Help Me Find an Urban Commuter

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Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by NewEnglander
Originally Posted by madRiver
Avalon/Camry are luxury car compared to a Corolla. I would not bother with Corolla. I believe the only advantage of Corolla is price new and slight MPG improvements.

That's been my assessment. My bigger question is how tricky is the Avalon to navigate around a city? It may seem an odd question but my Rio is 159 inches or thereabouts in length versus the 190+ on an Avalon. A difference to be sure but probably a challenge more theoretical than practical.

We took a 20+ passenger van through Boston with no issues when I was a kid...?
CX5 is 179.1". Chrysler 300 is 198.6".

Fair enough. This is mostly me getting used to the idea of driving a larger vehicle.
 
Originally Posted by littlehulkster
Originally Posted by fdcg27

The Honda hybrid system is also less complicated than Toyota's Rube Goldberg setup, so less pieces to fail.


I mean, you say that, but Toyota's system has proven to be outstandingly reliable over about 20 years of use and god even knows how many miles.

That the Prius is now very common in taxi service should serve as a good testament to the car's reliability. CR has rated it as the best, or near the best, for almost every year it's been sold, too.

That's not to say the Honda system is bad, but Toyota has more than proven their hybrid technology.



I'm aware that Toyota's hybrid system has performed admirably in actual use over the years.
Honda had the insight to determine that with a powerful electric motor in play, there's really no need for anything more than a clutch pack and a reduction drive to allow the gas engine to drive the wheels.
The Prius cabs I've seen and ridden in have been mostly confined to areas of persistently high fuel prices, like Cali.
IDK why fuel should be cheaper in San Juan than it is in LA, but that is the case.
 
Originally Posted by NewEnglander
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by NewEnglander
Originally Posted by madRiver
Avalon/Camry are luxury car compared to a Corolla. I would not bother with Corolla. I believe the only advantage of Corolla is price new and slight MPG improvements.

That's been my assessment. My bigger question is how tricky is the Avalon to navigate around a city? It may seem an odd question but my Rio is 159 inches or thereabouts in length versus the 190+ on an Avalon. A difference to be sure but probably a challenge more theoretical than practical.

We took a 20+ passenger van through Boston with no issues when I was a kid...?
CX5 is 179.1". Chrysler 300 is 198.6".

Fair enough. This is mostly me getting used to the idea of driving a larger vehicle.

The CX5 "drives small". Don't look at just length. You have to actually drive the car to get a sense of it.
 
Urban commuter and Avalon in the same sentence just doesn't sound right. I've owned two Avalon's and they're big luxurious interstate mile eaters. I second the Prius as the ideal commuter car.
 
Originally Posted by gman2304
Urban commuter and Avalon in the same sentence just doesn't sound right. I've owned two Avalon's and they're big luxurious interstate mile eaters. I second the Prius as the ideal commuter car.

That's my Vulcan logic on this too. Here's the rub: how does the Prius soak up nasty pavement? If I lived in a place that had beautiful roads it wouldn't be a question but urban Boston is feels closer to Ye Old New England versus the twenty-first century.
 
I have 4 Chrysler vehicles and granted they are not newer than a Ram 1500 with the hemi, and all but one have over 100k and the truck is at 207K and runs perfect no rattles no suspension issues. Tows my small 5th wheel. I also have 4 VW's and all are collector cars that have served me very well.
 
Parking?

My daughter loves her Buick Encore driving around Philly.

The title says urban commuter and smaller cars are better for that. CUV is easier to get in and out if your wife has health issues.

Kia Kona is supposed to be nice.
 
QUOTE- "Urban commuter and Avalon in the same sentence just doesn't sound right. I've owned two Avalon's and they're big luxurious interstate mile eaters. I second the Prius as the ideal commuter car."

2019 Avalon Hybrid- 43 mpg. built on same platform as Lexus ES350/ES300H at the same plant. A Avalon has 2 basic lines- One is XLE&LIMITED models, which are luxury soft ride The second is XSE&Touring which is a more spirited & sportier ride.. Both lines will give you a great ride in an urban pothole environment!
 
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by NewEnglander
Originally Posted by Skippy722
A newer Chrysler 300 with the v6 and 8 speed transmission is like driving a couch down the road. Super comfortable seats, nice quiet ride, decent fuel economy, Uconnect is awesome... just avoid the S trim, as those come with sport tuned suspension... firmer than regular but still pretty soft. Also available in AWD, which sits about an inch higher IIRC and has smaller wheels with a bit more tire.

This is one of the many reasons I love BITOG. This is something that I would never have considered unless someone pointed me in this direction. It sounds like a fascinating proposition and worth reading up on a bit more. Gracias mi amigo.


Keep in mind that it's a Chrysler/Fiat product, though, and plan accordingly. MSRP also goes for close to $50K if you option that particular vehicle out, as described above. I considered something like a Charger AWD with one of their lifetime bumper-to-bumper warranties to offset their typical ownership experience, but went with my CX5 instead. It's a better performer in the speed and handling department, and gets far better mpg, while offering much higher quality, higher ground clearance, and more storage utility with the "hatch"/CUV configuration. If you're looking at a Chrysler 300 AWD, I'd recommend checking out the CX5 Signature or GTR like I got. It's better in literally every way I can come up with to compare. I have slowly transitioned from cars to smaller SUV's, and the added utility has been very worth it for me.

*I owned a Chrysler once, against my friends recommendations and Consumer Reports and every other bit of data out there. Yes, they are just as poorly made out of just as low quality raw materials as the rumors suggest.


What year and vehicle did you buy? My 300 is a pleasant place to sit, no worse than anybody else's interiors this side of 50k base model MSRP. The caliber though... yeah, that's a sea of hard plastic.

My parents own a 2004 Grand Caravan (180k miles), a 2007 Caliber (155-160k), and a 2013 200 (50k). They've owned the Caliber and Van since new. My brother just traded his 2015 Dart in to get a 2018 Charger R/T Daytona. I've had a 2011 Durango, a 2012 Caliber, and now the 2016 300 and 2018 Grand Caravan. Of all those, my Durango was the least reliable. But I drove that thing like I stole it, because I was a dumb 20 year with a v8 AWD SUV. My parents Caliber still has the factory CVT fluid in it even.

Plus it just looks good, everyone compliments me on it
11.gif


4DCD0314-02C4-4EEE-9162-763D86609198.jpeg
 
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Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by NewEnglander
On the Avalon, I hear wonderfully comfortable - but is it too big and too thirsty?


Not really thirsty at all.

For Lexus quality and comfort at Camry price, it's really hard to beat an Avalon.


Yes-the Japanese Buick!
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by NewEnglander
Originally Posted by Skippy722
A newer Chrysler 300 with the v6 and 8 speed transmission is like driving a couch down the road. Super comfortable seats, nice quiet ride, decent fuel economy, Uconnect is awesome... just avoid the S trim, as those come with sport tuned suspension... firmer than regular but still pretty soft. Also available in AWD, which sits about an inch higher IIRC and has smaller wheels with a bit more tire.

This is one of the many reasons I love BITOG. This is something that I would never have considered unless someone pointed me in this direction. It sounds like a fascinating proposition and worth reading up on a bit more. Gracias mi amigo.


Keep in mind that it's a Chrysler/Fiat product, though, and plan accordingly. MSRP also goes for close to $50K if you option that particular vehicle out, as described above. I considered something like a Charger AWD with one of their lifetime bumper-to-bumper warranties to offset their typical ownership experience, but went with my CX5 instead. It's a better performer in the speed and handling department, and gets far better mpg, while offering much higher quality, higher ground clearance, and more storage utility with the "hatch"/CUV configuration. If you're looking at a Chrysler 300 AWD, I'd recommend checking out the CX5 Signature or GTR like I got. It's better in literally every way I can come up with to compare. I have slowly transitioned from cars to smaller SUV's, and the added utility has been very worth it for me.

*I owned a Chrysler once, against my friends recommendations and Consumer Reports and every other bit of data out there. Yes, they are just as poorly made out of just as low quality raw materials as the rumors suggest.


What year and vehicle did you buy? My 300 is a pleasant place to sit, no worse than anybody else's interiors this side of 50k base model MSRP. The caliber though... yeah, that's a sea of hard plastic.

My parents own a 2004 Grand Caravan (180k miles), a 2007 Caliber (155-160k), and a 2013 200 (50k). They've owned the Caliber and Van since new. My brother just traded his 2015 Dart in to get a 2018 Charger R/T Daytona. I've had a 2011 Durango, a 2012 Caliber, and now the 2016 300 and 2018 Grand Caravan. Of all those, my Durango was the least reliable. But I drove that thing like I stole it, because I was a dumb 20 year with a v8 AWD SUV. My parents Caliber still has the factory CVT fluid in it even.

Plus it just looks good, everyone compliments me on it
11.gif


I had a 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, hemi and qd2. It was the nicest POS Ive ever driven. Total junk, but comfy, powerful for class, and well styled.

My friends Mom has owned several newer (2010+) Dodge Ram trucks. Transmissions die around 50-60k miles in or so. Co worker had the same happen with hers (2012-2013?).

Another friends mom had a Caravan around the 2004 timeframe. Transmission no [censored], literslly fell out in the driveway a few weeks into ownership, lol! Dealer took it back and never again with Chrysler for them.

Noone I know in real life except 1 person has had anything good to say.

Chrysler puts all their money into their comfort and interior features, and they are nice, but there is a reason they are inexpensive vs. Their feature list. Its because they robbed Peter to pay Paul so to speak, to make them nice. The Peter they robbed is material quality, and engineering and qa/qc.

When I worked st a Ford dealer, we didnt give people anytbing for a chrysler, and we made tons when we sold them. They hold no value even though they have tons of features. The reason is obvious.

Good for a lease. BAD for ownership.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by willbur
Originally Posted by Linctex
Originally Posted by NewEnglander
On the Avalon, I hear wonderfully comfortable - but is it too big and too thirsty?


Not really thirsty at all.

For Lexus quality and comfort at Camry price, it's really hard to beat an Avalon.


Yes-the Japanese Buick!

My grandpa went from Buick to Avalons. He had to replace buick transmissions around 120k miles like clockwork. His Avalons last longer. He has 2 right now. One has 370k miles or so with no issues, and his newer one has a bit over 100k with no issues.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6

I had a 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, hemi and qd2. It was the nicest POS Ive ever driven. Total junk, but comfy, powerful for class, and well styled.

My friends Mom has owned several newer (2010+) Dodge Ram trucks. Transmissions die around 50-60k miles in or so. Co worker had the same happen with hers (2012-2013?).

Another friends mom had a Caravan around the 2004 timeframe. Transmission no [censored], literslly fell out in the driveway a few weeks into ownership, lol! Dealer took it back and never again with Chrysler for them.

Noone I know in real life except 1 person has had anything good to say.

Chrysler puts all their money into their comfort and interior features, and they are nice, but there is a reason they are inexpensive vs. Their feature list. Its because they robbed Peter to pay Paul so to speak, to make them nice. The Peter they robbed is material quality, and engineering and qa/qc.

When I worked st a Ford dealer, we didnt give people anytbing for a chrysler, and we made tons when we sold them. They hold no value even though they have tons of features. The reason is obvious.

Good for a lease. BAD for ownership.


Yeah, the Daimler era wasn't the best. Mercedes bought them, and they both went downhill. The 545rfe/65re transmissions suck. My Durango had one, never had an actual issue with it it was just a poorly geared transmission. They now use the ZF designed (v6) or ZF built (v8) transmissions, way way better.

Paid 23k for our 300 with 42k. Window sticker MSRP was 40k. I'm perfectly okay with that. Only had it 11 months, and put a little over 10k on it, but so far it's been great at 53,600.

If they do away with RWD, I will be going to Mazda or Audi.
 
Originally Posted by Skippy722
Originally Posted by Ws6

I had a 2010 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited, hemi and qd2. It was the nicest POS Ive ever driven. Total junk, but comfy, powerful for class, and well styled.

My friends Mom has owned several newer (2010+) Dodge Ram trucks. Transmissions die around 50-60k miles in or so. Co worker had the same happen with hers (2012-2013?).

Another friends mom had a Caravan around the 2004 timeframe. Transmission no [censored], literslly fell out in the driveway a few weeks into ownership, lol! Dealer took it back and never again with Chrysler for them.

Noone I know in real life except 1 person has had anything good to say.

Chrysler puts all their money into their comfort and interior features, and they are nice, but there is a reason they are inexpensive vs. Their feature list. Its because they robbed Peter to pay Paul so to speak, to make them nice. The Peter they robbed is material quality, and engineering and qa/qc.

When I worked st a Ford dealer, we didnt give people anytbing for a chrysler, and we made tons when we sold them. They hold no value even though they have tons of features. The reason is obvious.

Good for a lease. BAD for ownership.


Yeah, the Daimler era wasn't the best. Mercedes bought them, and they both went downhill. The 545rfe/65re transmissions suck. My Durango had one, never had an actual issue with it it was just a poorly geared transmission. They now use the ZF designed (v6) or ZF built (v8) transmissions, way way better.

Paid 23k for our 300 with 42k. Window sticker MSRP was 40k. I'm perfectly okay with that. Only had it 11 months, and put a little over 10k on it, but so far it's been great at 53,600.

If they do away with RWD, I will be going to Mazda or Audi.

I hope it continues to work well. I have not heard the zf being any better. Just more gears. Zf is very "meh" no kstter who uses it.

http://www.lemonlaw.com/wordpress/z...eep-fiat-land-rover-honda-acura-drivers/

The ZF8 is better, but still not up to standard. Id get the lifetime warranty on that item.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6


The ZF8 is better, but still not up to standard. Id get the lifetime warranty on that item.


?

The 8HP is one of the best regarded transmissions in production and used by numerous marques in very high performance applications. The 9spd has been problematic, particularly in early applications, but the 8spd has been excellent.

We've discussed this gearbox ad nauseam on this site since it first made its appearance.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6


The ZF8 is better, but still not up to standard. Id get the lifetime warranty on that item.


?

The 8HP is one of the best regarded transmissions in production and used by numerous marques in very high performance applications. The 9spd has been problematic, particularly in early applications, but the 8spd has been excellent.

We've discussed this gearbox ad nauseam on this site since it first made its appearance.

Yeah...about that...Chrysler/Fiat being the cheap trash they are, bought rights to the zf8hp so they could make their own ghetto version, the Torqueflight 8. They make them in South Carolina. Not made by ZF. Not from Germany. Not used by BMW or anyone else.

So why do you think Chrysler did this? Pride of ownership? Nah. They wanted to make a cheaper transmission so they could continue their tradition of cutting quality to save money to allow them nice interiors and features at lower prices. Wonder where they cut their costs on the trans...
 
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6


The ZF8 is better, but still not up to standard. Id get the lifetime warranty on that item.


?

The 8HP is one of the best regarded transmissions in production and used by numerous marques in very high performance applications. The 9spd has been problematic, particularly in early applications, but the 8spd has been excellent.

We've discussed this gearbox ad nauseam on this site since it first made its appearance.

Yeah...about that...Chrysler/Fiat being the cheap trash they are, bought rights to the zf8hp so they could make their own ghetto version, the Torqueflight 8. They make them in South Carolina. Not made by ZF. Not from Germany. Not used by BMW or anyone else.

So why do you think Chrysler did this? Pride of ownership? Nah. They wanted to make a cheaper transmission so they could continue their tradition of cutting quality to save money to allow them nice interiors and features at lower prices. Wonder where they cut their costs on the trans...


How about being able to offer a transmission available in a Rolls Royce and Bentley in a Dodge? So far, they've proven extremely reliable and durable in the FCA offerings.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6


The ZF8 is better, but still not up to standard. Id get the lifetime warranty on that item.


?

The 8HP is one of the best regarded transmissions in production and used by numerous marques in very high performance applications. The 9spd has been problematic, particularly in early applications, but the 8spd has been excellent.

We've discussed this gearbox ad nauseam on this site since it first made its appearance.

Yeah...about that...Chrysler/Fiat being the cheap trash they are, bought rights to the zf8hp so they could make their own ghetto version, the Torqueflight 8. They make them in South Carolina. Not made by ZF. Not from Germany. Not used by BMW or anyone else.

So why do you think Chrysler did this? Pride of ownership? Nah. They wanted to make a cheaper transmission so they could continue their tradition of cutting quality to save money to allow them nice interiors and features at lower prices. Wonder where they cut their costs on the trans...


So taking the same design, and manufacturing the version domestically that's designed for lower-output applications (behind the Pentastar) is a problem why? It's the same bloody transmission design, I'd hardly call it "ghetto", Jesus dude, talk about hyperbole. There's been no indication that the 845RE is any less durable, or even different from the 8HP45. The same goes for the 850RE/8HP50. Licensing the ability to produce the transmission themselves, from ZF, would be indeed done for cost savings measures, but that in no way even implies, let alone should leave someone to conclude, that they've "compromised" it somehow. That's seriously reaching.
 
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by OVERKILL
Originally Posted by Ws6


The ZF8 is better, but still not up to standard. Id get the lifetime warranty on that item.


?

The 8HP is one of the best regarded transmissions in production and used by numerous marques in very high performance applications. The 9spd has been problematic, particularly in early applications, but the 8spd has been excellent.

We've discussed this gearbox ad nauseam on this site since it first made its appearance.

Yeah...about that...Chrysler/Fiat being the cheap trash they are, bought rights to the zf8hp so they could make their own ghetto version, the Torqueflight 8. They make them in South Carolina. Not made by ZF. Not from Germany. Not used by BMW or anyone else.

So why do you think Chrysler did this? Pride of ownership? Nah. They wanted to make a cheaper transmission so they could continue their tradition of cutting quality to save money to allow them nice interiors and features at lower prices. Wonder where they cut their costs on the trans...


So taking the same design, and manufacturing the version domestically that's designed for lower-output applications (behind the Pentastar) is a problem why? It's the same bloody transmission design, I'd hardly call it "ghetto", Jesus dude, talk about hyperbole. There's been no indication that the 845RE is any less durable, or even different from the 8HP45. The same goes for the 850RE/8HP50. Licensing the ability to produce the transmission themselves, from ZF, would be indeed done for cost savings measures, but that in no way even implies, let alone should leave someone to conclude, that they've "compromised" it somehow. That's seriously reaching.


https://www.torquenews.com/106/chry...-ram-1500-models-over-transmission-risks

https://www.lemberglaw.com/2017-ram-1500-problems-complaints-lemon/

https://news.pickuptrucks.com/2016/12/dodge-ram-eight-speed-gear-shifters-under-investigation.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wheels.ca/top-ten/seven-shifty-transmissions-to-avoid/amp/
 
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